(04-10-2011 11:34 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 10:00 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 09:58 PM)SumOfAllRetards Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 09:37 PM)the other Chit4brains Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 09:27 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  The American majority will make him anonymous, as well as the worst president in history, as soon as possible. Scandal maybe just around the corner.

The worst president in history was Dubya, followed by Nixon, GHW Bush, and Reagan.

the other Chit4brains, you can only try to defend the indefensible. You cannot succeed by definition.

You fail at life.

You are the most mendacious person i've ever heard of.

I am offended by that post. I am pretty sure you knew me before you knew him so that I should get that title.

(04-10-2011 10:55 PM)Raider_ATO Wrote:  Buchanan's inability to stop the Civil War from occurring puts him #1 on my list.

There was very little Buchanan could've done to stop the civil war. It was going to happen eventually. However, the fact that he did nothing to attempt to delay it is a sign of how bad he was.

Worst 5 Presidents
============
1. Buchanan
2. Pierce
3. Grant
4. Harding
5. Hoover

Best 5 Presidents
===========
1. Lincoln
2. Jefferson
3. T. Roosevelt
4. Washington
5. Jackson

(04-10-2011 11:43 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 11:34 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 10:00 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 09:58 PM)SumOfAllRetards Wrote:  

(04-10-2011 09:37 PM)the other Chit4brains Wrote:  The worst president in history was Dubya, followed by Nixon, GHW Bush, and Reagan.

the other Chit4brains, you can only try to defend the indefensible. You cannot succeed by definition.

You fail at life.

You are the most mendacious person i've ever heard of.

I am offended by that post. I am pretty sure you knew me before you knew him so that I should get that title.

It's a dubious distinction you are claiming for yourself.

I'll go with:

Worst 5:

Shrub
Carter
Hoover
Buchanan
Obama

Best 5:

FDR
Reagan
Lincoln
Jefferson
Washington

Obama's in the bottom five and republicans have nobody to run who can beat him. And his predecessor edges Jimmy Carter for the worst ever. How bad is that?

(04-10-2011 11:07 PM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  Obama will run for a second term, and will win easily.

Republicans have no one who will beat him.

You're probably right about that.

Worst president?

Bottom 5:

Buchanan, Pierce, Grant, Hayes, Harding.

History may bump one of them for Bush the Younger. Reagan is at least in the top half. You're letting your hate of conservatives cloud your objectivity. Carter may have rehabbed his legacy somewhat by being Mr. Humanitarian after his term, but as presidents go, he was pretty damned useless.

What exactly did Reagan do that put him anywhere near the top? This I've got to hear.

He won the cold war. He spent the Soviet Union into oblivion. Everybody laughed at SDI. Know who was a believer? Mikhail Gorbachev. This was in a time of great prosperity in America. Don't want to give Reagan credit for that? Cool. Then don't give it to Clinton, either.

Tell me, Greg. Who are your top 5?

(04-11-2011 07:42 AM)Smaug Wrote:  He won the cold war. He spent the Soviet Union into oblivion. Everybody laughed at SDI. Know who was a believer? Mikhail Gorbachev. This was in a time of great prosperity in America. Don't want to give Reagan credit for that? Cool. Then don't give it to Clinton, either.

The largest military operation under Reagan's watch was Grenada. It has a total land mass of 132.8 sq miles and a population of 110K (2005 est.) For all the conservative bravado about how tough Reagan was, he had fewer military operations than any other president in recent history.

As for the cold war, the Soviet Union would've gone bankrupt with or without Reagan. The republic spanned 11 time zones, and had a poor infrastructure. It would've collapsed if we did nothing at all.

As for SDI, it has still not been implemented to this day, twenty-three years after Reagan left office.

When Reagan entered office, unemployment was at 7.5%. When he left office, it was at 5.3%. When Clinton entered office, unemployment was at 7.3%. When he left office, it was at 3.9%. Apparently, Clinton did a much better job lowering unemployment than Reagan did.

You've made a better case for Clinton being in the top five than for Reagan.

I believe what I said was that Reagan belonged in the top half, not the top 5.

Yes, the Soviet Union would have collapsed on its own. Eventually. Reagan hurried it along. So his biggest military action was a skirmish in Grenada. You say that as if it were a bad thing.

And I think history is going to find Clinton in the top half, as well. He'd be higher if he could have kept his pants on.

I can't deny Reagan. He did a decent job even though he was into some SHADY stuff while in office.

Reagan was DEFINITELY overrated, but in no way would he belong in the Worst 5.

(04-11-2011 08:06 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I can't deny Reagan. He did a decent job even though he was into some SHADY stuff while in office.

You mean like Iran-Contra, the S&L scandal, the HUD grant rigging, the Superfund and Sewergate controversies?

Heck, Iran-Contra alone was worthy of impeachment.

(04-11-2011 08:34 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 08:06 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I can't deny Reagan. He did a decent job even though he was into some SHADY stuff while in office.

You mean like Iran-Contra, the S&L scandal, the HUD grant rigging, the Superfund and Sewergate controversies?

Heck, Iran-Contra alone was worthy of impeachment.

Funny I think the same thing about deploying US troops to Libya without congressional approval.. (and yes the boys flyin gour Jets count as troops no matter how sanitary 'air support' sounds)

BIE, do you really want to hold the CIC to that standard? You do realize that we rarely get congressional approval for these types of things.

I'm fine if you do, but you have to apply your disapproval to all former presidents and their similar missions.

Historically, its way to early to be putting anyone from Reagan to Obama anywhere. You need a good two generations before you can see their policies play out without the bias of proximity. Reagan was a good president, probably not a top 5 or 10 President. As of now it would be hard to put him past Lincoln, Washington, Jackson, TDR, FDR, Jefferson, Truman, or Polk, but once we get away from his term a bit more, I bet he could be in the talk with Eisenhower, Wilson, and Adams.

Same goes for worst President. Shrub sucked but its really hard to get past Buchanan, Pierce, Harding, Grant, Hoover, and Tyler. Hell, 3 of those guys basically made the Civil War inevitable, 2 oversaw a level of corruption that would make Nixon blush, and Hoover, well Hoover was a smart man that was at the wrong place at the wrong time, historically. Bush 2 won't be seen as bad as either of them.

Other than Hoover, those "worst" President would've been impeached in a heartbeat in this impeachment happy political culture we live in.

(04-11-2011 08:01 AM)the other Greg Childers Wrote:  

(04-11-2011 07:42 AM)Smaug Wrote:  He won the cold war. He spent the Soviet Union into oblivion. Everybody laughed at SDI. Know who was a believer? Mikhail Gorbachev. This was in a time of great prosperity in America. Don't want to give Reagan credit for that? Cool. Then don't give it to Clinton, either.

The largest military operation under Reagan's watch was Grenada. It has a total land mass of 132.8 sq miles and a population of 110K (2005 est.) For all the conservative bravado about how tough Reagan was, he had fewer military operations than any other president in recent history.

As for the cold war, the Soviet Union would've gone bankrupt with or without Reagan. The republic spanned 11 time zones, and had a poor infrastructure. It would've collapsed if we did nothing at all.

As for SDI, it has still not been implemented to this day, twenty-three years after Reagan left office.

When Reagan entered office, unemployment was at 7.5%. When he left office, it was at 5.3%. When Clinton entered office, unemployment was at 7.3%. When he left office, it was at 3.9%. Apparently, Clinton did a much better job lowering unemployment than Reagan did.

You've made a better case for Clinton being in the top five than for Reagan.

I seem to recall air attacks against Terrorist targets in Lebanon, air attacks on Libya in response to terrorist attacks, the Achille Lauro incident, Escorting Tankers in the Persian Gulf, air attacks against Iranian targets in response to their mining of the Persian Gulf.

One person that I don't see on anyone's "Worst 5 List" that is #1 on mine

Woodrow Wilson
Carter
Harding
Obama
Buchanan

How anyone puts FDR in their top 5 best is beyond me. He's the guy who started the beginning of the US nanny state. Lucky for him we had Japan attack us or else he'd be #1 worst ever.

Best to worst in my lifetime (IMO) that I was old enough to understand what was going on.

Reagan
Clinton
HW Bush
W
Obama
Carter