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Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
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Fanatical Offline
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Post: #81
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Interesting paradox. Let's not build public transportation, because we don't have enough of it.
 
12-14-2010 04:34 PM
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Post: #82
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Passenger rail is the most cost-effective solution for rural areas where large amounts of cargo need to be delivered to remote locations.....

It's also dynamite for difficult terrain such as mountains and deserts...

Or maybe trucks, existing highways, and more versatile vehicles would be better?

Pull your heads out libs...
 
12-14-2010 06:21 PM
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Post: #83
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-14-2010 04:34 PM)Fanatical Wrote:  Interesting paradox. Let's not build public transportation, because we don't have enough of it.

Well that's why it works in Europe and not here - You can actually get to where you're going in Europe. It will only work here if the system is complete, which is why I am realistic and think we should focus only on shorter lines that have a chance of succeeding, like one from Cincinnati to Dayton, or a high speed line that links second tier cities like Indy and Cincinnati to Chicago.

There will come a time when we need high speed rail because interstate highways aren't the long term answer.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2010 05:59 PM by BearcatsUC.)
12-15-2010 08:16 AM
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Post: #84
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-14-2010 09:39 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-13-2010 03:44 PM)Overrated Wrote:  
(12-13-2010 09:43 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-10-2010 04:49 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  Passenger rail between Cincy, Columbus and Cleveland is a massive waste of taxpayer money.
It is really that simple.


It's a massive waste of money if it's not done right. A slow-paced 3C line by itself won't cut it. As I mentioned before I think I line between Dayton and Cincinnati would be viable.

In order for a transit line to make any sense, shouldn't each city already have a system of mass transit available for tourists/visitors. Why would I take a train to Cleveland or any other city that takes longer to get there than my car and when I get there, I have no way to get around?

That's been my thought. Mass transit only works if you can get to where you're going. Going to Cleveland and being stuck in a train station doesn't work.

Now...going to Chicago on a train would be different story. You don't need a car in Chicago. If anything, getting around in a car can be a liability in that city.

+1...

Atlanta has a pretty good system also where the bus lines all run perpendicular to the MARTA line and the MARTA starts at the airport. In St Louis it's the same deal, their train starts at the airport and runs all over the downtown area. DC has a great transit system and driving there sucks.

Where I live it makes no sense to use public transportation because there are no really central areas for business parks or shopping complexes yet we have hundreds of empty buses running around the area that are subsidized 80% by tax dollars. I know of a fair number of residents in my area that work in the Detroit area but I really doubt that too many of them would be in favor of taking an inter-metro train to Detroit and then using the public transportation system in Detroit to get to their destination. There's just too much sprawl to have this sort of system make economic sense around here. I think this sort of system makes perfect sense for Boston-NYC or DC-Baltimore, just not around here.
 
12-15-2010 08:48 AM
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Post: #85
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Given the snowy weather lately, I'd love to be able to take a train to work. I certainly don't want to drive in it, much less get stuck in it.

At my last job, a drive from the burbs to my home in the city would take upwards of 3+ hours on a snowy day. At my current job - a commute of 50+ miles, I'll be staying in a hotel on those days.
 
12-15-2010 12:20 PM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.
 
(This post was last modified: 12-15-2010 02:23 PM by OneUChoopsfan.)
12-15-2010 02:19 PM
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Post: #87
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-15-2010 02:19 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.

Hot Coffee, XM Radio, Blue Tooth, on my way in my SUV!
 
12-15-2010 05:48 PM
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Post: #88
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-15-2010 02:19 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.

Hmmm...If I were to choose between a 18 mile, 3 hour drive where I'm at the mercy of idiot Cincinnati drivers who put on their flashers in the left lane because they figure they're the only ones who realize it's snowing...OR...taking a train that's not at the mercy of the snow that will shave 2 hours off my commute - I'll take the train.

The SUV option only works if the tool driving the car in front of you knows what he's doing. A Cincinnati snowy day qualifies about 75% of drivers in the idiot category.

The 3 hour commute tends to be on the way home, not early in the morning when no one is on the roads.
 
12-15-2010 05:59 PM
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Post: #89
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
I did an 18 mile drive to work this morning and it took 45 minutes. Straight from my garage at home to the garage at work. Didn't get even a flake of snow on my shoes.
 
12-16-2010 08:28 AM
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Post: #90
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-15-2010 05:59 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-15-2010 02:19 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.

Hmmm...If I were to choose between a 18 mile, 3 hour drive where I'm at the mercy of idiot Cincinnati drivers who put on their flashers in the left lane because they figure they're the only ones who realize it's snowing...OR...taking a train that's not at the mercy of the snow that will shave 2 hours off my commute - I'll take the train.

The SUV option only works if the tool driving the car in front of you knows what he's doing. A Cincinnati snowy day qualifies about 75% of drivers in the idiot category.

The 3 hour commute tends to be on the way home, not early in the morning when no one is on the roads.

That only happens if the train runs door to door which I kind of doubt could possibly be the case. You still need to get to the train and then to work and add in any "layovers" at each end of the train depot.
 
12-16-2010 08:34 AM
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Post: #91
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-16-2010 08:28 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  I did an 18 mile drive to work this morning and it took 45 minutes. Straight from my garage at home to the garage at work. Didn't get even a flake of snow on my shoes.

My commute was 2:20 today.


I'd like to thank the chick in the Subaru SUV with Indiana plates who spent several miles on I-74 this morning going 5 MPH - yes, that's right, FIVE - in the left hand lane around 5:50 am. She eventually zoomed to 15 when she got crazy.

I understand there was an accident along that stretch of road about an hour later.


So...how much earlier did you have to leave your house?
 
(This post was last modified: 12-16-2010 09:03 AM by BearcatsUC.)
12-16-2010 09:01 AM
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Post: #92
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-16-2010 08:34 AM)Cat_Litter Wrote:  
(12-15-2010 05:59 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-15-2010 02:19 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.

Hmmm...If I were to choose between a 18 mile, 3 hour drive where I'm at the mercy of idiot Cincinnati drivers who put on their flashers in the left lane because they figure they're the only ones who realize it's snowing...OR...taking a train that's not at the mercy of the snow that will shave 2 hours off my commute - I'll take the train.

The SUV option only works if the tool driving the car in front of you knows what he's doing. A Cincinnati snowy day qualifies about 75% of drivers in the idiot category.

The 3 hour commute tends to be on the way home, not early in the morning when no one is on the roads.

That only happens if the train runs door to door which I kind of doubt could possibly be the case. You still need to get to the train and then to work and add in any "layovers" at each end of the train depot.

Well, this is true. As I said before, mass transit works only if you can get to there from here. If it's done it has to be done completely, not some half-assed route that leaves you short of your destination.

I'm not opposed to doing some walking. This business of being dropped off at your door is one of the reasons Americans - Cincinnatians in particular - are so fat. What did the Enquirer say the other day - 2/3 of Cincinnati adults are obese?
 
12-16-2010 09:06 AM
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Post: #93
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-16-2010 09:01 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-16-2010 08:28 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  I did an 18 mile drive to work this morning and it took 45 minutes. Straight from my garage at home to the garage at work. Didn't get even a flake of snow on my shoes.

My commute was 2:20 today.


I'd like to thank the chick in the Subaru SUV with Indiana plates who spent several miles on I-74 this morning going 5 MPH - yes, that's right, FIVE - in the left hand lane around 5:50 am. She eventually zoomed to 15 when she got crazy.

I understand there was an accident along that stretch of road about an hour later.


So...how much earlier did you have to leave your house?

I always get up at 4:30 and leave the house around 5:15.
 
12-16-2010 11:47 AM
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Post: #94
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-15-2010 05:59 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-15-2010 02:19 PM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  I love taking my car to work on snowy days. On snow days, I get up an hour early, walk into my garage, hop in my SUV, and drive right up to within 10 feet of the entry door to my business.

Getting up earlier than usual assures me that there will not be much traffic on the roads, and heated seats plus automatic temperature control assures a warm and cozy drive.

No driving to a train station, or even worse, a a trip on bus or trolley. No sloshing through ankle deep snow from the parking lot or bus drop off point. No waiting for a delayed train to show up full of wet smelly people. No sitting (if I can get a seat) next to people I don't know nor care about. After the train ride, there is no long walk in leaky galoshes just to wait in a line of people all waiting to take a cab or bus to their work.

And that is just the trip to work. God forbid taking the train home from work on a snowy, wintry day.

Hmmm...If I were to choose between a 18 mile, 3 hour drive where I'm at the mercy of idiot Cincinnati drivers who put on their flashers in the left lane because they figure they're the only ones who realize it's snowing...OR...taking a train that's not at the mercy of the snow that will shave 2 hours off my commute - I'll take the train.

The SUV option only works if the tool driving the car in front of you knows what he's doing. A Cincinnati snowy day qualifies about 75% of drivers in the idiot category.

The 3 hour commute tends to be on the way home, not early in the morning when no one is on the roads.
One of the things we can agree upon is Cincinnati drivers.

I almost took out a lady who was stuck in 3" of snow on the left side of an uphill entrance ramp, trying to free herself by gunning her engine and turning her steering wheel full right.

Someone's daughter, someone's wife, and likely someone's mother. Thankfully, not mine.
 
12-16-2010 01:59 PM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-16-2010 09:01 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-16-2010 08:28 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  I did an 18 mile drive to work this morning and it took 45 minutes. Straight from my garage at home to the garage at work. Didn't get even a flake of snow on my shoes.

My commute was 2:20 today.


I'd like to thank the chick in the Subaru SUV with Indiana plates who spent several miles on I-74 this morning going 5 MPH - yes, that's right, FIVE - in the left hand lane around 5:50 am. She eventually zoomed to 15 when she got crazy.

I understand there was an accident along that stretch of road about an hour later.


So...how much earlier did you have to leave your house?
Were you westbound or eastbound on 74?
 
12-16-2010 02:08 PM
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Post: #96
RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
In an SUV with 4-wheel drive, you can just drive around the stalled vehicles if you know how to properly use 4-wheel drive...

I do it all the time--the extra weight along with the 4 wheel drive gives you enough traction to get around almost everything.
 
12-17-2010 08:12 AM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
(12-16-2010 02:08 PM)SuperFlyBCat Wrote:  
(12-16-2010 09:01 AM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  
(12-16-2010 08:28 AM)QSECOFR Wrote:  I did an 18 mile drive to work this morning and it took 45 minutes. Straight from my garage at home to the garage at work. Didn't get even a flake of snow on my shoes.

My commute was 2:20 today.


I'd like to thank the chick in the Subaru SUV with Indiana plates who spent several miles on I-74 this morning going 5 MPH - yes, that's right, FIVE - in the left hand lane around 5:50 am. She eventually zoomed to 15 when she got crazy.

I understand there was an accident along that stretch of road about an hour later.


So...how much earlier did you have to leave your house?
Were you westbound or eastbound on 74?

Eastbound...heading down the hill.
 
12-17-2010 11:22 AM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Streetcar foes start petition drive to block spending

By Barry M. Horstman • bhorstman@enquirer.com • January 19, 2011

Setting the stage for a second ballot showdown over the Cincinnati streetcar, opponents have started circulating petitions for a proposed charter amendment to block City Hall from spending any money on the $128 million-plus project for the next 10 years.

The courts, however, may have the first say on the measure, a decision that could determine whether voters have theirs later this year - by which time construction of the Downtown-to-Uptown line could be under way.

The essential question posed by that prospective and potentially messy scenario is whether the streetcar project could be halted midstream, perhaps leaving half-built tracks to become a modern equivalent of Cincinnati's unfinished subway tunnels from the early 1900s.

On that key point, the two sides are diametrically opposed.

The proposed city charter amendment, being pushed by the local NAACP and a coalition of neighborhood organizations and other groups, would prohibit the city from spending "any money from any source whatsoever ... on the design, engineering, construction or operation of a streetcar system" until Dec. 31, 2020.

Assuming streetcar opponents gather the roughly 8,700 signatures of registered city voters needed to qualify it for the ballot - an effort that began Wednesday night in College Hill - the charter amendment could go before voters between May and November, depending on when they turn in the petitions.

While taking a different tact, the amendment shares the objective of a defeated 2009 ballot measure that would have killed the streetcar plan by requiring voters’ approval on all future passenger rail proposals.

Fifteen months after that vote, the streetcar continues to provoke contentious debate, with proponents hailing it as a means to rejuvenate neighborhoods along its inner-city route and opponents castigating it as an ill-timed initiative for a city just forced to cut $55 million from its budget.

"We've never said no way, no how, no time to this," said Christopher Smitherman, president of the local NAACP. "What we have said is that this particular plan makes absolutely no sense right now. And if citizens are asked, I think they'll feel the same way."

Some streetcar backers, who effectively cast the 2009 measure as an overly broad and potentially costly impediment to major transit projects, concede a straight up-or-down vote on the streetcar could tap lingering public disenchantment with the plan.

"I'd say streetcar supporters would have the tougher selling job," said Gene Beaupre, a Xavier University political science instructor who has analyzed Cincinnati politics for nearly four decades. "It would take a massive educational campaign to get across why the issue is larger and offers more benefits than just a streetcar running along a certain track. If voters know only what they know now, the streetcar loses."

First, however, streetcar opponents might have to win in court.

City officials question the legality of a second ballot challenge, noting that City Council approved the project last summer when it voted to accept state and federal grants and to issue $64 million in local bonds to finance it.

Those actions, City Solicitor John Curp said, may preclude any new attempt to use the ballot to "undo the votes that already have been taken."

"Once money is appropriated, you can't unspend the money," Curp said. "It's already done."

Chris Finney, a lawyer and founder of the anti-tax group Citizens Opposed to Additional Spending and Taxes, has a completely opposite interpretation. "Citizens can stop almost anything government does, almost any time," he said. "If we have to litigate to make that point, we will."

Under Ohio law, charter amendments must be placed on the ballot within 60 to 120 days after petitions are certified by the city. If streetcar opponents gather the required signatures within the next month - a timetable Smitherman calls "difficult but achievable" - that would clear the way for a vote as early as May.

For opponents, a May election offers the strategic advantage of coming before substantial streetcar construction has been completed, perhaps before work has even begun.

But it also has a significant downside, because with no other major issues on the spring ballot, it could cost Cincinnati about $400,000 to put a measure before voters then, according to Sally Krisel, director of the Hamilton County Board of Elections.

Waiting until November, however, would give city leaders an additional six months to make a sizable initial expenditure and lock in construction contracts, reinforcing their argument that a second ballot effort would be a disruptive waste of money and effort.

"It would be reckless on their part to go ahead," Smitherman counters. "But if they do and this is stopped in November, anything that's incomplete or wasted would be incomplete or wasted because they consciously chose to rush ahead before voters made their decision."

Like other streetcar supporters, Cincinnati Mayor Mark Mallory insists voters already made their decision - in 2009.

"This battle has already been fought," Mallory said. "They're opposed to wasting money, right? Well, we'll have spent a lot of money by May and a lot more by November. So if they want to waste a lot of money, the best way to do that is by putting this on the ballot a second time."

http://news.cincinnati.com/apps/pbcs.dll...101200331/
 
01-19-2011 11:08 PM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
Wow, even the naacp in cincy won't support trying to better predominately black neighborhoods. I guess we shouldn't ever be surprised at cincy's inability to grow as an urban center
 
01-23-2011 01:22 PM
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RE: Kasich: Passenger rail 'is dead'
You live in Chicago where there is a real system in place. Dont mistake this as a real system. This wasn't. #1 reason the vast majority here doesn't want this bs system they tried to shoe horn. Has nothing to do with politics. Just practicality.

If it had been a real, sustainable system people would have supported it. I would have. And will if they put one on the table. This plan was a complete half a$$ed joke.
 
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01-24-2011 01:41 PM
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