http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...02818.html

Quote:Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that "information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' " In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.

The memo notes that "[i]nterrogations of [Abu] Zubaydah -- again, once enhanced techniques were employed -- furnished detailed information regarding al Qaeda's 'organizational structure, key operatives, and modus operandi' and identified KSM as the mastermind of the September 11 attacks." This information helped the intelligence community plan the operation that captured KSM. It went on: "Zubaydah and KSM also supplied important information about al-Zarqawi and his network" in Iraq, which helped our operations against al-Qaeda in that country.

All this confirms information that I and others have described publicly. But just as the memo begins to describe previously undisclosed details of what enhanced interrogations achieved, the page is almost entirely blacked out. The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

nice to see Cheney call Obama's bluff yesterday, no telling what we may learn in coming months(that we'd probably shouldn't, but might as well at this point)

How to Save L.A. - Pour a little water on KSM's face

Seems perfectly reasonable to me. I'd like to hear, once again, from those who think otherwise.

Funny he doesn't mention what they did to Abu Zubaydah... they pumped him full of drugs and he thought he was in Saudi Arabian custody. He tells the fake Saudis-- "call these three Princes- they will tell you what to do with me"..

From that we learned the "real" connection between the Saudis and AQ. It may be a coincidence, but the Princes named by Abu Zubaydah died under mysterious circumstances less than a year later.

(04-21-2009 12:12 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Funny he doesn't mention what they did to Abu Zubaydah... they pumped him full of drugs and he thought he was in Saudi Arabian custody. He tells the fake Saudis-- "call these three Princes- they will tell you what to do with me"..

From that we learned the "real" connection between the Saudis and AQ. It may be a coincidence, but the Princes named by Abu Zubaydah died under mysterious circumstances less than a year later.

That also seems perfectly reasonable to me.

(04-21-2009 12:12 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Funny he doesn't mention what they did to Abu Zubaydah... they pumped him full of drugs and he thought he was in Saudi Arabian custody. He tells the fake Saudis-- "call these three Princes- they will tell you what to do with me"..

From that we learned the "real" connection between the Saudis and AQ. It may be a coincidence, but the Princes named by Abu Zubaydah died under mysterious circumstances less than a year later.

interesting...and the connection?

one day this could all make for an excellent movie. till then we'll get nothing but horrible, moral relavitism and hand wringing from hollywood with a handfull of conspiracy theories thrown in.

although with Obama in office, we may get another "Three Kings", from back when Clooney and the left thought Saddam needed to be removed from power

sounds like Jack Bauer saving L.A. on 24(multiple times) was a real case of Art Imitating Life

(04-21-2009 11:37 AM)GGniner Wrote:  All this confirms information that I and others have described publicly. But just as the memo begins to describe previously undisclosed details of what enhanced interrogations achieved, the page is almost entirely blacked out. The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

Is it just me or does Obama spend more time and effort on trying to make Bush look bad than he does trying to make this country good?

(04-21-2009 12:30 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(04-21-2009 12:12 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  Funny he doesn't mention what they did to Abu Zubaydah... they pumped him full of drugs and he thought he was in Saudi Arabian custody. He tells the fake Saudis-- "call these three Princes- they will tell you what to do with me"..

From that we learned the "real" connection between the Saudis and AQ. It may be a coincidence, but the Princes named by Abu Zubaydah died under mysterious circumstances less than a year later.

interesting...and the connection?

one day this could all make for an excellent movie. till then we'll get nothing but horrible, moral relavitism and hand wringing from hollywood with a handfull of conspiracy theories thrown in.

although with Obama in office, we may get another "Three Kings", from back when Clooney and the left thought Saddam needed to be removed from power

Posner elaborates in startling detail how U.S. interrogators used drugs—an unnamed "quick-on, quick-off" painkiller and Sodium Pentothal, the old movie truth serum—in a chemical version of reward and punishment to make Zubaydah talk. When questioning stalled, according to Posner, cia men flew Zubaydah to an Afghan complex fitted out as a fake Saudi jail chamber, where "two Arab-Americans, now with Special Forces," pretending to be Saudi inquisitors, used drugs and threats to scare him into more confessions.

Yet when Zubaydah was confronted by the false Saudis, writes Posner, "his reaction was not fear, but utter relief." Happy to see them, he reeled off telephone numbers for a senior member of the royal family who would, said Zubaydah, "tell you what to do." The man at the other end would be Prince Ahmed bin Salman bin Abdul Aziz, a Westernized nephew of King Fahd's and a publisher better known as a racehorse� owner. His horse War Emblem won the Kentucky Derby in 2002. To the amazement of the U.S., the numbers proved valid. When the fake inquisitors accused Zubaydah of lying, he responded with a 10-minute monologue laying out the Saudi-Pakistani-bin Laden triangle.

Zubaydah, writes Posner, said the Saudi connection ran through Prince Turki al-Faisal bin Abdul Aziz, the kingdom's longtime intelligence chief. Zubaydah said bin Laden "personally" told him of a 1991 meeting at which Turki agreed to let bin Laden leave Saudi Arabia and to provide him with secret funds as long as al-Qaeda refrained from promoting jihad in the kingdom. The Pakistani contact, high-ranking air force officer Mushaf Ali Mir, entered the equation, Zubaydah said, at a 1996 meeting in Pakistan also attended by Zubaydah. Bin Laden struck a deal with Mir, then in the military but tied closely to Islamists in Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (isi), to get protection, arms and supplies for al-Qaeda. Zubaydah told interrogators bin Laden said the arrangement was "blessed by the Saudis."

Zubaydah said he attended a third meeting in Kandahar in 1998 with Turki, senior isi agents and Taliban officials. There Turki promised, writes Posner, that "more Saudi aid would flow to the Taliban, and the Saudis would never ask for bin Laden's extradition, so long as al-Qaeda kept its long-standing promise to direct fundamentalism away from the kingdom." In Posner's stark judgment, the Saudis "effectively had (bin Laden) on their payroll since the start of the decade." Zubaydah told the interrogators that the Saudis regularly sent the funds through three royal-prince intermediaries he named.

The last eight paragraphs of the book set up a final startling development. Those three Saudi princes all perished within days of one another. On July 22, 2002, Prince Ahmed was felled by a heart attack at age 43. One day later Prince Sultan bin Faisal bin Turki al-Saud, 41, was killed in what was called a high-speed car accident. The last member of the trio, Prince Fahd bin Turki bin Saud al-Kabir, officially "died of thirst" while traveling east of Riyadh one week later. And seven months after that, Mushaf Ali Mir, by then Pakistan's Air Marshal, perished in a plane crash in clear weather over the unruly North-West Frontier province, along with his wife and closest confidants.

Without charging any skulduggery (Posner told TIME they "may in fact be coincidences"), the author notes that these deaths occurred after cia officials passed along Zubaydah's accusations to Riyadh and Islamabad. Washington, reports Posner, was shocked when Zubaydah claimed that "9/11 changed nothing" about the clandestine marriage of terrorism and Saudi and Pakistani interests, "because both Prince Ahmed and Mir knew that an attack was scheduled for American soil on that day." They couldn't stop it or warn the U.S. in advance, Zubaydah said, because they didn't know what or where the attack would be. And they couldn't turn on bin Laden afterward because he could expose their prior knowledge. Both capitals swiftly assured Washington that "they had thoroughly investigated the claims and they were false and malicious."


http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl...26,00.html

interesting, before the left decided they would play politics and protect certain oil interest along with the international left. US Senator Fritz Hollins (D-SC) put into the Senate record on Sept. 12, 2002 this little bit of info

http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/...sition=all

Saddams newspaper, Al-Nasiriyah editorial from July 23, 2001:

Quote:America says, admitting just like a bird in the midst of a tornado, that Bin Ladin is behind the bombing of its destroyer in Aden. The fearful series of events continues for America and the terror within America gets to the point that the Governor of Texas increases the amount of the award, just as the stubbornness of the other man and his challenge increases. This challenge makes it such that one of his grandchildren comes from Jeddah traveling on the official Saudi Arabia airlines and celebrates with him the marriage of one of the daughters of his companions. Bin Ladin has become a puzzle and a proof also, of the inability of the American federalism and the C.I.A. to uncover the man and uncover his nest. The most advanced organizations of the world cannot find the man and continues to go in cycles in illusion and presuppositions. They still hope that he could come out from his nest one day, they hope that he would come out from his hiding hole and one day they will point at him their missiles and he will join Guevara, Hassan Abu Salama, Kamal Nasser, Kanafani and others. The man responds with a thin smile and replies to the correspondent from Al Jazeera that he will continue to be the obsession and worry of America and the Jews, and that even that night he will practice and work on an exercise called `w Do You Bomb the White House.'' because they know that he can get there, they have started to go through their nightmares on their beds and the leaders have had to wear their bulletproof vests. Meanwhile America has started to pressure the Taliban movement so that it would hand them Bin Ladin, le he continues to smile and still thinks seriously, with the seriousness of the Bedouin of the desert about the way he will try to bomb the Pentagon after he destroys the White House .....

The phenomenon of Bin Ladin is a healthy phenomenon in the Arab spirit. It is a decision and a determination that the stolen Arab self has come to realize after it got bored with promises of its rulers: After it disgusted itself from their abomination and their corruption, the man had to carry the book of God and the Kalashnikov and write on some off white paper ``If you are unable to drive off the Marines from the Kaaba, I will do so.'' It seems that they will be going away because the revolutionary Bin Ladin is insisting very convincingly that he will strike America on the arm that is already hurting. That the man will not be swayed by the plant leaves of Whitman nor by the ``Adventures of Indiana Jones'' and will se the memory of Frank Sinatra every time he hears his songs.

In one editorial, two months before the attack, al-Nasiriyah -- tate-run newspaper for the Saddam regime -- managed to name all three attack targets for 9/11. They said that bin Laden had spent his time trying to work out how to bomb the White House, which would happen shortly before destroying the Pentagon. Then, in typically flowery Arabic fashion, the author claims that Americans will "curse the memory of Frank Sinatra", an odd reference -- unless one remembers that "New York, New York" remains Sinatra's signature song. In the event, the attack followed precisely this plan, except in reverse order: the World Trade Center went first, then the Pentagon, and the White House would likely have followed if the heroes of Flight 93 had not caused the terrorists to down the plane in Pennsylvania.

Even beyond that, the fawning tone and obvious support for Osama bin Laden in one of Saddam's newspapers belies any suggestion that the two could not find common ground for operations against their common enemy. Saddam wanted Iraqis to stand behind Osama and al-Qaeda and cheer on their attacks on the US. The author states: "This new awareness of the image that Bin Ladin has become gives shape to the resting areas and stops for every Arab revolutionary. It is the subject of our admiration here in Iraq because it shares with us in a unified manner our resisting stand, and just as he fixes his gaze on the Al Aqsa we greet him."

Let's take another look at the timeline to see where July 21, 2001 fits into it. At that point, Mohammed Atta has just met with Ramzi Binalshibh in Madrid, discussing the need to set a date for the attacks. Binalshibh claims that Atta did not do so at that meeting, but Binalshibh provides the only evidence of Atta's demurral. Five days later, Hamid Zakeri would walk into an American embassy and tell the CIA that Osama bin Laden would launch a massive attack the US on September 11, and that the attack would involve six pilots -- an attack about which he learned through his Iranian contacts.

It certainly seems that Binalshibh has created quite a disinformation campaign, and that American officials appeared determined to swallow it. In case you wondered, the 9/11 Commission makes no mention of the Iraqi predictions in its final report, to no one's great surprise.

somehow that state run newspaper knew all 3 targets, 2 months before 9/11. Obviously the powers in the Middle East knew what was going on, in some way.

(04-21-2009 11:37 AM)GGniner Wrote:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/con...02818.html

Quote:Specifically, interrogation with enhanced techniques "led to the discovery of a KSM plot, the 'Second Wave,' 'to use East Asian operatives to crash a hijacked airliner into' a building in Los Angeles." KSM later acknowledged before a military commission at Guantanamo Bay that the target was the Library Tower, the tallest building on the West Coast. The memo explains that "information obtained from KSM also led to the capture of Riduan bin Isomuddin, better known as Hambali, and the discovery of the Guraba Cell, a 17-member Jemmah Islamiyah cell tasked with executing the 'Second Wave.' " In other words, without enhanced interrogations, there could be a hole in the ground in Los Angeles to match the one in New York.

The memo notes that "[i]nterrogations of [Abu] Zubaydah -- again, once enhanced techniques were employed -- furnished detailed information regarding al Qaeda's 'organizational structure, key operatives, and modus operandi' and identified KSM as the mastermind of the September 11 attacks." This information helped the intelligence community plan the operation that captured KSM. It went on: "Zubaydah and KSM also supplied important information about al-Zarqawi and his network" in Iraq, which helped our operations against al-Qaeda in that country.

All this confirms information that I and others have described publicly. But just as the memo begins to describe previously undisclosed details of what enhanced interrogations achieved, the page is almost entirely blacked out. The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

nice to see Cheney call Obama's bluff yesterday, no telling what we may learn in coming months(that we'd probably shouldn't, but might as well at this point)

Wasn't that one of those many BS plots with grains of truth designed to scare the American people?

Doesn't this quote bother people?

Quote:The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

More than a little biased the way that this administration did this. No wonder the Big 0 had to visit Langley to soothe hard feelings.

smn1256 Wrote:Is it just me or does Obama spend more time and effort on trying to make Bush look bad than he does trying to make this country good?

That's good. That means he has less time to spend us into bankruptcy.

(04-21-2009 01:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Doesn't this quote bother people?

Quote:The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

More than a little biased the way that this administration did this. No wonder the Big 0 had to visit Langley to soothe hard feelings.

which is why Cheney is calling his bluff.

its a tight rope he's walking, trying to appease the far-left while handling national security at the same time.

(04-21-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Wasn't that one of those many BS plots with grains of truth designed to scare the American people?

of course thats it! There is absolutely no way that Al-Qaeda, after 93 WTC, Cole, embassy bombings, 9/11, etc....could ever been plotting another 'wave' of attacks, this time on the West coast.

why its all made up of course. The evil Bush Admistration decided that it would use it all as an excuse to play out its fantasies of machoism by 'torturing' brown people! And to do so, they'd put themselves through massive amounts of restraints and legal opinions setting guidelines for their bloodsport!

To cover the tracks? Why just make up this stuff in these memo's but tell the truth about the actions used instead! They were sure that Obama would come in and know how to black out the lies and releast the facts to setup their war crimes trials!

--------------


meanwhile, back in the real world of Obama playing political games. Obama himself is increasing the practice of Renditions against these same people. Which means real Torture is taking place, just in Egypt and other countries instead.

this is supposedly how an Australian politician responded to this whole debate:

Mr T. B. Bechtel, a City Councillor from Newcastle,
in Australia was asked on a local
live radio talk show, just what he thought about the allegations of the
torture of suspected Islamic terrorists.

His reply prompted his ejection from the studio, but to thunderous applause
from the audience.

HIS STATEMENT:

'If hooking up a terrorist prisoner's nuts to a car's battery
cables will save just one Australian's life, then I have just three things to
say,'

'Red is positive,

Black is negative,

and make sure his nuts are wet.'


calls for a Fosters

(04-21-2009 01:45 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  Doesn't this quote bother people?

Quote:The Obama administration released pages of unredacted classified information on the techniques used to question captured terrorist leaders but pulled out its black marker when it came to the details of what those interrogations achieved.

More than a little biased the way that this administration did this. No wonder the Big 0 had to visit Langley to soothe hard feelings.

Sounds a lot like what Bush did with Global Warming. Of course, you had no problem with that.

(04-21-2009 01:55 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(04-21-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Wasn't that one of those many BS plots with grains of truth designed to scare the American people?

of course thats it! There is absolutely no way that Al-Qaeda, after 93 WTC, Cole, embassy bombings, 9/11, etc....could ever been plotting another 'wave' of attacks, this time on the West coast.

why its all made up of course. The evil Bush Admistration decided that it would use it all as an excuse to play out its fantasies of machoism by 'torturing' brown people! And to do so, they'd put themselves through massive amounts of restraints and legal opinions setting guidelines for their bloodsport!

To cover the tracks? Why just make up this stuff in these memo's but tell the truth about the actions used instead! They were sure that Obama would come in and know how to black out the lies and releast the facts to setup their war crimes trials!

--------------


meanwhile, back in the real world of Obama playing political games. Obama himself is increasing the practice of Renditions against these same people. Which means real Torture is taking place, just in Egypt and other countries instead.

Well, Bush did make many "plots" more menacing than they really were-most of which didn't start yet or had no way of starting and was all talk. So yeah, I do question how real this "attack" was.

(04-21-2009 02:11 PM)RobertN Wrote:  

(04-21-2009 01:55 PM)GGniner Wrote:  

(04-21-2009 01:44 PM)RobertN Wrote:  Wasn't that one of those many BS plots with grains of truth designed to scare the American people?

of course thats it! There is absolutely no way that Al-Qaeda, after 93 WTC, Cole, embassy bombings, 9/11, etc....could ever been plotting another 'wave' of attacks, this time on the West coast.

why its all made up of course. The evil Bush Admistration decided that it would use it all as an excuse to play out its fantasies of machoism by 'torturing' brown people! And to do so, they'd put themselves through massive amounts of restraints and legal opinions setting guidelines for their bloodsport!

To cover the tracks? Why just make up this stuff in these memo's but tell the truth about the actions used instead! They were sure that Obama would come in and know how to black out the lies and releast the facts to setup their war crimes trials!

--------------


meanwhile, back in the real world of Obama playing political games. Obama himself is increasing the practice of Renditions against these same people. Which means real Torture is taking place, just in Egypt and other countries instead.

Well, Bush did make many "plots" more menacing than they really were-most of which didn't start yet or had no way of starting and was all talk. So yeah, I do question how real this "attack" was.

What should we do, let attacks happen just to satisfy your curiosity?

(04-21-2009 02:05 PM)GGniner Wrote:  this is supposedly how an Australian politician responded to this whole debate:

Mr T. B. Bechtel, a City Councillor from Newcastle,
in Australia was asked on a local
live radio talk show, just what he thought about the allegations of the
torture of suspected Islamic terrorists.

His reply prompted his ejection from the studio, but to thunderous applause
from the audience.

HIS STATEMENT:

'If hooking up a terrorist prisoner's nuts to a car's battery
cables will save just one Australian's life, then I have just three things to
say,'

'Red is positive,

Black is negative,

and make sure his nuts are wet.'


calls for a Fosters

I LOVE THIS GUY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Mr T. B. Bechtel, Sir, Would you like to come to America and Run for President of the United States for 2012 ????

Please say YES and all we have to do is make a Stop Over in Hawaii to get you a "Certificate of Live Birth" and you can be our Nut Frying POTUS !!!!!!!

I for one, would love to be a Key Member of your Presidential Campaign Mr T. B. Bechtel.

I do like your Style !!!! (which is so very unlike the apologist wimp we now must endure)

.

think back to pre-911

that attack was so over the top of what any of us can conceive as possible. Had the Govt. warned of such an attack, we would've said they were fearmongering for some nefarious purpose. That there was no way something that crazy coule be possible. First who would kill themselves for 72 virgins? second, yeah right they wouldn't hijack the plan with box cutters after months of taking flying classes......then it happened.

in the post-911 America, Idiotic conspiracy theories and hand wringing of those in power is the byproduct of National Security. The Sheep trying to slaughter the shepherd, for protecting them from Wolves.