(05-02-2011 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  The same thing could be said about felonies and misdemeanors. Plenty of felonies that aren't on the order of murder and really come quite close to what many misdemeanors are...but it matters not. The term felony is treated vastly different than a misdemeanor...regardless of public perception of the crime. And yes, the punishment may be far less than what you get for murder...but it's a felony none-the-less.

Truth be told, you can get more time in prison for selling pot than for murder...

That in itself tells me things in this country are totally screwed...

(05-02-2011 11:51 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  The same thing could be said about felonies and misdemeanors. Plenty of felonies that aren't on the order of murder and really come quite close to what many misdemeanors are...but it matters not. The term felony is treated vastly different than a misdemeanor...regardless of public perception of the crime. And yes, the punishment may be far less than what you get for murder...but it's a felony none-the-less.

Truth be told, you can get more time in prison for selling pot than for murder...

That in itself tells me things in this country are totally screwed...

Well if we're going to go down that road, let's just say I have a major problem with the fact that privatized prisons are some of the largest monetary supporters for the continuation of the War on Drugs and Three Strikes laws.

But back to the topic at hand, if you want to use the NCAA term, then yes it was a 'major' violation. However, if that's the case, just under 50% of all FBS teams had major violations in a 10 year period. I think that makes the term 'major violation' lose it's pizzazz personally and would rather save that for you know, actual major violations.

And yet, according to the article you cited, only 11 institutions have had two instances of major infractions during the last decade (even counting the ones that you consider to be minor). Even though we're not talking about pay-for-play or academic dishonesty, that doesn't change the fact that multiple major violations during a five year period would be a bad deal for UCF. Multiple infractions would ultimately lead to stiffer penalties.

Again, I'm not against UCF, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I personally hope that UCF is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing. CUSA doesn't need one of its top programs to be penalized.

Really, the biggest concern for UCF right now is if the NCAA takes a serious look at the program. Although it looks on the surface to be minor, there is the potential that they could uncover something more serious.

(05-02-2011 12:02 PM)chrisharper80 Wrote:  And yet, according to the article you cited, only 11 institutions have had two instances of major infractions during the last decade (even counting the ones that you consider to be minor). Even though we're not talking about pay-for-play or academic dishonesty, that doesn't change the fact that multiple major violations during a five year period would be a bad deal for UCF. Multiple infractions would ultimately lead to stiffer penalties.

Again, I'm not against UCF, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I personally hope that UCF is found to be innocent of any wrongdoing. CUSA doesn't need one of its top programs to be penalized.

Really, the biggest concern for UCF right now is if the NCAA takes a serious look at the program. Although it looks on the surface to be minor, there is the potential that they could uncover something more serious.

Really? You're not arguing against UCF? Because your first sentence assumes UCF will be found guilty of some wrongdoing without any proof of anything.

Can we please just stop, you see my point. Having a 'Major' NCAA infraction isn't as bad as it sounds and that's the point the original poster was trying to make. If it was, then literally half of all NCAA FBS programs are major violators.

Truth be told though, I don't find nearly any of those violations, including pay for play or slush funds, nearly as egregious as the graduation rates at many of the top schools. That's what the NCAA should be looking into moreso than these sorts of things. They're fine with schools using up athletes to win games, without any second thought in them graduating, as long as they were recruited on the up-and-up.

Clearly I have rubbed you the wrong way, which wasn't my intention at all, so I will concede to your point. But I thought I was clear in saying IF more infractions were handed down. I didn't by any means intend to imply guilt. Like I said, I hope there is nothing discovered.

No worries, and I agree, if other infractions are laid down it will look very badly on our program despite our current status as on probation being from pretty run-of-the-mill violations. I would like to see when the earlier violations actually occurred (there was a few years time between them happening and it coming out IIRC) so it could have been on a past administration. Of course, that wouldn't matter to the public image of the school, so let's just hope no one in our administration did anything *REALLY* stupid in this new thing.

What UCF fans need to understand is that the media can build you up and they can tear you down.

All the buildup from the media UCF had been getting lately may not have been a good thing. Being billed as a sure thing, can't miss, next best Fl team... etc isn't the best thing as all it takes is a stroke of the pen and it all goes away.

If they find violations, they should be punished, if not, they should be thankful and then go after the nut that started it all. But generally when it gets to a certian point and the media gets wind of it, there is some smoke and fire together.

Time will tell. Hope all goes well.

(05-02-2011 11:51 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  The same thing could be said about felonies and misdemeanors. Plenty of felonies that aren't on the order of murder and really come quite close to what many misdemeanors are...but it matters not. The term felony is treated vastly different than a misdemeanor...regardless of public perception of the crime. And yes, the punishment may be far less than what you get for murder...but it's a felony none-the-less.

Truth be told, you can get more time in prison for selling pot than for murder...

That in itself tells me things in this country are totally screwed...

Many thing yes...but totally screwed...no. Shining a light on various inequities does not mean that others which are correctly handled should be ignored...or that the system is totally flawed so it can be tossed aside.

Some posters are trying to argue whether things should be this way or looked at that way...that isn't the point. It is considered a major violation. It received punishment accordingly (fair or unfair) and that particular violation is seen differently than a minor violation. Miko, where are you when you are needed? It may not receive alot of attention by the NCAA but it doesn't change the fact that it is considered a major violation. That in itself is worse to have on your record than having minor violations (regardless of public perception) especially if second offenses arise (which at this point none have been proven).

Trust me. It's totally screwed...

You know instead of Louisville and Pitino being the ones who could have started this, UCF should focus the investigation on some or all of the BE basketball schools. They have the most to gain by sabotaging the FB schools plan to go to 12.
Could even be retaliation for the Nova situation.

BE doesn't mind cheaters. they celebrate the Uconn championship. In spite of the known cheating there.

The SEC, Big Tin, Pac Tin, Big XII, and ACC don't seem to mind cheaters either. And if memory serves me correctly, neither do any of the non-AQ conferences, goodknight. So what's your beef and problem?

(05-02-2011 02:49 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  The SEC, Big Tin, Pac Tin, Big XII, and ACC don't seem to mind cheaters either. And if memory serves me correctly, neither do any of the non-AQ conferences, goodknight. So what's your beef and problem?

I think he's saying the BE won't see what they did (allegedly) as an issue re: expansion candidates.

I know what he's saying, and it's a crock...

(05-02-2011 12:28 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 11:51 AM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 11:45 AM)apex_pirate Wrote:  The same thing could be said about felonies and misdemeanors. Plenty of felonies that aren't on the order of murder and really come quite close to what many misdemeanors are...but it matters not. The term felony is treated vastly different than a misdemeanor...regardless of public perception of the crime. And yes, the punishment may be far less than what you get for murder...but it's a felony none-the-less.

Truth be told, you can get more time in prison for selling pot than for murder...

That in itself tells me things in this country are totally screwed...

Many thing yes...but totally screwed...no. Shining a light on various inequities does not mean that others which are correctly handled should be ignored...or that the system is totally flawed so it can be tossed aside.

Some posters are trying to argue whether things should be this way or looked at that way...that isn't the point. It is considered a major violation. It received punishment accordingly (fair or unfair) and that particular violation is seen differently than a minor violation. Miko, where are you when you are needed? It may not receive alot of attention by the NCAA but it doesn't change the fact that it is considered a major violation. That in itself is worse to have on your record than having minor violations (regardless of public perception) especially if second offenses arise (which at this point none have been proven).

That's just it, it's not a matter of how it should be seen, it's a matter of how it legitimately is seen by those who follow college sports. Ask any college football fan to name the major recruiting violations in the past 5 years, what do you want to bet that none concerning texts or phone calls to a recruit come up?

I don't see what's so difficult here...

Quote:I know what he's saying, and it's a crock...

Not necessarily, it depends on what is found if anything. If there's institutional issues with the university then of course it'd be a major issue. If it's just one bad apple, I doubt the Big East bases a multi-million dollar decision on some iffy recruiting practices.

(05-02-2011 03:23 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  That's just it, it's not a matter of how it should be seen, it's a matter of how it legitimately is seen by those who follow college sports. Ask any college football fan to name the major recruiting violations in the past 5 years, what do you want to bet that none concerning texts or phone calls to a recruit come up?

I don't see what's so difficult here...

I've highlighted the part that seems to be difficult for you. It needs to be replaced with "Ask any NCAA Infractions Committee member..." and then you may understand what we're talking about. The fan's opinion matters zilch in how it is seen.

Guys, this story was proven to be false. That was not a real twitter account. You guys need to let it go and see how the investigations play out. There is not enough information to make a determination one way or another at this point in time.

(05-02-2011 03:29 PM)apex_pirate Wrote:  

(05-02-2011 03:23 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  That's just it, it's not a matter of how it should be seen, it's a matter of how it legitimately is seen by those who follow college sports. Ask any college football fan to name the major recruiting violations in the past 5 years, what do you want to bet that none concerning texts or phone calls to a recruit come up?

I don't see what's so difficult here...

I've highlighted the part that seems to be difficult for you. It needs to be replaced with "Ask any NCAA Infractions Committee member..." and then you may understand what we're talking about. The fan's opinion matters zilch in how it is seen.

Again, you're wrong. 44% of all BCS Programs were put found guilty of at least one *MAJOR RECRUITING VIOLATION* from 2001-2010. Literally, almost half of all programs in FBS football were put on some form of probation for *MAJOR RECRUITING VIOLATIONS* in the last ten years alone.

That is just a term they use for any violation that results in a penalty. It has no bearing on how they see another violation by the same school, that's based on the *VIOLATION* itself and not the meaningless term that small minded people as yourself can't get over. Again, the term has no bearing on the punishment itself, just that there is a punishment, and the term itself has no bearing on future punishments. You need me to say it again? How about this, when you read "Major Violation" you just insert "Violation"? Because that's literally all it means.

UCF08

You miss the point. GoldenBuc was spinning so hard he called the infractions "minor." All I did was point out the NCAA called the infractions "major." I also corrected the other errors GoldenBuc made.

Now you are spinning it too ("everybody commits major infractions"). I think you should spend less time worrying about what everybody else does, and more time worrying about how the NCAA is going to handle your particular episode given that UCF is already on probation.

I'm just stating that the term "Major Infractions" doesn't mean what it sounds it means. It really should just be "Infractions", as there is really no legitimate difference in how they approach either one.