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Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
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SuperFlyBCat Offline
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Post: #101
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-23-2011 01:22 PM)Fanatical Wrote:  Wow, even the naacp in cincy won't support trying to better predominately black neighborhoods. I guess we shouldn't ever be surprised at cincy's inability to grow as an urban center

Downtown is a business district, with some residential (certainly much more than 10 years ago) and OTR will be a predominately white neighborhood
in the years to come. The streetcar grid is very small, it won't make a major impact. As an urban center Cincinnati is growing and expanding.
 
01-24-2011 02:09 PM
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Post: #102
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-24-2011 01:41 PM)rath v2.0 Wrote:  You live in Chicago where there is a real system in place. Dont mistake this as a real system. This wasn't. #1 reason the vast majority here doesn't want this bs system they tried to shoe horn. Has nothing to do with politics. Just practicality.

If it had been a real, sustainable system people would have supported it. I would have. And will if they put one on the table. This plan was a complete half a$$ed joke.

Well a more comprehensive light rail system was put to voters earlier this decade and it went down to crashing defeat.

I suspect anything that involves taxpayer funded public transportation will be shot down by voters.

Right or wrong, I think the streetcar thing was done to get a foot in the door. Long term plans are to grow the system beyond the current phase.
 
01-24-2011 02:40 PM
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Post: #103
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-23-2011 01:22 PM)Fanatical Wrote:  Wow, even the naacp in cincy won't support trying to better predominately black neighborhoods. I guess we shouldn't ever be surprised at cincy's inability to grow as an urban center

I don't think Chris Smitherman is trying to improve. If anything, he'd rather keep Cincinnati black and wants developers out of OTR. The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.
 
01-24-2011 02:42 PM
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Post: #104
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-24-2011 02:42 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.

As opposed to....what?
 
01-26-2011 12:33 AM
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ctipton Offline
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Post: #105
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Black
 
01-26-2011 01:17 AM
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BearcatsUC Offline
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Post: #106
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-26-2011 12:33 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(01-24-2011 02:42 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.

As opposed to....what?

Prosperous. Whiter. I think Smitherman revels in racial conflict. He's not out to fix any problems; rather, he'd rather be the one who stirs up problems and point to himself as the person we need to fix it.
 
01-26-2011 10:00 AM
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Post: #107
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-26-2011 12:33 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(01-24-2011 02:42 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.

As opposed to....what?

Your post seems to imply that black=poor.
 
01-26-2011 10:02 AM
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ctipton Offline
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Post: #108
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Streetcar backers mount ballot resistance

By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com • January 26, 2011

Readying for another battle in a war they believed was already won, Cincinnati streetcar supporters, melding their frustration with redoubled determination, hope to convince voters that a new attempt to derail the $128 million-plus project could be more damaging to the city than the one defeated in 2009.

Although legal questions remain about whether a second ballot measure later this year could halt a project on which construction likely will have already started, streetcar supporters concede the likelihood of another electoral showdown and are planning accordingly.

"It's like Groundhog Day - it's the same old story all over again," said John Schneider, a Downtown businessman who has been a leading backer of the streetcar. "The other side will never stop trying to kill this. If they fail again this time, there probably will be another effort down the road."

Opponents of the proposed Downtown-to-Uptown line say they expect to turn in their first batch of signed charter amendment petitions to the Hamilton County Board of Elections within the next few days.

"The signatures won't be a problem," said local NAACP president Christopher Smitherman, referring to the need to collect about 8,700 signatures of registered city voters to place the measure on the ballot. "People are fired up over this."

Assuming opponents meet that requirement, the charter amendment could go before voters between May and November, depending on when they turn in the petitions.

While streetcar foes are waging the early stages of their new campaign on the streets where their petitions are being distributed, supporters, reviving a strategic tactic they used masterfully in the November 2009 ballot battle over Issue 9, are relying heavily on social media for now to galvanize their forces.

"This will be a game of inches, won with lots of individual efforts," Schneider said in a call-to-action e-mail sent this week to rail advocates.

Cincinnatians for Progress, the group formed in 2009 to try to turn back Issue 9 and that built an energized grassroots network of 10,000-plus in doing so, is expected to again play a central role in this year's campaign.

Schneider's e-mail offers a glimpse at what could become the cornerstone of supporters' campaign - the argument that the new charter amendment is worse than its predecessor and would severely restrict City Hall's ability to pursue transit options even if gasoline prices soar over the next decade.

Under 2009's Issue 9, the city would have had to get voter approval before proceeding with the streetcar or any other passenger rail proposal. In contrast, the new charter amendment would flatly prohibit the city from spending "any money from any source whatsoever ... on the design, engineering, construction or operation of a streetcar system" until Dec. 31, 2020.

"Last time, their slogan was, 'We demand a vote,'" Schneider said. "This time, essentially what they're saying is, 'We demand you don't vote.'"

To reach voters, the charter amendment first may have to survive some thorny legal questions.

City Solicitor John Curp, noting that City Council approved the project last summer when it voted to accept state and federal money and to issue $64 million in local bonds to pay for it, argues those actions could preclude any attempt to "unspend the money."

Streetcar opponents are confident they are on solid legal ground.

The timing of the ballot measure - a question with strategic and financial considerations - also remains in doubt.

Opponents initially planned to seek a May vote, before substantial work on the streetcar had been completed - but when a special election could cost the city roughly $400,000. Now, however, they say they would be content to have an election any time from spring through November, even thought the later schedule could give the city more time to approve construction contracts and make a sizable initial expenditure.

When the issue appears on the ballot could dramatically alter the race's dynamics and electorate.

With no other major local matters expected on the primary ballot, a May election likely would draw only the most ardent advocates on both sides of the streetcar debate to the polls. A November contest would produce a higher turnout - and force City Council members to run for re-election on the same ballot with the contentious issue.

"It would be bad faith to try to push something like this through in a sneaky, one-issue election," Schneider said. "But I think that's what they'd like to do."

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110...llot-drive
 
01-26-2011 06:57 PM
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Post: #109
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-26-2011 06:57 PM)ctipton Wrote:  Streetcar backers mount ballot resistance

By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com • January 26, 2011

Readying for another battle in a war they believed was already won, Cincinnati streetcar supporters, melding their frustration with redoubled determination, hope to convince voters that a new attempt to derail the $128 million-plus project could be more damaging to the city than the one defeated in 2009.

Although legal questions remain about whether a second ballot measure later this year could halt a project on which construction likely will have already started, streetcar supporters concede the likelihood of another electoral showdown and are planning accordingly.

"It's like Groundhog Day - it's the same old story all over again," said John Schneider, a Downtown businessman who has been a leading backer of the streetcar. "The other side will never stop trying to kill this. If they fail again this time, there probably will be another effort down the road."

Opponents of the proposed Downtown-to-Uptown line say they expect to turn in their first batch of signed charter amendment petitions to the Hamilton County Board of Elections within the next few days.

"The signatures won't be a problem," said local NAACP president Christopher Smitherman, referring to the need to collect about 8,700 signatures of registered city voters to place the measure on the ballot. "People are fired up over this."

Assuming opponents meet that requirement, the charter amendment could go before voters between May and November, depending on when they turn in the petitions.

While streetcar foes are waging the early stages of their new campaign on the streets where their petitions are being distributed, supporters, reviving a strategic tactic they used masterfully in the November 2009 ballot battle over Issue 9, are relying heavily on social media for now to galvanize their forces.

"This will be a game of inches, won with lots of individual efforts," Schneider said in a call-to-action e-mail sent this week to rail advocates.

Cincinnatians for Progress, the group formed in 2009 to try to turn back Issue 9 and that built an energized grassroots network of 10,000-plus in doing so, is expected to again play a central role in this year's campaign.

Schneider's e-mail offers a glimpse at what could become the cornerstone of supporters' campaign - the argument that the new charter amendment is worse than its predecessor and would severely restrict City Hall's ability to pursue transit options even if gasoline prices soar over the next decade.

Under 2009's Issue 9, the city would have had to get voter approval before proceeding with the streetcar or any other passenger rail proposal. In contrast, the new charter amendment would flatly prohibit the city from spending "any money from any source whatsoever ... on the design, engineering, construction or operation of a streetcar system" until Dec. 31, 2020.

"Last time, their slogan was, 'We demand a vote,'" Schneider said. "This time, essentially what they're saying is, 'We demand you don't vote.'"

To reach voters, the charter amendment first may have to survive some thorny legal questions.

City Solicitor John Curp, noting that City Council approved the project last summer when it voted to accept state and federal money and to issue $64 million in local bonds to pay for it, argues those actions could preclude any attempt to "unspend the money."

Streetcar opponents are confident they are on solid legal ground.

The timing of the ballot measure - a question with strategic and financial considerations - also remains in doubt.

Opponents initially planned to seek a May vote, before substantial work on the streetcar had been completed - but when a special election could cost the city roughly $400,000. Now, however, they say they would be content to have an election any time from spring through November, even thought the later schedule could give the city more time to approve construction contracts and make a sizable initial expenditure.

When the issue appears on the ballot could dramatically alter the race's dynamics and electorate.

With no other major local matters expected on the primary ballot, a May election likely would draw only the most ardent advocates on both sides of the streetcar debate to the polls. A November contest would produce a higher turnout - and force City Council members to run for re-election on the same ballot with the contentious issue.

"It would be bad faith to try to push something like this through in a sneaky, one-issue election," Schneider said. "But I think that's what they'd like to do."

http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20110...llot-drive

I dislike Smitherman so much that I will vote for the streetcar. If he's against it, the streetcar must have some merit.
 
01-27-2011 08:54 AM
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Post: #110
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-26-2011 10:02 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(01-26-2011 12:33 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(01-24-2011 02:42 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.

As opposed to....what?

Your post seems to imply that black=poor.

Ummm..no....yours does....or at least that the possibility doesn't exist for some intrinsic reason..

...which is preposterous.
 
01-28-2011 12:03 AM
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Post: #111
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-28-2011 12:03 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(01-26-2011 10:02 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(01-26-2011 12:33 AM)converrl Wrote:  
(01-24-2011 02:42 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The cynic in me says Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor.

As opposed to....what?

Your post seems to imply that black=poor.

Ummm..no....yours does....or at least that the possibility doesn't exist for some intrinsic reason..

...which is preposterous.

You're the one who was chastised for equating relatively trivial things with the Holocaust. The problem is no one understands you...right?

What I specifically said was Smitherman wants to keep Cincinnati black and poor. Nothing in that wording implies that black people are automatically poor. All it says is that's the way Smitherman wants it, implying that it gives him a reliable base on which to agitate discontent.

If I may get back on topic, I don't mind a politician who creates dissonance if I believe there's an effort to be constructive. I don't see that with Smitherman at all.

If you think about it, what the hell does the NAACP care about streetcars? What does this have to do with the advancement of African Americans? Seriously.

My guess is that Smitherman sees the streetcar as a real development tool that will gentrify OTR. A prosperous Cincinnati would never vote for the likes of Smitherman. A contented populace wouldn't listen to one whose message is solely one of discontent.
 
01-28-2011 07:47 AM
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Post: #112
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(01-28-2011 07:47 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  The problem is no one understands you...right?

Nope--I'm well understood on the majority of my posts. My position may not always be the majority position, but I state my case clearly the majority of the time on this board.

We simply sit on the opposite side of many issues.
 
01-30-2011 08:39 PM
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