(12-16-2010 01:14 PM)Raleighwood Pirate Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 01:03 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 01:00 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  You could always see if Georgia Southern wanted to move up...

If we were going the FCS route at least go App State, who actually cares about football and puts butts in the seats. I don't want to add another do nothing team who plays in front of stands that are 2/3's empty, we already have about 8 teams who fit that bill.

If App St. was added to the Sunbelt today they would have the highest attendance of any team in the league. I agree with you. App cares about football and that is what matters most.

I didn't actually know that, but if it's true that is all I need to hear to know I never want to be in a conference with any current Suck-Belt member. I am tried of pretending like you can make people in a big city care about a mediocre football program.

(12-16-2010 01:19 PM)Inigo Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 01:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Appalachian won't move up though. They like it where they are...

They are currently doing a feasibility study about moving up. I haven't heard anything about the results of that, though.

I can do that study for them in 5 minutes. They are right this second a better program than anything in the Suck-Belt, MAC, what's left of the WAC, and about half of C-USA.

(12-16-2010 01:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Appalachian won't move up though. They like it where they are...

I think they might if they had a chance at CUSA. Sun Belt, no... they'd have zero reason to move up for that.


UMASS is making serious noise about moving up. JMU is pouring millions into their facilities; I doubt they intend on being FCS forever. Old Dominion has been a huge success. Liberty University has publicly said they intend to be FBS eventually. Charlotte and Ga State are widely considered to be planning an eventual move to the FBS level. Jacksonville State is actively planning a move up.

It seems to me that there are enough schools in the East that either could move up, or are planning on moving up, that you might see some sort of new affiliation in the future - possibly with the eastern half of CUSA and/or Sun Belt as the starting point or core of it. Schools with no current plans to move up, but with the fan base to support a move (Delaware, App State and Ga Southern) could easily be part of it.

With more $$, bowl opportunities, and TV opportunities w/ ESPN, and the difficult financial realities of FCS football (as the Montana AD laid out recently), I think we'll see more FCS schools making the move up in the coming years. I think we'd have seen Montana make the move if a) Montana State had been ready to move also, and b) the WAC wasn't such a clusterf*ck of instability

CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

PS. Having attended many events there (mostly Basketball and Hockey), ULL's Cajun Dome is a beautiful facility.

(12-16-2010 02:28 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

I think CUSA really just needs to evaluate it on a $$$ perspective. Yeah they have 4 teams in Texas but their divisional setup makes travel feasible for them as all CUSA-West is in the the eastern half of texas, louisiana, or oklahoma with the exception of UTEP which is kind of on an island. Playing fewer games out of their division will keep travel cost down so Temple could very well be "in play".

(Also on an unrelated note, the low travel cost of CUSA west also serves as a deterrent to MWC teams raiding them as the net benefit of the MWC tv deal likely would not cover increased travel cost and exit fees)

Really I think USM and UAB are the bigger hurdles to Temple joining due to frequency of travel but unless their is a FCS upgrading team or F_U makes sense I think Temple is as viable as anyone.

My current off the top of my head I havent tried to research this version of CUSA's "wish list" assuming no further defectors from cusa or any higher leagues realigning.
1- Temple
2- F_U if they prove value (#3 if not)
3- Valuable FCS bump up like AppSt, Ga Southern, Ga State, Charlotte, Richmond, etc...
4- MTSU/UNT/La Tech/etc

(12-16-2010 02:28 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

If C-USA adds another team west of the Mississippi then ECU needs to leave. It already makes no sense geography wise, and having a team west of the Mississippi in the "East" would be unbearable.

Does it even matter right now? The odds of UCF leaving are still slim. Until we have a real bid and accept it, we are still CUSA members. Odds are, unfortunately, we'll be in CUSA for a while. Nova is going to move up and that will end expansion for a while. Leaving UCF in CUSA and making this thread stupid.

(12-16-2010 02:42 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 02:28 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

If C-USA adds another team west of the Mississippi then ECU needs to leave. It already makes no sense geography wise, and having a team west of the Mississippi in the "East" would be unbearable.

Yeah, you guys need someone within travel range.

I'm gonna say Old Dominion will replace UCF. It will fit nicely into the eastern division and be much closer for ECU and Marshall than UCF was. It is in a very nice location with great facilities, high density of population, fertile recruiting ground and already is successful in both men's and women's basketball. The intention is for ODU to make the move to FBS. They have a nice beginner program already.

I wish that Liberty U. would get the invite. But I'm only dreamin.

(12-16-2010 01:23 PM)wvucrazed Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 01:17 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  Appalachian won't move up though. They like it where they are...

I think they might if they had a chance at CUSA. Sun Belt, no... they'd have zero reason to move up for that.


UMASS is making serious noise about moving up. JMU is pouring millions into their facilities; I doubt they intend on being FCS forever. Old Dominion has been a huge success. Liberty University has publicly said they intend to be FBS eventually. Charlotte and Ga State are widely considered to be planning an eventual move to the FBS level. Jacksonville State is actively planning a move up.

It seems to me that there are enough schools in the East that either could move up, or are planning on moving up, that you might see some sort of new affiliation in the future - possibly with the eastern half of CUSA and/or Sun Belt as the starting point or core of it. Schools with no current plans to move up, but with the fan base to support a move (Delaware, App State and Ga Southern) could easily be part of it.

With more $$, bowl opportunities, and TV opportunities w/ ESPN, and the difficult financial realities of FCS football (as the Montana AD laid out recently), I think we'll see more FCS schools making the move up in the coming years. I think we'd have seen Montana make the move if a) Montana State had been ready to move also, and b) the WAC wasn't such a clusterf*ck of instability

I tend to think we need to mine the east coast as North Texas, LA schools, etc won't add any more money to the table for our TV deals. I don't see FIU adding that much either. I agree that there are some FCS teams that would add more value than anything in the Sunbelt. App St., JMU, ODU would all seem to be better fits.

Out of FIU and FAU, which do you pick and why?

(12-16-2010 12:34 PM)esayem Wrote:  Just wondering what the word is, would CUSA stay in FLA or go after Temple, LaTech etc?

I could have sworn I saw somewhere where C-USA has stated that the CCG has been a money loser, and that if they lost teams, they would not add teams "just to get to twleve" again. If they lose UCF, they probably don't replace.

That said, if they did go back to twelve, Charlotte has to be the number one choice, seeing as how they were a founding member of the conference, and now have a football team that plans to be 1A, and who only left because C-USA was going to an all-sports conference.

It's got to Charlotte first, and everyone else second. If not Charlotte, I would go out on a limb and say Western Kentucky would be a good number two [full disclosure, I attended WKU for a short time]. They were a top flight 1AA school (though have struggled with the conversion), have spent the money to upgrade their facilities in both football and basketball, and would technically be the most prestigious basketball program in the conference by most historical categories (yes Memphis fans, even ahead of the Tigers), and no worse than second or third currently. They also fit in well geographically, and while they are not in a market of any size, the C-USA contract tells me they are not geting paid dick for the markets they "cover" anyway, so it really doesn't matter.

I know most like to diss basketbetball in these discussions, but those NCAA tournament credits add a lot more money than low level bowl games do for a conference. A second round NCAA appearance will pay C-USA six times as much as most C-USA bowl games. There are few teams that can add anything for football, but you have a few out there that have a history of succeeding in basketball (Charlotte, WKU) and that can help financially a lot more than another mediocre football team will.

Since it is not a fore gone conclusion and nothing writing in stone that UCF will get the invite; who's invited if ECU or Houston is invited?

I love how the UCF fans believe they already have a seat at the table and waiting on the dessert to be passed around. If they keep talking long enough they will eventually believe it. You just have to love em all.

(12-16-2010 02:42 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 02:28 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

If C-USA adds another team west of the Mississippi then ECU needs to leave. It already makes no sense geography wise, and having a team west of the Mississippi in the "East" would be unbearable.

I agree. C-USA has a core of 8 schools that are in a fairly tight cluster. The outliers are UTEP in the West and Marshall, UCF, and ECU in the East. If C-USA has to add a team it needs to make sense geographically. Right now, UCF is actually the most isolated team in the East since the closest team is 9.5 hours away. Here are the travel times for the 3 East outliers to other East schools:


From ECU to:
Marshall 7.5 hours
UAB 10.5 hours
UCF 10.5 hours
Memphis 13 hours
Southern Miss 14 hours


From Marshall to:
ECU 7.5 hours
UAB 8.5 hours
Memphis 9 hours
Southern Miss 12 hours
UCF 13.5 hours


From UCF to:
UAB 9.5 hours
Southern Miss 10 hours
ECU 10.5 hours
Marshall 13.5 hours
Memphis 13.5 hours


=======================================


Now if you look at the C-USA expansion candidates mentioned in this thread you can see that several of them make sense to help tighten the conference geography:

From ECU to:
Charlotte 4 hours
Appalachian St 4.5 hours
Temple 7.5 hours
Marshall 7.5 hours
Georgia State 8 hours
Middle Tennessee 10 hours
UAB 10.5 hours
UCF 10.5 hours
Memphis 13 hours
FAU 13 hours
FIU 14 hours
Southern Miss 14 hours


From Marshall to:
Appalachian St 5 hours
Charlotte 5.5 hours
Middle Tennessee 6 hours
ECU 7.5 hours
Georgia State 8 hours
UAB 8.5 hours
Temple 9 hours
Memphis 9 hours
Southern Miss 12 hours
UCF 13.5 hours
FAU 17 hours
FIU 17.5 hours


From UCF to:
FAU 3.5 hours
FIU 4 hours
Georgia St 7 hours
Charlotte 8.5 hours
UAB 9.5 hours
Southern Miss 10 hours
Appalachian St 10.5 hours
Middle Tennessee 10.5 hours
ECU 10.5 hours
Marshall 13.5 hours
Memphis 13.5 hours
Temple 17 hours

============================================================

Charlotte would instantly become the closest conference rival for ECU, UCF, or Marshall. Appalachian St would become the closest for ECU and Marshall, and 3rd closest for UCF. Georgia St would become the closest school for UCF and the closest school for Marshall and ECU other than each other.

(12-16-2010 03:12 PM)Smokin Pirate Wrote:  Since it is not a fore gone conclusion and nothing writing in stone that UCF will get the invite; who's invited if ECU or Houston is invited?

If ECU is invited, I am not sure anything changes with regards to if or who the 12th team would be, than if it were UCF. I still think Charlotte is the first option, if anyone is added. After that, if they do not think like me, and if they wanted to do another Florida team to replace UCF, then I can';t see why they wouldn't still do if they lost ECU instead. I can see the benefits of having a league that is based in Texas and Florida.

If they lose Houston, I am not sure what to do. I still think not adding a 12th team might be the top option, especially since if you did add one, you would want it to be a team that can fit in the West. Maybe the ty and get Arkansas State (I use them because they have a pretty high home attendance average compared to their league).

(12-16-2010 03:15 PM)Inigo Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 02:42 PM)b0ndsj0ns Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 02:28 PM)KnightLight Wrote:  CUSA is a Texas-based Conference (4 current members are from TX), a conf HQ in Dallas and will most likely stay a South/Mid-South based Conf...so if UCF left...I think they will add a member from the South/Mid-South area...(vs expanding to the Northeast with Temple or another MAC member up north).

If C-USA adds another team west of the Mississippi then ECU needs to leave. It already makes no sense geography wise, and having a team west of the Mississippi in the "East" would be unbearable.

I agree. C-USA has a core of 8 schools that are in a fairly tight cluster. The outliers are UTEP in the West and Marshall, UCF, and ECU in the East. If C-USA has to add a team it needs to make sense geographically. Right now, UCF is actually the most isolated team in the East since the closest team is 9.5 hours away. Here are the travel times for the 3 East outliers to other East schools:


From ECU to:
Marshall 7.5 hours
UAB 10.5 hours
UCF 10.5 hours
Memphis 13 hours
Southern Miss 14 hours


From Marshall to:
ECU 7.5 hours
UAB 8.5 hours
Memphis 9 hours
Southern Miss 12 hours
UCF 13.5 hours


From UCF to:
UAB 9.5 hours
Southern Miss 10 hours
ECU 10.5 hours
Marshall 13.5 hours
Memphis 13.5 hours


=======================================


Now if you look at the C-USA expansion candidates mentioned in this thread you can see that several of them make sense to help tighten the conference geography:

From ECU to:
Charlotte 4 hours
Appalachian St 4.5 hours
Temple 7.5 hours
Marshall 7.5 hours
Georgia State 8 hours
Middle Tennessee 10 hours
UAB 10.5 hours
UCF 10.5 hours
Memphis 13 hours
FAU 13 hours
FIU 14 hours
Southern Miss 14 hours


From Marshall to:
Appalachian St 5 hours
Charlotte 5.5 hours
Middle Tennessee 6 hours
ECU 7.5 hours
Georgia State 8 hours
UAB 8.5 hours
Temple 9 hours
Memphis 9 hours
Southern Miss 12 hours
UCF 13.5 hours
FAU 17 hours
FIU 17.5 hours


From UCF to:
FAU 3.5 hours
FIU 4 hours
Georgia St 7 hours
Charlotte 8.5 hours
UAB 9.5 hours
Southern Miss 10 hours
Appalachian St 10.5 hours
Middle Tennessee 10.5 hours
ECU 10.5 hours
Marshall 13.5 hours
Memphis 13.5 hours
Temple 17 hours

============================================================

Charlotte or would instantly become the closest conference rival for ECU, UCF, or Marshall. Appalachian St would become the closest for ECU and Marshall, and 3rd closest for UCF. Georgia St would become the closest school for UCF and the closest school for Marshall and ECU other than each other.

Well someone call the football Gods and tell them to condense this conference.

UTEP to the WAC or MWC
ECU and UCF to the BEast
Marshall back to the MAC

BAM!! Now you have a condensed conference that you can add to within your footprint.

If only the football Gods ever listened.

(12-16-2010 03:18 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  If they lose Houston, I am not sure what to do. I still think not adding a 12th team might be the top option, especially since if you did add one, you would want it to be a team that can fit in the West. Maybe the ty and get Arkansas State (I use them because they have a pretty high home attendance average compared to their league).

They could easily slide Memphis west and add in the east. Conversely they could add a western team by pushing Tulane east.

(12-16-2010 03:21 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  They could easily slide Memphis west and add in the east. Conversely they could add a western team by pushing Tulane east.

I think Memphis would fight that kicking and screaming.

(12-16-2010 03:26 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(12-16-2010 03:21 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  They could easily slide Memphis west and add in the east. Conversely they could add a western team by pushing Tulane east.

I think Memphis would fight that kicking and screaming.

Not informed so please explain why. Couldn't they just get a "permanent rival" in the east?

(12-16-2010 03:29 PM)Sammy11 Wrote:  Not informed so please explain why. Couldn't they just get a "permanent rival" in the east?

No solid reason, but a quick review of C-USA east shows teams Memphis has been playing for 40 years. And C-USA west includes a bunch of teams that they have not regularly played. That was why I said that. Plus, most teams who consider themselves as having national profiles, and that is how Memphis views itself, prefer exposure East over west.