Fine not a tax

Quote:Testifying before Congress this morning, President Obama's acting budget director Jeffrey Zients directly undercut one of the administration's key legal defenses of its national health care law as it nears a hearing before the Supreme Court.

In a hearing of the House Budget Committee Rep. Scott Garrett, R-N.J., pressed Zients on whether the penalty that the health care law imposes on individuals who do not purchase health insurance constitutes a tax. Eventually, Zients said it did not.

But this directly contradicts one of the arguments the Obama administration is making before the Supreme Court in defense of the health care law, which is that the mandate is Constitutional because it's a tax and government has taxing power

So the OMB director says it's not a tax. After it was passed Obama himself swore up and down that it was not a tax. Now, when challenged in court, they argue it is a tax.

Is there any doubt that if a republican president were displaying this level of outright and incontrovertible lying that the media would be all over it? Yet they remain silent, like the good lap dogs they are.

The media, as well as the obama administration, count on Americans to be stupid.

The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

That's precious.

Now how bout you address the lies of Obama? Or do you even care?

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

There is a hugh difference between "I'm a failure of my own making. Give me all I desire" and "stop stealing from me".

(02-15-2012 04:14 PM)Ninerfan1 Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

That's precious.

Now how bout you address the lies of Obama? Or do you even care?

I don't think it's "media persecution" he's referring to. It's media bias. When they don't report on things that would damage the president because their leg shivers I wouldn't call it "persecution".

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

You do realize what groups play the card the most?

(02-15-2012 04:22 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

You do realize what groups play the card the most?

Libertarians?

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

Is it a tax? Or a fee? If it's a fee, it's unconstitutional. If it's a tax, Obama is lying his ass off about no one making under 200K paying a dime more in taxes. So, which is it? Is he a lying ass little b*tch? Or is he trying to push through unconstitutional legislation?

It's sorta both because it's part of the tax code. But it's not a tax because you don't owe anything for it if you comply.

And I don't believe the tax code even stipulates yet what the actual fee/tax/penalty is.

(02-15-2012 04:25 PM)Rebel Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 04:03 PM)AtlanticLeague Wrote:  The conservative "media persecution" line only appeals to other conservative "victims". It's just like any other group that constantly feels the need to remark on their ongoing state of victimization and discrimination.

Is it a tax? Or a fee? If it's a fee, it's unconstitutional. If it's a tax, Obama is lying his ass off about no one making under 200K paying a dime more in taxes. So, which is it? Is he a lying ass little b*tch? Or is he trying to push through unconstitutional legislation?

Except even if it's not a tax it can be constitutional under the Commerce Clause, as 2 of the 3 Court of Appeals circuits have found.

The tax/fee argument is a distinction without a difference. You could just tax everyone and give those with insurance a tax credit, and achieve the same result.

(02-15-2012 04:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's sorta both because it's part of the tax code. But it's not a tax because you don't owe anything for it if you comply.

And I don't believe the tax code even stipulates yet what the actual fee/tax/penalty is.

The version of Obama that is arguing before the Supreme Court disagrees with you. That version is saying it is a tax.

Logical truth. Something can't be A and not-A at the same time. It's either a tax, or it isn't.

And let's not pretend the GOP wasn't taking the opposite road.

To the public for PR purposes: IT'S A TAX! OBAMA WANTS TO TAX THE SH!T OUT OF YOU JUST LIKE THE TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRAT HE IS!

To the court for constitutionality purposes: IT'S A FEE NOT A TAX! SO IT'S NOT A USE OF CONGRESS' TAX AND SPEND POWERS!

They're just switching chairs.

(02-15-2012 04:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's sorta both because it's part of the tax code. But it's not a tax because you don't owe anything for it if you comply.

And I don't believe the tax code even stipulates yet what the actual fee/tax/penalty is.

If I don't buy anything I don't pay sales taxes... but a sales tax is still a tax!

(02-15-2012 05:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Except even if it's not a tax it can be constitutional under the Commerce Clause, as 2 of the 3 Court of Appeals circuits have found.

It's actually 2 of 4.

Court in Florida and court in Richmond have found it unconstituional. And the ruling in Michigan is so absurd as to be laughable.

(02-15-2012 05:10 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-15-2012 04:53 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  It's sorta both because it's part of the tax code. But it's not a tax because you don't owe anything for it if you comply.

And I don't believe the tax code even stipulates yet what the actual fee/tax/penalty is.

If I don't buy anything I don't pay sales taxes... but a sales tax is still a tax!

That's what's funny. The two courts that have ruled in Obamacare's favor have actually argued that inactivity is, in itself, activity. Because they say not doing something now will cause you to do something in the future, so they are calling it the act of inactivity.

Makes perfect sense huh?

As the union rep goon said in the great film Armed and Dangerous, SHUT UP AND SIGN THE ******* FORM!

(02-15-2012 05:08 PM)Max Power Wrote:  And let's not pretend the GOP wasn't taking the opposite road.

To the public for PR purposes: IT'S A TAX! OBAMA WANTS TO TAX THE SH!T OUT OF YOU JUST LIKE THE TAX AND SPEND DEMOCRAT HE IS!

To the court for constitutionality purposes: IT'S A FEE NOT A TAX! SO IT'S NOT A USE OF CONGRESS' TAX AND SPEND POWERS!

They're just switching chairs.

You can call it an ice cream sandwich if you want, but money is still leaving my pocket.

11/07/12 is going to be so f'n funny.

(02-15-2012 05:00 PM)Max Power Wrote:  Except even if it's not a tax it can be constitutional under the Commerce Clause, as 2 of the 3 Court of Appeals circuits have found.

Oh, being charged a fee just to breath is constitutional? Good luck with that one. Tell me "counselor", do you have case law to back that up? Any cases out there requiring you to pay a fee just to live? Post it.