A couple of things.

According to the UMASS contract they would need to provide 2 seasons notice plus the $2.5 million buy-out. I assume Temple's is the same. Isn't the Big East looking for a replacement in 2012? Not sure the CUSA timeline.

Second, no one knows what the new CUSA contract will be untill all the dust settles. Whatever the contract, the amounts will be split by 18 or 20 teams.

I agree that they have better bowl tie ins than the MAC, today. However, they just lost the Liberty and may lose others. I have no doubt that they will likely still have more in the end, but also about 20 teams vying for them.

Temple fans have also been saying that a tie-in with CUSA will lead to better BB games and selectively look at teams like UNLV, etc. They seem to be forgetting about playing Tulane and Rice, with 100+ RPIs. No doubt better overall, but maybe not as much as they think.

It's also amusing that they hope to be the flagship CUSA school in a few years. Haven't won the lowly MAC yet will take over in the new conf (like Marshall and UCF).

Link to UMASS contract Note: It's the 2nd pdf in the article.

(02-13-2012 11:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:34 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Except for the increased travel costs too, and that's assuming all your numbers are correct.

What you mean driving to Athens, Kent, Akron, and Buffalo is cheaper than flying to New Orleans?

I'm meh on the whole Temple thing.

Exactly. Meh. It's Temple's call. They don't have that much MAC history that it matters much. I'm just trying to do an honest CBA. It would impact the whole UMass thing, though.

I'd like to see Temple in for all sports, I think it would improve the MAC's image. FB only? Doesn't matter much either way.

Honestly Temple leaving all sports for the LBC would help the MAC to maybe poach some of the A10 schools if thats the direction they want to go.

What A-10 schools would consider going to the MAC for basketball???

Without Temple? I don't know. I just think the League losing one of its brand names might make members more open to it.

I'm done with this line of discussion if you think that the Alliance which was worth 1.3 million per school before defections is still somehow worth that... Well more power to you.

One more time the schools the 'alliance' conferences have lost

Boise
TCU
BYU
Utah
Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
Air Force (coming soon)

But yea no real loss in value there over when they got their deals..

Regards.

(02-13-2012 11:39 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:18 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 10:38 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  Temple would make of the $2m exit fee for the MAC in 2 years in C_USA...

Except for the increased travel costs too, and that's assuming all your numbers are correct.

What you mean driving to Athens, Kent, Akron, and Buffalo is cheaper than flying to New Orleans?

I'm meh on the whole Temple thing.

Exactly. Meh. It's Temple's call. They don't have that much MAC history that it matters much. I'm just trying to do an honest CBA. It would impact the whole UMass thing, though.

I'd like to see Temple in for all sports, I think it would improve the MAC's image. FB only? Doesn't matter much either way.

The MAC contract isn't up til 2016-17 I think...and it is $100,000 yr per school correct?

Temple also charterss flights to all football away games. I would think the travel costs would basically be increased because of fuel. I really don't know because I personally have never chartered a plane

The MAC may see an increase in TV revenue but that is not for 5 years. Even in the Alliance makeup it warrants more money than the MAC will ever get in a TV contract...That is just the way it is.

The golden ticket is the BE. Even if Temple had a $5M buyout with CUSA they would move in a heartbeat. You are talking estimates of $5m to $10m per school a year in TV money. By my calculations Bull, it won't take a decade to pay off the total of $7mil to the MAC and C-USA...

That doesn't even take into account the increased ticket sales and corporate sponsorships that Temple would make too...

I thought the CUSA buyout would be 10 mil? Or at least that is what some article reported (can't find link).

(02-13-2012 10:48 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 10:38 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  Bull,

If the Alliance happens, they are banking on renegotiating the contacts regardless.

The MAC pays what, $100,000 a year per school? That is horrible...
C-USA and the MWC schools get about $1.3-$1.5 Mil per school...I would think the Alliance contract would maybe be a little less per schools but that is still 10+ times more than the MAC...

Temple would make of the $2m exit fee for the MAC in 2 years in C_USA...

If Temple went to the BigE from C-USA and the TV contact is as expected...the $5mil would be a non issue...

Ok please try to look at history...

1) That contract was forged when programs like Houston, UCF, and Memphis were all in the conference. I might be mistaken but those are the three biggest markets CUSA had (or damn near it). They are also (when you throw in SMU) most of the competitive teams in that conference.

2) The last time the Big East raided CUSA their contract was significantly reduced and thats when they had the Houston and Memphis draws. This time it *is* going to happen again. And it was not a little drop last time, the contract lost between 75-85% of its value (I don't care to look it up but its in that neighborhood).

losing 75% of the contract this time is possible and could mean you wont be getting 1 mil per school but about 250K, 500K tops.

To clarify here CUSA lost 75% of the value of the ESPN contract but then backfilled with CBS-CS to make up the difference. The net dollars were the same (as it had been since going back to the early 90's under the CFA contract).

The main reason why CUSA has always made more money than the MAC has to do with salary history. The MAC was not part of the CFA so never made the 1 million per school payout like all the schools participating were able to earn. The SEC broke away from the CFA in 1992 for a mega deal at the time (3 million per school). Out of obligation ESPN set the original contracts with the MWC and CUSA at that 1 million dollar per school figure.

ESPN I think is going to put its chips into the Big East because it wants to retain the BE for basketball reason and it doesn't hurt they have all the misfit toys in football. They want nothing to do with CUSA-MWC at this point. There really isn't very much there.

The remaining schools from the 2003 lineup:

CUSA: Tulane, Southern Miss, UAB, East Carolina
MWC: New Mexico, AFA, Wyoming, Colorado State, UNLV

Only 9 out of 19 schools (47%) remains from the original lineup. ESPN has the BE and BYU so they aren't too concerned about the leftovers.

The MWC is trying to escape the Mountain which they've been losing money because of carriage. The Mountain is owned by Comcast which is owned by NBC (which also owns versus). If ABC and NBC are out that leaves CBS and Fox...CUSA's current partners. There isn't going to be much competition for the MWC-CUSA contract to drive prices.

Now for the MAC, since NBC is looking to get involved with Big East and their TV deal likely a ABC/NBC hybrid that opens the door for the MAC to do the same. I anticipate a mid week football contract with ESPN for the MAC along with a secondary contract for more money with NBC Sports. The MAC may end up leaving ESPN in basketball for more exposure with NBC Sports. MAC games would be a natural compliment to whatever they are showing from the Big East with all the territory overlap of the two conferences.

(02-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:34 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:24 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  What you mean driving to Athens, Kent, Akron, and Buffalo is cheaper than flying to New Orleans?

I'm meh on the whole Temple thing.

Exactly. Meh. It's Temple's call. They don't have that much MAC history that it matters much. I'm just trying to do an honest CBA. It would impact the whole UMass thing, though.

I'd like to see Temple in for all sports, I think it would improve the MAC's image. FB only? Doesn't matter much either way.

Honestly Temple leaving all sports for the LBC would help the MAC to maybe poach some of the A10 schools if thats the direction they want to go.

What A-10 schools would consider going to the MAC for basketball???

Without Temple? I don't know. I just think the League losing one of its brand names might make members more open to it.

I'm done with this line of discussion if you think that the Alliance which was worth 1.3 million per school before defections is still somehow worth that... Well more power to you.

One more time the schools the 'alliance' conferences have lost

Boise
TCU
BYU
Utah
Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
Air Force (coming soon)

But yea no real loss in value there over when they got their deals..

Regards.

You are missing the entire point. It doesn't matter if it is less that $1.3Mil a year per school. The fact is the MAC TV deal sucks and anything is better than it. Is Temple going to wait 5 years to see where the MAC ends up with their contract? Probably not...

Regarding the A-10...rumors are that CUSA is looking for Temple as football only...so if Temple stays in the A-10 I doubt teams would leave

One side note here-nobody knows if C-USA would be requiring Temple to play 4 or 5 CUSA-Alliance basketball games a year or not. A lot of people would love to see Temple's OOC schedule open back up again without the commitment with the MAC schools...

If Temple is that stupid, they deserve what they get.

(02-13-2012 11:46 AM)CMUprof Wrote:  I thought the CUSA buyout would be 10 mil? Or at least that is what some article reported (can't find link).

All that has been said is that if you join the alliance they'll make it pretty painful to leave.

If they go by the CUSA buyout model which I expect then for every year remaining on the contract the school leaving would have to relinquish to the conference their divided share, for example 1 million x 10 years for 10 million to leave.

The greater the TV contract for the alliance, the greater the pain for leaving early. If it does turn out to be 2 million per school and with the trend these days of signing 8 to 10 year contracts that will equal a 16 to 20 million dollar buyout to leave the alliance for the Big East after 1 year.

Temple is in a pickle because if they join the alliance they are likely only 3-5 years away from joining the Big East and may be subject to double dipping for both the 2.5 million buyout and 10-12 million for CUSA. To break even Temple would have to play in CUSA for at least 6 seasons from year one of the alliance.

2013-14
2014-15
2015-16
2016-17
2017-18
2018-19

That is a long time when Louisville is on the verge of joining the Big XII with Rutgers or UC likely the teaming partner. Two more holes in the Big East and its hard not to see Temple in.

I think CUSA might have to actually lower their exit fees. What they have isn't enough to prevent teams leaving anyway, but it might be enough to make Temple think twice about locking themselves up to a huge buyout when they're still hoping for a BE invite.

(02-13-2012 11:55 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:46 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:34 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 11:28 AM)DrTorch Wrote:  Exactly. Meh. It's Temple's call. They don't have that much MAC history that it matters much. I'm just trying to do an honest CBA. It would impact the whole UMass thing, though.

I'd like to see Temple in for all sports, I think it would improve the MAC's image. FB only? Doesn't matter much either way.

Honestly Temple leaving all sports for the LBC would help the MAC to maybe poach some of the A10 schools if thats the direction they want to go.

What A-10 schools would consider going to the MAC for basketball???

Without Temple? I don't know. I just think the League losing one of its brand names might make members more open to it.

I'm done with this line of discussion if you think that the Alliance which was worth 1.3 million per school before defections is still somehow worth that... Well more power to you.

One more time the schools the 'alliance' conferences have lost

Boise
TCU
BYU
Utah
Houston
Memphis
UCF
SMU
Air Force (coming soon)

But yea no real loss in value there over when they got their deals..

Regards.

You are missing the entire point. It doesn't matter if it is less that $1.3Mil a year per school. The fact is the MAC TV deal sucks and anything is better than it. Is Temple going to wait 5 years to see where the MAC ends up with their contract? Probably not...

The MAC deal though is due to get better with improving performance on the field of play and today's market conditions.

The MAC traded ESPN money for exposure. The MAC had more games last year than any other conference on ESPN media (ESPN 2/3/U and game plan).

The MAC could take the approach of splitting second tier rights between ESPN and NBC Sports while allowing schools to retain third tier local broadcasting rights. The MAC could keep Midweek football, add Versus for September/October weekend broadcasts and then have schools signing their own local deal. Financially it would be equivalent to CUSA but with the benefit of retaining midweek games on ESPN for recruiting purposes.

The MAC deal is 1.4 million. Adding UMass would bump value to 2.0 million, only signing for second tier rights 4.0 million. Then in today's marketplace 8.0 million. Versus then offers another 8 million for football and basketball product and very quickly the MAC is making that 1 million per school figure.

Also while far flung conferences like the Big East and the alliance look attractive in today's TV environment, the move to a la carte programming whereby subscribers pay for each channel should drive down TV revenues as ESPN would no longer have a monopoly or the money to pay for these excessive TV contracts. Therefore taking the long term perspective a staying in a traditional conference may be the way to go.

Temple should make the best deal for themselves that they can. Whether they stay in the MAC or not is not really of that much significance to the MAC since they haven't had much real impact on the football image of the conference. The MAC is not much hurt or helped by their addition or subtraction.

Stability are us.

Both MAC and CUSA could get decent deals from ESPN, b/c as the BTN and similar start taking games from ESPN, they're going to be looking for content.

At some point, they can't just talk about sports, they actually have to broadcast sports.

(02-13-2012 12:52 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Both MAC and CUSA could get decent deals from ESPN, b/c as the BTN and similar start taking games from ESPN, they're going to be looking for content.

At some point, they can't just talk about sports, they actually have to broadcast sports.

Isn't that what we do here? Talk but don't watch?

Chartering a Boeing 757 or thereabouts ends up around $100,000 for the two days. A bit less if you severely restrict passengers and opt for a 737.

Marriages of convenience rarely last. So be it.

(02-13-2012 06:32 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  Marriages of convenience rarely last. So be it.

Not even much convenience here. More of an arranged marriage.

....and that's the problem with the Alliance..it's a "marriage of conveniences" and it won't last, either...there's no glue holding together far flung conferences like this one. I will be interested to see if Temple "bites"....they might only if they figure the Big East is never going to invite them in.

(02-13-2012 08:26 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ....and that's the problem with the Alliance..it's a "marriage of conveniences" and it won't last, either...there's no glue holding together far flung conferences like this one. I will be interested to see if Temple "bites"....they might only if they figure the Big East is never going to invite them in.

My guess is that they do and history shows that they have a much better chance at a Big East invite as a CUSA member than as a MAC member.

(02-14-2012 01:55 AM)Beckman4President Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 08:26 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  ....and that's the problem with the Alliance..it's a "marriage of conveniences" and it won't last, either...there's no glue holding together far flung conferences like this one. I will be interested to see if Temple "bites"....they might only if they figure the Big East is never going to invite them in.

My guess is that they do and history shows that they have a much better chance at a Big East invite as a CUSA member than as a MAC member.

???

(02-13-2012 08:16 PM)NIU007 Wrote:  

(02-13-2012 06:32 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  Marriages of convenience rarely last. So be it.

Not even much convenience here. More of an arranged marriage.

Lets call it what it is, a SHOTGUN WEDDING, between the old maid cousins left over after the rest married off. Have fun swimming in that genetic cesspool...