I agree with Pirate fan..if they go 14/18, the extra two all sports invites are Temple and Memphis.

I posted something similar to this on another thread but here goes.

The Big East needs to expand to 12 All Sports teams just to absorb possible future poaching.

Add:

Temple {All Sports}
ECU {All Sports}
Memphis {All Sports}
Southern Miss or Nevada {All Sports}
BYU {Football Only)

This will give the BE, 12 All Sports Teams with 16 Football Teams and 20 Basketball Teams. It will be a Great Football and Basketball Conference. It will also allow them to release Pitt, Cuse and WV.

(11-01-2011 03:25 PM)piratefan1975 Wrote:  The basketball schools want to be affiliated with a bcs conference. They sucked it up and were willing to accept UCF, Houston and SMU due to large TV markets, urban universities and football recruiting in Florida and Texas. UCF just built a new basketball arena, Houston has name recognition in basketball. SMU; not so much.

The basketball side of the Big East has taken a hit in their perception.

I say they add two more all sports members in Temple and Memphis to shore up the basketball side. That gives them 14/18.

I like it. Add either BYU if you can pull it off or ECU for fb only and TEMPLE and Memphis all sports. You reload BB almost back to where it was, and football has room to lose a couple with little consequence. 14-18 would be a great mix, with tons of games to sell on tier 2-3 networks.

(11-01-2011 03:57 PM)shocky Wrote:  I'm not sure UC would block Xavier. Dayton maybe, but I don't think their is that much hatred between the two universities that UC would go out of it's way to block X.

This could be an amazing basketball conference if the Big East wants to keep a balance with football and basketball schools. There are a ton of good Basketball schools in the region, and it would be such a slap in the face to the ACC if the Big East still is the best basketball conference in the country.

I'm probably one of the few UC guys who think the addition of Xavier is feasible. I see it like this, such a move would certainly increase local interest in the BE. Increased local interest equals increased attendance and ratings.

Whether UC fans want to admit it or not, Xavier has largely transcended the A-10 much like Gonzaga and the WCC. I'm certainly not saying Xavier is a national school. But, I could argue that they would increase the basketball side of the new television contract enough to pay for themselves in spite of market redundancy.

With the loss of Syracuse, Pitt, and WVU, I really think the Big East should look into some basketball schools - Butler, Temple, Xavier, etc.

Agreed that XU would be a good add. I think it would turn our region into a Big East region, hands down, whereas right now it's got substantial A-10, Big 10, and SEC influence. Xavier fans would be more likely to root for UC football if X was in the BE. A win-win.


St. Louis, on the other hand, adds nothing. I don't know why their name keeps coming up. They haven't made the tourney since 2000, and they've never even been to a Sweet 16. If we want to add another Midwestern Catholic school in addition to Dayton and Xavier, it should be Creighton. They're perennially top-15 in basketball attendance, and they've been to the tourney 6 times in the past decade. They could do some real damage in the tourney if they got Big East level recruits. I'd even put Creighton ahead of Dayton.

(11-01-2011 03:31 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  

(11-01-2011 03:26 PM)BamaScorpio69 Wrote:  

(11-01-2011 03:23 PM)ShockerBob Wrote:  They should target Kansas and return the favor.

Kansas will not be happy w Big12 when Mizzou leaves.

Depends on the TV deal New-BE gets.

Yeah thatta teach'em.....lol

lol sounds absurd yes, but we're talking about the Big12

Same could be said when Nebraska+Colorado+A&M+Missouri all left the Big12. Conference was 2nd best in the land with 2nd most money behind SEC. No excuse to get poached like they did.

Kansas is a basketball first school and will look to protect those interests if UT/OU keep wavering. They are not happy about losing Missouri. The entire conference is jumping ship. My Tech friends say Tech brass still talking to Pac12.

KU is not leaving conference mates they've been with for 90 years(KSU,ISU, OU,OSU for 50 years) to join the Big East unless there was no longer a B12.

This sh!t is more confusing than Chinese math.

The Big East would have to bite the bullet and start inviting same state members if it wanted to add good BBall additions.

Nova /+ Temple
Cincy /+ Xavier,Dayton
UofL /+ WKU

etc.

Notre Dame might let Butler in since Notre Dame doesn't really care about BBall and the Big East doesn't really care about Notre Dame unless they go all sports.

(11-01-2011 06:51 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The Big East would have to bite the bullet and start inviting same state members if it wanted to add good BBall additions.

Nova /+ Temple
Cincy /+ Xavier,Dayton
UofL /+ WKU

etc.

Notre Dame might let Butler in since Notre Dame doesn't really care about BBall and the Big East doesn't really care about Notre Dame unless they go all sports.

I think i'd roll the dice and add ECU before Memphis. I don't think it's much of a stretch to see a Carolina school take the BE flag and build a basketball program in a hurry. Building a football program is hard, basketball (to a non-embarassing level) is nowhere near as difficult if you have any cash for a coach and are not in an area devoid of athletes.

(11-01-2011 06:51 PM)freshtop Wrote:  The Big East would have to bite the bullet and start inviting same state members if it wanted to add good BBall additions.

Nova /+ Temple
Cincy /+ Xavier,Dayton
UofL /+ WKU

etc.

Notre Dame might let Butler in since Notre Dame doesn't really care about BBall and the Big East doesn't really care about Notre Dame unless they go all sports.

The last thing the BE needs is more bball only schools. I don't know where this is even coming from.

It will be very important the all- sports-but-FB members to maintain a close-to-even split among all sports and all- sports-but-FB members of BE. Before all the defections, it was going to be 9 all sports and 8 all- sports-but-FB (including ND).

If current 6 new invitees all accept, it will be 8 all sports, 3 FB-onlies, and 8 all-sports-but-FB , so effectively on all-member matters (if voting is equal), FB schools have 11/19 (58%) and less than required super-majority of 15 or 75%.

If FB-onlies are limited to voting only on FB matters, as they are truly only one sport members, the even split among all sports and all- sports-but-FB members of BE is basically maintained. And we all know how the BE as a hybrid loves the status quo.

Accordingly, if all of the 6 accept, any new additions would be made with these factors in mind:

(i) strengthening FB if it’s a high-level add (e.g., BYU - and that would be FB-only or all sports if BYU insisted but that is unlikely as they already have a home for Olympic sports out West) or strengthens the BCS position (some argue Army as third service academy in BE could have that effect for political reasons);

(ii) strengthening BB quality and adding schools that are "similarly situated" to the existing all-sports-but-FB members for maintaining voting balance (Memphis and Temple certainly are good adds for BB-quality but would think and act like FB schools, so you could also see schools added like Xavier (would Cincy block this?), Dayton, St. Louis, Creighton (Omaha, NB)); and

(iii) adding depth in all sports membership to be prepared for eventual further loss of members (UofL, UConn, Rutgers and Cincy have at best tepid interest in the BE 3.0 and would bolt to an available spot in any other BCS conference); and

Of course, if any of the 6 invited bail, the calculus goes to replacement of them, e.g., Boise, Navy or AFA bails, Temple or ECU for FB-only or, adding one of them or Memphis all sports to replace WVU to get to 9 as was the status quo when TCU was to join.

Also, once BE makes its moves, the lower cylinders start to roll - MWC, CUSA raid each other and/or Sunbelt and MAC, who then may look to CAA FCS teams (JMU, Ga. State, ODU, Delaware) to upgrade for back-fill, and in basketball A-10 raids CAA to replace any teams it loses and so on.

And all of this turmoil started because aTm was tired of sharing a room with its obnoxious older brothers.

It sounds like the BB schools want Memphis and Temple. Nova doesn't want Temple but will probably try to parlay their support in getting in at the football trough. There would be your 14/18 and you would have 11 all sports members.

Divisions actually break down pretty good.

West: BSU,AFA, UH, SMU, Memphis, Louisville, Cincy

East: UConn, Rutgers, Villanova, Temple, Navy, UCF, USF

Also, thinking about a 14/18 concept reveals some clues as to what is on the table:

1. Current membership - All sports - 5; all-but-FB - 8 - total 13

2. With 6 adds as proposed - All sports - 8 + FB-only 3 = 11 FB plus 16 BB

3. To get to 14 FB and 18 BB you need 3 FB and 2 BB, so that to me means (and I am just making a supposition not espousing support for the same):

a. All sports adds (which are really BB adds) - Temple and Memphis - 13 FB and 18 BB

b. And as a quid pro quo for Temple joining as all sports Villanova upgrades to FBS as No. 14 in FB.

Memphis is as good as Syracuse or Pitt. Temple is very good now and would get better in BE so you have solved your BB-quality problem - UConn, UofL, Memphis, Georgetown, Villanova, Marquette, St. John's and Temple makes a very good BB conference and 8/18 = 44% high-quality BB).

One question would be whether the Temple all-sports/Villanova FB-upgrade agreement would also include a Temple agreement to share the Linc/PPL Park. The current Linc lease permits 8 CFB dates - 7 Temple home games and Army-Navy. In a future BE world with Temple and Villanova both as all sports members, that number could remain the same (so Eagles should not care) as follows: (a) 1 - Mayor's Cup - Temple v. Villanova (except now an alternating home game that would also be an annual BE Eastern Division game (and considering all the acrimony between them could develop into the new Backyard Brawl?), (b) 4 Temple home dates, and © 2 Villanova home dates (Temple would use PPL for 2 games in relpacement) and (d) Army-Navy (which would then be BE OOC game for Navy).

And 11 all sports members is exactly enought to leave 8 if UConn (ACC), Rutgers (B1G) and/or UofL (B12) leaves.

(11-01-2011 03:59 PM)exCincy Kid Wrote:  I agree with Pirate fan..if they go 14/18, the extra two all sports invites are Temple and Memphis.

I hate to sound like a Temple pimp, and I really REALLY hate to even suggest anything positive about Memphis, but if either of those schools get left out of a 14/18 mess, then this conference is utterly and completely incompetent.

Passing them over to get to 10 or even 12 is one thing. But 14??? Basketball took a major hit too, and it needs some additions. Plus Temple's football is actually not horrible anymore. They are such an obvious choice. It's like Nova would rather die without them than live with them. Nova is cutting off its own nose to spite its face with Temple.

Ok, here's my 14/17

FB East:
UConn
RU
USF
UCF (all sports)
UL
UC
Navy (fb only)

FB West:
UH (all sports)
SMU (all sports)
AFA (fb only)
BSU (fb only)
BYU (fb only)
Nevada (fb only)
Memphis (all sports)

BYU will be #12 in football whenever they can clear out their independent commitments, Temple and Villanova will join as #13 and #14 in football in about 2016, and a school like Saint Louis will slide into the #18 spot in basketball.

ALL-SPORTS (10)
UConn & Rutgers
Temple & Villanova
Cincy & Louisville
USF & UCF
Houston & SMU

FOOTBALL-ONLY (4)
Navy & Air Force
BYU & Boise State

BASKETBALL (8)
Providence & Seton Hall
St. John's & Georgetown
Notre Dame & Saint Louis
DePaul & Marquette

Villanova will either play in an expanded PPL Park, or else play September home games at PPL Park, 4 Big East road games in October, and 4 Big East home games at the Phillies stadium in November. Temple doesn't control the Linc.

This is like a bad dream that I just can't wake up from. I am happy for the new additions for the conference. Each of the programs have merit. I am just so discouraged by the organization and desperation of the Big East. I just don't like the set up and I'm not a fan of it.

Okay, I am a fan of this. I know it won't happen, but I can wish and dream and at least go to bed a little more satisfied tonight.

The Continental Conference

Colonial Division
UConn
UMass
Rutgers
Temple
Navy
UCF
ECU
Old Dominion
Frontier Division
Louisville
Cincinnati
Memphis
USF
Houston
SMU
Air Force
Boise St.

And Yep! It's an all sports conference. None of this I play this and you play that stuff.
*and if the regular football season was expanded to 14 games and the basketball season allowed 5 more games I'd add BYU to the Frontier and Army to the Colonial.
*as you can see those can be broken down even farther to quads... Northeast, Southeast, Midwest and West.