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Obama caves in to the Russians
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-18-2009 12:20 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-18-2009 09:46 AM)GGniner Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_o...defense_22
Quote:An editorial in Hospodarske Novine, a respected pro-business Czech newspaper, said: “an ally we rely on has betrayed us, and exchanged us for its own, better relations with Russia, of which we are rightly afraid.”…

“No Radar. Russia won,” the largest Czech daily, Mlada Fronta Dnes, declared in a front-page headline.
"pro-business Czech newspaper". Those are the key words in your post. Those words basically mean that it is a rightwing pro-military newspaper so the position is not surprising.

You support the Fringe Media here, but claim bias on the part of the Media over there. Having it both ways hey, roberta
09-18-2009 12:28 PM
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I45owl Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-18-2009 12:20 PM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-18-2009 09:46 AM)GGniner Wrote:  http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090918/ap_o...defense_22
Quote:An editorial in Hospodarske Novine, a respected pro-business Czech newspaper, said: “an ally we rely on has betrayed us, and exchanged us for its own, better relations with Russia, of which we are rightly afraid.”…

“No Radar. Russia won,” the largest Czech daily, Mlada Fronta Dnes, declared in a front-page headline.
"pro-business Czech newspaper". Those are the key words in your post. Those words basically mean that it is a rightwing pro-military newspaper so the position is not surprising.

Thus validating the fact that - in your perception - anything moderate or mainstream is inherently anti-business. That doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know about you, but it does formalize it.
09-18-2009 01:42 PM
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NIU05 Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-17-2009 02:07 PM)Tripster Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 12:30 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There are no enemies............... just competeting interests. The trick is to align those interests. The guy's above are living in the 70's stuck in the cold war. The military inductrial complex is a formidable beast because of this mentality.

I can tell you've never fought in a War if you honestly think this way.

We have many many enemies and they are not ashamed to admit it either.

There are no "Competing Interest" when you are on the wrong end of a Russian or Chicom AK47 or Dragunov Rifle.

The powers that control them may be working the scene like the back door at the Stock Market, but the Grunt in the Field believes he is Fighting a War for his Cause ..... and that makes his tiny ass an "ENEMY".

.

Machiavelli gives the logic as to there are no standards...there is no right or wrong ...... there are just different "interests" ....how quaint.... and such left wing BS.
09-18-2009 08:09 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-18-2009 08:09 PM)NIU05 Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 02:07 PM)Tripster Wrote:  
(09-17-2009 12:30 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  There are no enemies............... just competeting interests. The trick is to align those interests. The guy's above are living in the 70's stuck in the cold war. The military inductrial complex is a formidable beast because of this mentality.

I can tell you've never fought in a War if you honestly think this way.

We have many many enemies and they are not ashamed to admit it either.

There are no "Competing Interest" when you are on the wrong end of a Russian or Chicom AK47 or Dragunov Rifle.

The powers that control them may be working the scene like the back door at the Stock Market, but the Grunt in the Field believes he is Fighting a War for his Cause ..... and that makes his tiny ass an "ENEMY".

.

Machiavelli gives the logic as to there are no standards...there is no right or wrong ...... there are just different "interests" ....how quaint.... and such left wing BS.

Not only quaint, but childish, absurd and naiveté.
(This post was last modified: 09-18-2009 08:42 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
09-18-2009 08:41 PM
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Tripster Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
.

Well all the World Reveled on and just after 20 January 2009 with all these "Yes WE Can" parades and parties and even shed Tears of Freedom and Happiness that Father Barack had come down from above to deliver us all from the depths of the utter gutter despair we were rutted in.

I don't believe the Same Feeling Exist for Father Barack today as they did just 7 Short Months Ago and he has lost all Credibility with EVERYONE EVERYWHERE.

And HEY !!!!!!!!! It was his to lose dudes ...... he started out with an A++ and has failed in absolutely every crevice of National and International Affairs.

Father Barack is just a Chump off the Block that is playing blind in the dark and it is making us very very unsafe.

"Yes WE Can" ,,,,,, "WELL NO WE DIDN'T and WE AIN'T GONNA EITHER".

.
09-18-2009 11:13 PM
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At Ease Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
Quote:A Better Missile Defense for a Safer Europe

By ROBERT M. GATES
Published: September 19, 2009

Washington

THE future of missile defense in Europe is secure. This reality is contrary to what some critics have alleged about President Obama’s proposed shift in America’s missile-defense plans on the continent — and it is important to understand how and why.

First, to be clear, there is now no strategic missile defense in Europe. In December 2006, just days after becoming secretary of defense, I recommended to President George W. Bush that the United States place 10 ground-based interceptors in Poland and an advanced radar in the Czech Republic. This system was designed to identify and destroy up to about five long-range missiles potentially armed with nuclear warheads fired from the Middle East — the greatest and most likely danger being from Iran. At the time, it was the best plan based on the technology and threat assessment available.

That plan would have put the radar and interceptors in Central Europe by 2015 at the earliest. Delays in the Polish and Czech ratification process extended that schedule by at least two years. Which is to say, under the previous program, there would have been no missile-defense system able to protect against Iranian missiles until at least 2017 — and likely much later.

Last week, President Obama — on my recommendation and with the advice of his national-security team and the unanimous support of our senior military leadership — decided to discard that plan in favor of a vastly more suitable approach. In the first phase, to be completed by 2011, we will deploy proven, sea-based SM-3 interceptor missiles — weapons that are growing in capability — in the areas where we see the greatest threat to Europe.

The second phase, which will become operational around 2015, will involve putting upgraded SM-3s on the ground in Southern and Central Europe. All told, every phase of this plan will include scores of SM-3 missiles, as opposed to the old plan of just 10 ground-based interceptors. This will be a far more effective defense should an enemy fire many missiles simultaneously — the kind of attack most likely to occur as Iran continues to build and deploy numerous short- and medium-range weapons. At the same time, plans to defend virtually all of Europe and enhance the missile defense of the United States will continue on about the same schedule as the earlier plan as we build this system over time, creating an increasingly greater zone of protection.

Steady technological advances in our missile defense program — from kill vehicles to the abilities to network radars and sensors — give us confidence in this plan. The SM-3 has had eight successful tests since 2007, and we will continue to develop it to give it the capacity to intercept long-range missiles like ICBMs. It is now more than able to deal with the threat from multiple short- and medium-range missiles — a very real threat to our allies and some 80,000 American troops based in Europe that was not addressed by the previous plan. Even so, our military will continue research and development on a two-stage ground-based interceptor, the kind that was planned to be put in Poland, as a back-up.

Moreover, a fixed radar site like the one previously envisioned for the Czech Republic would be far less adaptable than the airborne, space- and ground-based sensors we now plan to use. These systems provide much more accurate data, offer more early warning and tracking options, and have stronger networking capacity — a key factor in any system that relies on partner countries. This system can also better use radars that are already operating across the globe, like updated cold war-era installations, our newer arrays based on high-powered X-band radar, allied systems and possibly even Russian radars.

One criticism of this plan is that we are relying too much on new intelligence holding that Iran is focusing more on short- and medium-range weapons and not progressing on intercontinental missiles. Having spent most of my career at the C.I.A., I am all too familiar with the pitfalls of over-reliance on intelligence assessments that can become outdated. As Gen. James Cartwright, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said a few days ago, we would be surprised if the assessments did not change because “the enemy gets a vote.”

The new approach to European missile defense actually provides us with greater flexibility to adapt as new threats develop and old ones recede. For example, the new proposal provides some antimissile capacity very soon — a hedge against Iran’s managing to field missiles much earlier than had been previously predicted. The old plan offered nothing for almost a decade.

Those who say we are scrapping missile defense in Europe are either misinformed or misrepresenting what we are doing. This shift has even been distorted as some sort of concession to Russia, which has fiercely opposed the old plan. Russia’s attitude and possible reaction played no part in my recommendation to the president on this issue. Of course, considering Russia’s past hostility toward American missile defense in Europe, if Russia’s leaders embrace this plan, then that will be an unexpected — and welcome — change of policy on their part. But in any case the facts are clear: American missile defense on the continent will continue, and not just in Central Europe, the most likely location for future SM-3 sites, but, we hope, in other NATO countries as well.

This proposal is, simply put, a better way forward — as was recognized by Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland when he called it “a chance for strengthening Europe’s security.” It is a very real manifestation of our continued commitment to our NATO allies in Europe — iron-clad proof that the United States believes that the alliance must remain firm.

I am often characterized as “pragmatic.” I believe this is a very pragmatic proposal. I have found since taking this post that when it comes to missile defense, some hold a view bordering on theology that regards any change of plans or any cancellation of a program as abandonment or even breaking faith. I encountered this in the debate over the Defense Department’s budget for the fiscal year 2010 when I ended three programs: the airborne laser, the multiple-kill vehicle and the kinetic energy interceptor. All were plainly unworkable, prohibitively expensive and could never be practically deployed — but had nonetheless acquired a devoted following.

I have been a strong supporter of missile defense ever since President Ronald Reagan first proposed it in 1983. But I want to have real capacity as soon as possible, and to take maximum advantage of new technologies to combat future threats.

The bottom line is that there will be American missile defense in Europe to protect our troops there and our NATO allies. The new proposal provides needed capacity years earlier than the original plan, and will provide even more robust protection against longer-range threats on about the same timeline as the previous program. We are strengthening — not scrapping — missile defense in Europe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinio...anted=1&hp
09-20-2009 03:50 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-20-2009 03:50 PM)At Ease Wrote:  
Quote:A Better Missile Defense for a Safer Europe

By ROBERT M. GATES
Published: September 19, 2009

Washington

THE future of missile defense in Europe is secure. This reality is contrary to what some critics have alleged about President Obama’s proposed shift in America’s missile-defense plans on the continent — and it is important to understand how and why.

First, to be clear, there is now no strategic missile defense in Europe. In December 2006, just days after becoming secretary of defense, I recommended to President George W. Bush that the United States place 10 ground-based interceptors in Poland and an advanced radar in the Czech Republic. This system was designed to identify and destroy up to about five long-range missiles potentially armed with nuclear warheads fired from the Middle East — the greatest and most likely danger being from Iran. At the time, it was the best plan based on the technology and threat assessment available.

That plan would have put the radar and interceptors in Central Europe by 2015 at the earliest. Delays in the Polish and Czech ratification process extended that schedule by at least two years. Which is to say, under the previous program, there would have been no missile-defense system able to protect against Iranian missiles until at least 2017 — and likely much later.

Last week, President Obama — on my recommendation and with the advice of his national-security team and the unanimous support of our senior military leadership — decided to discard that plan in favor of a vastly more suitable approach. In the first phase, to be completed by 2011, we will deploy proven, sea-based SM-3 interceptor missiles — weapons that are growing in capability — in the areas where we see the greatest threat to Europe.

The second phase, which will become operational around 2015, will involve putting upgraded SM-3s on the ground in Southern and Central Europe. All told, every phase of this plan will include scores of SM-3 missiles, as opposed to the old plan of just 10 ground-based interceptors. This will be a far more effective defense should an enemy fire many missiles simultaneously — the kind of attack most likely to occur as Iran continues to build and deploy numerous short- and medium-range weapons. At the same time, plans to defend virtually all of Europe and enhance the missile defense of the United States will continue on about the same schedule as the earlier plan as we build this system over time, creating an increasingly greater zone of protection.

Steady technological advances in our missile defense program — from kill vehicles to the abilities to network radars and sensors — give us confidence in this plan. The SM-3 has had eight successful tests since 2007, and we will continue to develop it to give it the capacity to intercept long-range missiles like ICBMs. It is now more than able to deal with the threat from multiple short- and medium-range missiles — a very real threat to our allies and some 80,000 American troops based in Europe that was not addressed by the previous plan. Even so, our military will continue research and development on a two-stage ground-based interceptor, the kind that was planned to be put in Poland, as a back-up.

Moreover, a fixed radar site like the one previously envisioned for the Czech Republic would be far less adaptable than the airborne, space- and ground-based sensors we now plan to use. These systems provide much more accurate data, offer more early warning and tracking options, and have stronger networking capacity — a key factor in any system that relies on partner countries. This system can also better use radars that are already operating across the globe, like updated cold war-era installations, our newer arrays based on high-powered X-band radar, allied systems and possibly even Russian radars.

One criticism of this plan is that we are relying too much on new intelligence holding that Iran is focusing more on short- and medium-range weapons and not progressing on intercontinental missiles. Having spent most of my career at the C.I.A., I am all too familiar with the pitfalls of over-reliance on intelligence assessments that can become outdated. As Gen. James Cartwright, the vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said a few days ago, we would be surprised if the assessments did not change because “the enemy gets a vote.”

The new approach to European missile defense actually provides us with greater flexibility to adapt as new threats develop and old ones recede. For example, the new proposal provides some antimissile capacity very soon — a hedge against Iran’s managing to field missiles much earlier than had been previously predicted. The old plan offered nothing for almost a decade.

Those who say we are scrapping missile defense in Europe are either misinformed or misrepresenting what we are doing. This shift has even been distorted as some sort of concession to Russia, which has fiercely opposed the old plan. Russia’s attitude and possible reaction played no part in my recommendation to the president on this issue. Of course, considering Russia’s past hostility toward American missile defense in Europe, if Russia’s leaders embrace this plan, then that will be an unexpected — and welcome — change of policy on their part. But in any case the facts are clear: American missile defense on the continent will continue, and not just in Central Europe, the most likely location for future SM-3 sites, but, we hope, in other NATO countries as well.

This proposal is, simply put, a better way forward — as was recognized by Prime Minister Donald Tusk of Poland when he called it “a chance for strengthening Europe’s security.” It is a very real manifestation of our continued commitment to our NATO allies in Europe — iron-clad proof that the United States believes that the alliance must remain firm.

I am often characterized as “pragmatic.” I believe this is a very pragmatic proposal. I have found since taking this post that when it comes to missile defense, some hold a view bordering on theology that regards any change of plans or any cancellation of a program as abandonment or even breaking faith. I encountered this in the debate over the Defense Department’s budget for the fiscal year 2010 when I ended three programs: the airborne laser, the multiple-kill vehicle and the kinetic energy interceptor. All were plainly unworkable, prohibitively expensive and could never be practically deployed — but had nonetheless acquired a devoted following.

I have been a strong supporter of missile defense ever since President Ronald Reagan first proposed it in 1983. But I want to have real capacity as soon as possible, and to take maximum advantage of new technologies to combat future threats.

The bottom line is that there will be American missile defense in Europe to protect our troops there and our NATO allies. The new proposal provides needed capacity years earlier than the original plan, and will provide even more robust protection against longer-range threats on about the same timeline as the previous program. We are strengthening — not scrapping — missile defense in Europe.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/20/opinio...anted=1&hp
He lies! 03-lmfao
09-20-2009 04:21 PM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
Read this a Russian point of view.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=388588
09-20-2009 05:31 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-20-2009 05:31 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  Read this a Russian point of view.

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=388588
I didn't know you were Russian? I guess that is why you keep it to yourself. You wouldn't want these "patriotic Americans" of the right on here to know that you secretly are a commie. 03-lmfao
09-20-2009 05:49 PM
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Paul M Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
The Russians aren't commies any more. They are embracing Capitalism more than we are recently. The commies are all here.
09-20-2009 06:36 PM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-20-2009 06:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  The Russians aren't commies any more. They are embracing Capitalism more than we are recently. The commies are all here.

That is true of China as well as Russia, unfortunately.
09-20-2009 06:42 PM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-20-2009 06:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  The Russians aren't commies any more. They are embracing Capitalism more than we are recently. The commies are all here.
Then why are you so scared of them?
09-21-2009 01:52 AM
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Tripster Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-21-2009 01:52 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-20-2009 06:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  The Russians aren't commies any more. They are embracing Capitalism more than we are recently. The commies are all here.
Then why are you so scared of them?

I fear NO MAN, but it does concern me that by just 2015 (that's just 5 Years Away), 80% of the Russian Military will be devote Muslims Robert !!!!!!!!!

Maybe if you turned off MsNBC for a second and learned something, you would know that I would rather fight a Principled Communist in a Real Uniform that is NO COWARD than some Sharia Freak in a Dress hiding under the Skirts of Little Girls for more reasons than one !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fight an Enemy that hides among the indigenous population like in Vietnam with the VC, the Viet Minh, and the Khmer Rouge, the Cambodians and having a good fire fight with an Actual Uniformed North Vietnamese Unit was a f*cking TREAT !!!!!!!!!

The more you post, the more I see how much of a shielded child you are and an absolute know nothing from REAL EXPERIENCE !!!!!!!

.
09-21-2009 02:03 AM
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RobertN Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-21-2009 02:03 AM)Tripster Wrote:  
(09-21-2009 01:52 AM)RobertN Wrote:  
(09-20-2009 06:36 PM)Paul M Wrote:  The Russians aren't commies any more. They are embracing Capitalism more than we are recently. The commies are all here.
Then why are you so scared of them?

I fear NO MAN, but it does concern me that by just 2015 (that's just 5 Years Away), 80% of the Russian Military will be devote Muslims Robert !!!!!!!!!

Maybe if you turned off MsNBC for a second and learned something, you would know that I would rather fight a Principled Communist in a Real Uniform that is NO COWARD than some Sharia Freak in a Dress hiding under the Skirts of Little Girls for more reasons than one !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fight an Enemy that hides among the indigenous population like in Vietnam with the VC, the Viet Minh, and the Khmer Rouge, the Cambodians and having a good fire fight with an Actual Uniformed North Vietnamese Unit was a f*cking TREAT !!!!!!!!!

The more you post, the more I see how much of a shielded child you are and an absolute know nothing from REAL EXPERIENCE !!!!!!!

.
So you are scared of them. Just as I thought. Btw, where did you get this idea that the Russian military was going to be made up of 80% your boogeymen-I mean Muslims. I would guess Faux News or maybe some far rightwing blog?
09-21-2009 02:28 AM
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Tripster Offline
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Post: #55
RE: Obama caves in to the Russians
(09-21-2009 02:28 AM)RobertN Wrote:  So you are scared of them. Just as I thought. Btw, where did you get this idea that the Russian military was going to be made up of 80% your boogeymen-I mean Muslims. I would guess Faux News or maybe some far rightwing blog?

Robert, I fear No Man for a Man can not harm me even though he put me to death.

It should concern all Non-Muslims that 80% of one of the Largest Armed and Mechanized Military's on Earth will be predominantly Sharia Muslim in just 5 Short Years.

These are Iranian Troops that hate Sunni Muslims and Kurds - - - how this can not cause you to pause and think beyond your Keith Orgreman Rants and see how bloody and nasty this is going to be is way beyond my Pay Grade to quote the Famous Father Barack.

I neither fear Death or any Man that come to cause it upon me and I have proven that many many many times over and over.

I am not like you Robert, Death to me is just another passage way to another existence and once your Earthly Body is stripped of life, there is the Soul to go to it's next Existence ..... so why fear what is going to happen to us all eventually anyway ?????

Be it from Old Age or a Bullet, Death is Death and that is the most Absolute you will ever be, is DEAD.

And your no Sharia Muslim so your head is worth no more than mine is homze - - you best learn to fight or learn to bow down like a dog and lick some Sharia Feet to keep that Fat Head on your Shoulders.

War is coming dude and almost every nation in Europe will be Predominantly Muslim by 2025 to 2035 and that counts Military's and the whole shootin' match.

Fear, not after all the Blood and Guts I have sloshed thru ,,,, concern for the World at Large YES !!!!!!!

.
09-21-2009 03:00 AM
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