(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

Do you care that Toledo beat temple head to head? A lot of people are dismissing this fact. Toledo can step up and play good D if they have too. And Temple can obviously slip up.

Ps- Toledo has 28th ranked schedule to temples 108.

I don't think you can argue the fact that Toledo has proved it's better because of the head-to-head.

(10-18-2011 07:56 AM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

Do you care that Toledo beat temple head to head? A lot of people are dismissing this fact. Toledo can step up and play good D if they have too. And Temple can obviously slip up.

Ps- Toledo has 28th ranked schedule to temples 108.

Fact of the matter is Temple SH** the bed vs. Toledo...

I do think Temple is playing very good football right now! BG will be another tough game this weekend. I expect them to put some points on the board vs Temple's D

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:34 AM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 07:40 AM)Frozenbaugh Wrote:  I went and looked at the sagarin rankings for SOS. Umm, EMU is averaging 1 more point per game with the 106th strongest schedule than BSU with the 58th. So, deep down, you know that answer.

It goes back to what my main point was. Holding 2 teams scoreless over 8 quarters is pretty damn good and Toledo played EMU and BGSU over those same two games. It's not like Temple played the Sisters of the Poor and Toledo had absolute grudge matches. I am not disparaging the Toledo defense by any means. But, 0 points over 8 quarters is good.

You are right that Temple has a better defense than Toledo....Temple has the best defense in the MAC. However, Toledo has a better offense than Temple. You can't look at teams and say that Temple is better because they have a better defense, without looking at the whole team.

Toledo is scoring 34.7 points per game. Toledo is a +10 in turnover margin, which has been a big part of Toledo's game for the last two years. Temple is scoring 31.4 points per game, which is pretty good, but the only good team they faced and scored more than 13 points (10 vs Penn State and 13 vs Toledo). They've really played an easy schedule so far. Temple is a + 4 in turnover margin.


I don't know how you can really tell who is the better team between Toledo and Temple. Toledo's defense matches up well against Temple, which is part of why Toledo beat Temple at Temple. Other than that, everything is just speculation.

well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

Again, outside of the turnovers it is a close game. I don't know what you want? Whether they were forced or not, Toledo still had to recover the fumble and catch the interception. Toledo is a +10 for the season, top five in the country. It's what they do. Pierce was held to 76 yards (or was it 75 yards) with zero TD's, and he has run through everyone else. I don't understand why Toledo can't be credited for doing some of what made Temple look bad. Just because a team plays bad doesn't mean it was all them. Usually the other team has a lot to do with why that team is playing badly.

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 10:40 AM)templefan1 Wrote:  well that, and the 4 turnovers TU had...

Hoping for a rematch...

I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

If those turnovers don't happen AND if Temple would have scored points. That's a lot of IF's.

(10-18-2011 03:23 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 12:54 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  I know Temple had 4 turnovers, Toledo had one too so Toledo was +3 for the game. Turnovers is part of Toledo's game though, but putting it in perspective if you take the plus 3 and say Toledo scored 21 points.......Toledo won the game by 23 points. So to me it shows that without the turnovers the teams were pretty close on Temple's home field.

Again, how you can really say that either school is better than the other without just looking at the head to head game, which if you break it down and look at the turnovers it is close too.......................

We have to remember though that Toledo is known for causing turnovers, so it's not like it was a fluke thing that the Toledo defense forced two fumbles that were recovered and intercepted two passes.

Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

If those turnovers don't happen AND if Temple would have scored points. That's a lot of IF's.

Look, i understand that...I am saying those first two turnovers were unforced errors. Take those away and you are talking a whole new ballgame. Toledo's d could have gotten tired from being on the field such a long stretch of time if Temple had the ball during those two drives

Keep in mind that Temple had a long drive on their first drive. Temple then has Toledo go three and out, then Matt Brown muffs a punt (unforced error). Toledo scores on a short field. Temple then comes out and Chester Stewart throws a horrible INT on 3rd down...I mean freaking horrible (toledo did nothing on this play except play center field). Ball is then on the Temple 41. To Toledo's credit they scored on both of those drives.

seriously take a look at how bad this throw was...
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312740218

What did Toledo do there that tells you they forced that turnover? Maybe leave the receiver wide open so Stewart could overthrow him 10 yrds? Do they teach that in practice???

Temple made mistakes and Toledo capitalized...but I am not going to say Toledo forced a muffed punt and a horrible throw...

So anyway, there are 7 teams with 4-3 or better. Discuss.

(10-18-2011 03:59 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:23 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

If those turnovers don't happen AND if Temple would have scored points. That's a lot of IF's.

Look, i understand that...I am saying those first two turnovers were unforced errors. Take those away and you are talking a whole new ballgame.

Take away philidelphia and temple isn't a school.
Take away Bernard pierce's mother and he was never born.
Take away Christopher Columbus and we're talking about soccer and native Americans still roam ypsi, mount pleasant, and Oxford...

If if if

(10-18-2011 04:36 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:59 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:23 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

If those turnovers don't happen AND if Temple would have scored points. That's a lot of IF's.

Look, i understand that...I am saying those first two turnovers were unforced errors. Take those away and you are talking a whole new ballgame.

Take away philidelphia and temple isn't a school.
Take away Bernard pierce's mother and he was never born.
Take away Christopher Columbus and we're talking about soccer and native Americans still roam ypsi, mount pleasant, and Oxford...

If if if

very cute...

(10-18-2011 03:59 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:23 PM)BrianNowicki Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 03:11 PM)Shrakkrocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:58 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  Brian,

Come on...there were two turnovers on the 2nd and third drives that completely changed the game.
1. Muffed punt by Matt Brown...(that was not something forced). Gave the ball to Toledo inside the 20
2. Int by Stewart. It wasn't like this was forced either. Stewart overthrew a wide-open receiver by 15 yrds...right into the safeties arms. The safety was playing centerfield...gave the ball to Toledo again inside Temple territory

Those points lead directly to 15pt for Toledo. You take those away and you have completely different game at that point...

so what other stat do you want to take away? maybe we can take one of yours too. BTW, Toledo is 4th in the country in turnover margin.

I am just saying that forcing turnovers and gift turnovers are different things. Toledo took two gift turnovers and turned them into pts (to there credit). If Temple doesn't have those two turnovers(that were unforced) and they turn those drive into points...they could have been leading by as much as 17pts if they had good drives...All speculation on my part.

Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

If those turnovers don't happen AND if Temple would have scored points. That's a lot of IF's.

Look, i understand that...I am saying those first two turnovers were unforced errors. Take those away and you are talking a whole new ballgame. Toledo's d could have gotten tired from being on the field such a long stretch of time if Temple had the ball during those two drives

Keep in mind that Temple had a long drive on their first drive. Temple then has Toledo go three and out, then Matt Brown muffs a punt (unforced error). Toledo scores on a short field. Temple then comes out and Chester Stewart throws a horrible INT on 3rd down...I mean freaking horrible (toledo did nothing on this play except play center field). Ball is then on the Temple 41. To Toledo's credit they scored on both of those drives.

seriously take a look at how bad this throw was...
http://espn.go.com/ncf/video?gameId=312740218

What did Toledo do there that tells you they forced that turnover? Maybe leave the receiver wide open so Stewart could overthrow him 10 yrds? Do they teach that in practice???

Temple made mistakes and Toledo capitalized...but I am not going to say Toledo forced a muffed punt and a horrible throw...

Again about the muff and throw.....Toledo might not have forced them but they still had to recover the muff and catch the interception. Temple could have easily recovered the muff and I see sure interceptions dropped all the time.


I'm not saying that Temple is not a good team. They might even be the best team in the MAC.....I know I thought they were before they lost to Toledo. I just can't see how anyone can sit here (or stand if that's what you do) and say that Temple is clearly better than Toledo. Turnovers and mistakes (can't believe all of the excuses being thrown out here) aside, the game was played at Temple and that usually is good for 7 points. Turn the game completely around by 30 points (23 point victory and 7 points for Temple's home field advantage) and you get two pretty even teams that are both pretty good.

(10-18-2011 03:18 PM)templefan1 Wrote:  Just saying that Toledo did not forced the first two turnovers...they were mistakes on Temple and Temple alone...

Shut down Bernard Pierce and force temple to pass = forcing Temple into their weakness and forcing turnovers.

Temple going down in Bowling Green

(10-18-2011 05:54 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(10-18-2011 01:29 AM)owen Wrote:  BGSU taking down Temple Saturday in route to a East division championship

Will. Not. Happen.

So Owen sayeth and so shall it be done!