(09-06-2011 10:59 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The poor man's drink of choice in DeKalb is never Natty Light, it is always Old Milwaukee. Commonly referred to as "The Beast."

Keep your elitist Natty Light to your East Coast county clubs, you pinky extending latte hipsters.

Actually, "The Beast" is Milwaukee's Best, not Old Milwaukee.

I never could keep em straight.

(09-06-2011 10:59 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  The poor man's drink of choice in DeKalb is never Natty Light, it is always Old Milwaukee. Commonly referred to as "The Beast."

Keep your elitist Natty Light to your East Coast county clubs, you pinky extending latte hipsters.

FTW...

(09-06-2011 09:24 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(09-05-2011 11:26 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  The Collective Bargaining Agreement that the USPS signed has guaranteed hours and layoff restrictions. Last month the USPS said it needed to layoff 120,000 workers, which would require Congress to break the contracts to keep things going.

Even if the House votes for it, the Senate wont pass it.

Its another manufactured political issue for Obama to use to 'blame Republicans" and motivate his Union base.

We will have another 11th hour deal to "avert the closure of the Post Office"...

Why do they need to throw out the entire agreement when they can just modify one clause in the contract to allow for a larger number of layoffs? The USPS wants to change the terms for the currently retired employees, and people close to retirement as well. That is a HUGE part of the reason why the union is fighting so much. If Congress allows them to essentially strip the current retirees out of the current Federal pension plan then you will see people going postal on them. Those people are already in the system, the money is already there for them to retire. Pulling it out now and allow the USPS to govern the money themselves would be like Congress borrowing from SS. Not in the best interest of the people who worked their time and now are retired.

See, what you are missing is that these tea baggers don't give a rats ass what they have earned.

Rob you have to be the dumbest troll ever to hit these boards. It's financial fact that the USPS is insolvent. Try to stick to the real topic.

The majority of us probably now do most bill paying online. Much of what the USPS is delivering nowdays is junk mail. The volume of mail has gone down dramatically in the past 5 years. The postal system is becoming like buggy whip makers, kind of obsolete.

But go ahead and blame the TP if it makes your miserable life feel better.

i don't see why we have any need for the USPS. It should've been sold off ages ago. I suppose old people would be hurt, but people my age have no need for the postal service

(09-06-2011 03:03 PM)flyingswoosh Wrote:  i don't see why we have any need for the USPS. It should've been sold off ages ago. I suppose old people would be hurt, but people my age have no need for the postal service

Essentially it was. It was spun off in the early 70s but congress remained in control of price increases and the President names the Postmaster General. They haven't gotten federal support in decades.

Here are the main problems with efficiency with the Post Office:

1. It's unionized
2. It has government's hands all over it.

Either one of those is enough to make something difficult, but both guarantee failure. And if that's not bad enough, unlike 30 years ago, they have competition where efficiency reigns supreme. Name anything associated with government or unions that encourage efficiency?

If you have a massive change in USPS you will have to amend lots of laws and procedural rules that deal with service , dates of deemed service etc. For example I know at least 15 rules that are different for a postmark then if you send it FedEx

The postal service has gone out of the way to change its back end business. All kinds of machines reading text, both hand written and computer printed. Their issues is that they have not been allowed to align themselves with the way business runs now. Less delivery days per week for 1st class mail (not talking about priority mail or packages) and higher prices are needed but our geniuses in congress prevent them from doing either. Obviously being allowed to lay off more employees is in their best interest as well. At some point I expect congress to give in, the question is whether they do it before or after the USPS goes belly-up.

Had to repost on this since I know a lot about this (I've worked for the USPS in both a quasi consultant's role and hands on for seven years now). USPS is being destroyed by its unions and management (their current Postmaster General isn't bad but he needs to lay off the negative publicity he's helping spread with all the horror reports). But the auto industry bounced back from its near collapse and the USPS can as well.

UPS is doing well because all they handle are packages which are profitable and a million times easier to deliver. But they and Fed Ex don't bother with the smaller, less profitable packages, or the ones in rural areas. They dump them off at the post office. Fed Ex doesn't have a union. UPS has a real weak one - they pay well but they have long hours and force a lot of work on much fewer employees than you'd expect. UPS and Fed Ex also have a ton less supervisors on average than the USPS.

1st class mail for USPS is way, way down. But packages are up and they will continue to be so as more and more retailers shut down their physical presence. Lose the USPS and we also lose all magazines, bulk mailing operators, all passport operations of note, government checks (including some unemployment, tax refunds, and parental payouts from divorced couples). The USPS is also how a lot of government correspondence is handled - IRS, FEMA, prisons, and perhaps most important, military. Did you know students at the Army, Navy, Air Force, etc., can't use email? They can send letters home. USPS is the nation's 2nd largest employer (behind Walmart). It's probably second to Walmart in minority employment and may be number one in terms of employees who are military veterans.

I'm fine with five day delivery although I think the post office should do some limited parcel delivery on Saturdays. They need to reduce the delivery schedule for truly rural areas to less than 5 days. They need to streamline their employees with this reduced volume and work schedule. And they need an overhaul with the retirement pre-funding, worker's comp, and excess of management types. Door to door mail service needs to be eliminated for all residents (keep it for businesses). Instead, use the NBUs (the mail box clusters with 10-20 boxes in one location). Sorry individual mail boxes just don't cut it anymore with this type of lower volume.

Believe it or not, the post office is doing a decent job streamlining its company and modernizing its operations - they just have a long way to go and employees who are fighting the changes because they enjoy being paid a full salary (and overly generous benefits) for half a days work. I can't blame them for wanting to get paid 50-60K a year for a part time job. But if they want to make that money, they need to do about 30-40 pct more work on average than they're doing currently.

And here's another radical idea for them to consider. Try to get an oil and gas industry to sponsor a letters to home project for our nation's youth. Kids today have no idea how to write properly. Email isn't the same (much ruder and less personal), and texting is a joke. Will future generations even know how to spell words if they're not abbreviations? If we could have millions of students writing letters and essays home to parents, relatives or friends for a grade; and perhaps even ask their parents and friends to respond with a letter back (in an accompany pre-paid envelope), that would both help the USPS and help educate our students at the same time.

USPS won't ever be as profitable as the auto industry is now. But they'll be okay if they can do some of these radical changes. I also think if the economy doesn't improve, many folks are going to have to cut back on non-essentials. And one of those might be your internet service or 3 or 4 phones for each household. The post office is free to use (outside of the cost of the postage) so it's not out of the realm of possibility that people abandon some email and texting in the future out of necessity. And finally I'd have to say email is losing its luster too. Do people still use it as much as they used to? Too much junk email if you ask me.

All I know is if Groupon can float out a billion dollar IPO and people trash the post office at the same time, life is lunacy. Groupon is electronic junk mail - no more, no less.

(09-07-2011 05:03 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Believe it or not, the post office is doing a decent job streamlining its company and modernizing its operations - they just have a long way to go and employees who are fighting the changes because they enjoy being paid a full salary (and overly generous benefits) for half a days work. I can't blame them for wanting to get paid 50-60K a year for a part time job. But if they want to make that money, they need to do about 30-40 pct more work on average than they're doing currently.

Unless they are working OT they aren't making 50-60K. My dad retired after more than 30 years in the USPS, his last full year he made $42K. Not exactly a high paying job... his retirement is even worse. He doesn't complain, he knew what he was getting into. He just doesn't want to see the USPS take over his retirement fund as he has no trust in the management there (nor should he). To be honest, the Postmaster Generals who have been in charge for the past 20-30 years generally have been trying to get rid of the post office to begin with...

On a side note, if there is a union with less power than any of the postal unions I'd like to see it. They have no authority to strike, therefore they have no bargaining power. I don't see where you could say they have too strong of a union. There is 1 clause in the contract that is causing the problem, and it was put in by congress in the 1970s to protect the longer term employees as the USPS was being taken off of the US gov't's payroll.

(09-07-2011 08:21 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(09-07-2011 05:03 AM)Fort Bend Owl Wrote:  Believe it or not, the post office is doing a decent job streamlining its company and modernizing its operations - they just have a long way to go and employees who are fighting the changes because they enjoy being paid a full salary (and overly generous benefits) for half a days work. I can't blame them for wanting to get paid 50-60K a year for a part time job. But if they want to make that money, they need to do about 30-40 pct more work on average than they're doing currently.

Unless they are working OT they aren't making 50-60K. My dad retired after more than 30 years in the USPS, his last full year he made $42K. payroll.

Umm seasons postal carriers make 56K a year without overtime

Apparently the carriers make more than the clerks back in the sorting centers and in the actual PO.

(09-07-2011 10:00 AM)mlb Wrote:  Apparently the carriers make more than the clerks back in the sorting centers and in the actual PO.

In 2006, the median annual salary of Postal Service mail processors was $43,900. Earnings ranged from $40,350 to $47,440 for the middle 50 percent. The top 10 percent of mail sorters and processors earned more than $49,570.

In 2006 the median annual salary of Postal Service clerks was $44,800. Earnings ranged from $41,720 to $47,890 for the middle 50 percent. The top 10 percent earned more than $49,750.

Cant find anything from 2010 but I am assuming they have each crosses the 50K threshold..

He retired in 2006, so those numbers would match what he was making. I'm surprised it has gone up that much.

Either way, I still believe the contract should be modified to allow them to lay off as many employees is needed, but I don't think it has to be thrown out completely.