It is merely part of a long list of lies/deceptions/half-truths. SO far from the "transparent" government he promised. He'll trot out some statistics showing that they've responded to X number or y% of FIA requests... but that isn't the transparency he promised. He promised we'd be able to see tax bills before they were voted on, and then Pelosi tells us we have to pass healthcare to see what is in it. He hides his most generic of documents... He doesn't consult congress before bombing Lybia... he does backroom deals with Soros and Petrobras. At least when BUSh was accused of complicity, the companies he was accused of favoring were US based.... NOW he publicly argues for spending caps... which is popular... and then publicly announces "unprecedented" investment in ifrastructure... also popular... with no thought as to how to pay for it.... meaning congress will either have to a) not make the investment (unpopular) b) make cuts in other popular programs (unpopular) or c) make more deficit spending (actually d, all of the above, but I digress)

Now, for you political hacks who think this is a sporting event and want to see "your team" win, I'm sure you;ll marvel at the shrewd political strategy... but the reality is, most of the people who elected him (moderates, blue dogs and independents) don't want any of this. They want the transparency they were promised... and while they may not support "Congressional Hearings" into Obama's birth, they do recognize the hypocrisy... and the pattern of intentional deceit. I may not like his socialist policies, but at least I have a little respect for Kucinich, who seems willing to stand alone on his principles and call Obama out from time to time. I'm betting these calls will come louder as we approach the next election. and yes... like the healthcare polls, SOME, like Kucinich will turn against Obama because his policies aren't liberal enough... and some, like the blue dogs and independents will turn against him for violating the very principles that the birth certificate and college transcripts represent. It's not about the paper... it's about the principles. Principles that got Obama into office... that you couldn't trust politics as usual... Even if he comes forward with it now... he's lost the battle. The far right will have lost their impeachment cry, but they weren't going to vote for Obama anyway... and while I don't know enough about Trumps policies to support him, I'm betting that his message will resonate with a number of voters... that in any way that matters to the far left and the independents, Obama may as well be Bush... at least enough to keep them from voting for Obama again... which is half the battle

(03-25-2011 09:57 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Besides, there is proof that Obama's mother was in Hawaii when she was pregnant...and since life begins at conception...case closed

It has a strange likeness to the Nixon WhiteHouse tapes, which ended rather badly. Then it also ended badly for Ford who saw fit to pardon Nixon. The public has a keen sense on matters of honesty in this nature.

States rights allow them to put anything on the ballot they like. It's not hard for me to understand their motivation, since my guess is like you they are not convinced.

If a State finds it so important to clarify citizenship and birth records, go for it - my guess is that actually it is an important clarification to the electoral process, especially as the illegal immigration problem continues to expand with no fix in sight.

Much of my point to the sillines surrounding Birthers is, when there are so damn many things that conservatives can rally around, that concern over a settled issue (he is President) is a dilution of our limited resources.

Don't get me wrong, I understand "why" you are not convinced. I though am convinced.

(03-25-2011 10:19 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  You really think that the politics of marginalizing birthers, is a good political strategy, basically being arrogantly dishonest.
C'mon

Considering it is mostly Dems and moderates vs farther right conservatives, I'd say it's perfect.....

This ain't about making friends, padre.

(03-24-2011 11:21 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(03-24-2011 09:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Hooking on to the Birther stuff is not the way to win votes from those that voted for Barry. I thought DT was smarter than that. There is plenty of stuff to go after this clown about that everyone agree on..... I think he needs to have talk with James Carville.

You Didnt even read it, did you?

Many people respect Trump. It is his opinion, isnt he entitled to it? Hhe has honest question about Obama's reason for not putting the questions to rest. Is there any logical reason? Is he hooking onto birthed stuff or just being logical, asking an obvious question.

You Fo who rails against fraud, seem too willing to allow fraud of the highest order. For what, your belief in the honesty of Govt or Obama.

Do you ACTUALLY believe that he believes this stuff? Man, you are soooooo gullible. He is just playing to fools like you so you vote for him. Sounds like it might be working. Not sure why he would go in that direction since "birthers" are just a very small fringe group. It would hurt hurt him more than it would help him.

(03-24-2011 09:55 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Hooking on to the Birther stuff is not the way to win votes from those that voted for Barry. I thought DT was smarter than that. There is plenty of stuff to go after this clown about that everyone agree on..... I think he needs to have talk with James Carville.

Exactly.. these conspiracy people are just pushing people back to Obama.

Some group really planned nearly 5 decades ago to put a guy in office through illegitimate means? Quite the forethought to assume at that time we'd accept a black president, let alone one with the name Barack Obama.

Because that's what they're implying when they suggest these things. There's plenty of records of him being in Hawaii, if he was born there or not around the time of his birth. So you'd have to have started planning this 50 years ago.

It's just silly.. he's made so many mistakes, it's not like it's hard to bash Obama on legitimate issues. Why would you make an ass of yourself over this? How could anyone take you seriously?

Why would Barack ever share his birth certificate? He's only making birther's look bad everytime it's brought up. Every time it's mentioned he's got a better chance with moderates. He has nothing to gain from showing it.

(03-25-2011 12:24 AM)Claw Wrote:  He already has exhibited more balls than McCain AND Hillary.

I never thought I'd even consider voting for him, but I just might now.

Um, I don't think Hillary has "balls" so obviously Trump has more balls than Hillary. I didn't remember you as being a "birther". Guess that is what happens when you watch too Fox propaganda and read all of SOAF's BS.

(03-25-2011 10:27 AM)cb4029 Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 09:57 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Besides, there is proof that Obama's mother was in Hawaii when she was pregnant...and since life begins at conception...case closed

Conception is an act, not a period of time, you two buffoons.

(03-25-2011 02:11 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  How does he know that? What I know is good minded people want to know the truth, whatever that might be. Where gov't is concerned, people don't like their leaders avoiding questions. Makes them look more sleazy than shysters.

If they had good minds they wouldn't believe this crap.

People, this is Trump we're talking about! (Actually, most of you have changed the subject; so maybe not.) He is a kook and self-pimp of the highest order. Of course, he's a shrewd sonofagun in a Trumpian sort of way - in The Donald's world any publicity is good publicity. He'll spend several million of his own on a doomed presidential campaign because it keeps his name on the marquee. Good marketing! So spouting extremist right wing conspiracy theories is fine for him. But as others have already pointed out, you are not going to win the hearts and minds of the middle by promoting this claptrap. And the middle is going to get you elected.

(03-25-2011 09:28 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  If there is NO problem with president Barry's personal records (Birth Certificate, College Transcripts, etc.) why would he avoid sharing them? He would make his critics look incredibly foolish if all were authentic and without blemish. You hide your credentials where there is a reason to hide, not because you are trying to stand on principle.

Did you drink too much coal contaminated water when you were at Marshall?

(03-25-2011 09:52 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 08:55 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 02:40 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  It is the LameStreamers that are dismissive. They shaped the debate and failed to vet Obama. The sheeple do think it is a waste of time, because the LameStreamers told them that is what they are to believe.

So you like so many others are feverously tap dancing around the question. What is the logical reason that he still has not shown his long form birth certificate?

Calling people names, especially those on your side of the political spectrum, is no way to Make Friends and Influence People.

The fact that you believe I am Lamestream and a Sheeple, because I am convinced that Barack Obama is a US Citizen, is riduculous.

The LameStreamers are the MSMedia, sheeple.

What is your convincing argument for saying he is a US citizen? What information is the foundation for your opinion? Mind you, there are a lot of people smarter than I, that are convinced that there is no logical reason for him to spend millions on lawyers to keep things secret.

What is the logical reason that he still has not shown his long form birth certificate? Been asking that since before the his 2008 election.

Well, since you set such a low bar for intelligence, it is not difficult for someone to believe this crap and be smarter than you. Not sure where Palin ranks but at least she is smart enough to make millions off people like yorself so I would have to say she is a little smarter than you(as I said, that ain't saying much though).

(03-25-2011 10:35 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 10:19 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  You really think that the politics of marginalizing birthers, is a good political strategy, basically being arrogantly dishonest.
C'mon

Considering it is mostly Dems and moderates vs farther right conservatives, I'd say it's perfect.....

This ain't about making friends, padre.

You really think the only thing people are concerned about is his birthplace? You don't think anyone "in the middle" worries about the transparency he promised?

(03-25-2011 09:57 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Heard on the news the other day that at least 12 states are considering requiring all presidential candidates to provide birth certs. Right now we can't even be absolutely certain Obama has met the required age limit, although I'm guessing he has. If the states pass those laws then Obama will either have to produce the real deal or he won't be put on the ballot.

I will be willing to bet at least 11 of those 12 states(if not all of them) are "red" states.

(03-25-2011 11:28 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Not sure where Palin ranks but at least she is smart enough to make millions off people like myself who obsess about her and keep her in the news, so I would have to say she is a little smarter than me (as I said, that ain't saying much though), but I still like to make disparaging remarks about her intelligence, even though she is playing lefties like me like a fiddle.

FIFY.

(03-25-2011 10:07 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 09:56 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(03-25-2011 09:52 AM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  What is your convincing argument for saying he is a US citizen. Mind you, there are a lot of people smarter than I, that are convinced that there is no logical reason for him to spend millions on lawyers to keep things secret.

What is the logical reason that he still has not shown his long form birth certificate?

You and I have been over this a half-dozen times. No need to re-hash.

And mind you, there are a lot of people smarter than I, that are convinced that he is a US citizen.

Ok, lets not rehash. Then tell me why so many states find it necessary at this point to require a long form BC to be put on the ballot? As Steve has said that must mean many legislatures cannot answer the question.

Because they are tea party wack jobs like you! It is political. If you do not see this you are extremely ignorant.

(03-25-2011 11:17 AM)Brookes Owl Wrote:  People, this is Trump we're talking about! (Actually, most of you have changed the subject; so maybe not.) He is a kook and self-pimp of the highest order. Of course, he's a shrewd sonofagun in a Trumpian sort of way - in The Donald's world any publicity is good publicity. He'll spend several million of his own on a doomed presidential campaign because it keeps his name on the marquee. Good marketing! So spouting extremist right wing conspiracy theories is fine for him. But as others have already pointed out, you are not going to win the hearts and minds of the middle by promoting this claptrap. And the middle is going to get you elected.

People use politics to dismiss the question. Don't even address the political implications. We both know both sides are corrupt. Corrupt beyond the pale.

So if you could just address the question Trump poses. Politics aside. In an honest, transparent way. Simply. Logically.

What is the logical reason that he still has not shown his long form birth certificate?

(03-25-2011 11:37 AM)RobertN Wrote:  Because they are tea party wack jobs like you! It is political. If you do not see this you are extremely ignorant.

This coming from someone whose only longtime companion is a blow up sex doll.

(03-25-2011 09:28 AM)THE NC Herd Fan Wrote:  If there is NO problem with president Barry's personal records (Birth Certificate, College Transcripts, etc.) why would he avoid sharing them? He would make his critics look incredibly foolish if all were authentic and without blemish. You hide your credentials where there is a reason to hide, not because you are trying to stand on principle.

Are you serious here? This is obvious, you shouldn't have to ask.

He has absolutely nothing to gain by showing anything. Birthers are never going to vote for him, regardless how much proof he has. He doesn't have a single reason to pander to these people.

You really think the portion of the country that makes up birthers is going to see his birth certificate and decide, "Hey, we should vote for this Hussein character this time around. True American that Barack, through and through, can't wait to have him in office for another four years. Can't believe I ever thought he was a Socialist, Muslim from Kenya. Golly Gee, what was I thinkin?" Come on. That's like telling someone who voted for Al Gore you have proof there is no global warming. They still aren't going to believe you, they'll just say you faked the evidence.


He loves that birthers keep showing up in the news, he couldn't ask for anything more. They are sabotaging the legitimate portion of the GOP and scaring off moderates, it's exactly what he wants. I wouldn't be surprised if you found Dem's funding the birther movement.

People that go at him for what he's done while in office, that's his problem. Conspiracy theory nutjobs? He couldn't be happier to have them around.