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Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #1
Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
OK, we already have 30,000 US soldiers in Afghanistan. NATO has about 7,500 more, and now Obama wants to put in another 17,000.. and in the meantime the Pakis cut a deal with the Bad Guys for a sanctuary in the Swat Valley.

And deploying a Stryker Brigage to Afghanistan? Talk about an RPG "target rich environment" for these semi-armored monsters. MRAP's didn't work in Afghanistan and Strykers won't either. Someone send Obama a copy of "Charlie Wilson's War" and see what can happened to Russian BMP's back in the 80's.

The only thing that makes sense is that Obama is putting US forces over there to invade the Northwest Tribal Areas. Its not designed to secure Afghanistan.


WASHINGTON (AP) - President Barack Obama has approved adding about 17,000 U.S. troops for the flagging war in Afghanistan, administration, defense and congressional officials said Tuesday.

The Obama administration is expected to announce on Tuesday that it will send one additional Army brigade and an unknown number of Marines to Afghanistan this spring and summer. Officials spoke on condition of anonymity ahead of the official announcement.

About 8,000 Marines are expected to go in first, followed by about 9,000 Army troops.

The new forces represent the first installment on a larger influx of U.S. forces widely expected this year. Obama's decision would get several thousand troops in place in time for the increase in fighting that usually comes with warmer weather and ahead of national elections in August.

The additional forces partly answer a standing request from the U.S. commander in Afghanistan, Gen. David McKiernan, who has sought as many as 30,000 additional U.S. forces to counter the resurgence of the Taliban militants and protect Afghan civilians.

The United States has slightly more than 30,000 troops in Afghanistan now.

The new units are a Marine Expeditionary Brigade unit from Camp Lejeune, N.C., and an Army Stryker brigade from Fort Lewis in Washington state.

Ahead of his first foreign trip, Obama told a Canadian news organization that the United States will seek a more comprehensive, diplomatic approach to Afghanistan, where the U.S. has been engaged in war since 2001.

"I am absolutely convinced that you cannot solve the problem of Afghanistan, the Taliban, the spread of extremism in that region solely through military means," the President said in a White House interview with Toronto-based Canadian Broadcasting Corp.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20090217/D96DJ2V80.html

The government announced Monday that it would accept a system of Islamic law in the Swat valley and agreed to a truce, effectively conceding the area as a Taliban sanctuary and suspending a faltering effort by the army to crush the insurgents.

The concessions to the militants, who now control about 70 percent of the region just 100 miles from the capital, were criticized by Pakistani analysts as a capitulation by a government desperate to stop Taliban abuses and a military embarrassed at losing ground after more than a year of intermittent fighting. About 3,000 Taliban militants have kept 12,000 government troops at bay and terrorized the local population with floggings and the burning of schools.

The accord came less than a week before the first official visit to Washington of the Pakistani army chief, General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, to meet Obama administration officials and discuss how Pakistan could improve its tactics against what the American military is now calling an industrial-strength insurgency there of Al Qaeda and the Taliban militants.

The militants have also made deep gains in neighboring Afghanistan, where the United States is sending more troops.

Pakistani government officials insisted the truce with the Taliban and the switch to the Shariah, the Islamic legal code, were consistent with the Constitution and presented no threat to the integrity of the nation.

But the truce offered by the Taliban, and accepted by the authorities, rebuffed American demands for the Pakistani civilian and military authorities to stick with the fight against the militants, not make deals with them.

Under the terms of the accord, the chief minister of the province, Amir Haider Khan Hoti, said that Pakistani troops would now go on "reactive mode" and fight only in retaliation for an attack.

Announced by the government of the North-West Frontier Province after consultation with President Asif Ali Zardari, the pact echoed previous government accords with the militants across Pakistan's semi-autonomous tribal areas in North and South Waziristan.

Those regions have since become a mini-state for Qaeda and Taliban militants, who are now the focus of missile strikes by remotely piloted American aircraft. On Monday, what was thought to be a drone strike in Kurram, a separate area close to the Afghan border, killed 31 people, Pakistani intelligence officials said.

Analysts are now suggesting that the drone strikes may be pushing the Taliban, and even some Qaeda elements, out of the tribal belt and into Swat, making the valley more important to the Taliban.

Speaking in India on the last leg of his trip to Pakistan, Afghanistan and India, the Obama administration's special envoy to the region, Richard Holbrooke, did not address the truce directly but said the turmoil in Swat served as a reminder that the United States, Pakistan and India faced an "enemy which poses direct threats to our leadership, our capitals, and our people."

Pakistani legal experts and other analysts warned that the decision by the authorities would embolden militants in other parts of the country.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2009/02/17/asia/17pstan.php
02-17-2009 09:02 PM
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Post: #2
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
Bird cages have worked wonders for the Strykers in repelling RPGs.
02-17-2009 09:08 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #3
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
Sending Light Mech Infantry over there doesn't make sense to secure the "outlands" of Kabul unless its a total takeover of the poppyland of Helmand or Herat. Otherwise they are going through ambush friendly rugged areas.

And the guys up at Picatinny are replacing the bird cage on the Stryker with ERA.

http://www.pica.army.mil/picatinnypublic...-19-08.asp
(This post was last modified: 02-17-2009 10:01 PM by WoodlandsOwl.)
02-17-2009 09:51 PM
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Machiavelli Offline
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Post: #4
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
I'll say it again.... WMD is absolutely a wealth of info. The guy is a walking encyclopedia.
02-17-2009 10:27 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #5
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
Think you can win?....Go ask the Russians. Get the hell out of there before the body bags start flooding in. We taught them...and now they will use it to fill those bags. We NEVER learn from our mistakes.03-banghead
02-17-2009 11:12 PM
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Post: #6
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
WMD, I wouldn't classify the SBCT's as "Light Mech infantry". It may "technically" be light, but a Stryker packs some firepower as well as a tough armor. The vehicles in of themselves weigh almost 40 tons. An M1A2 only weighs about 68. Not to mention they have a Stryker variant that has, IIRC, a 105MM on it. I don't know if it's in use yet. It wasn't a few years ago, but I have seen one on the ranges at Yakima.

As for the Strykers, they're EXACTLY what's needed for Afghanistan. They're fast, mobile, quiet, can see in the dark and through smoke, and aren't called the "Ghost Riders" because it's a cool name. There's a ton of firepower that exit out of one in a very expedient time. It's probably the ONE thing I agreed with Shinseki on.
02-17-2009 11:15 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Think you can win?....Go ask the Russians. Get the hell out of there before the body bags start flooding in. We taught them...and now they will use it to fill those bags. We NEVER learn from our mistakes.03-banghead

Don't make the mistake of comparing our presence in Afghanistan with the Russians intent of conquering Afghanistan. It's apples and lugnuts.
02-17-2009 11:16 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #8
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 10:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'll say it again.... WMD is absolutely a wealth of info. The guy is a walking encyclopedia.

Thank you.. but as my first Ex-wife said... 'what good is it if he can't get on Jeopardy or Who Wants To Be a Millionaire and make any money with it?'
02-17-2009 11:17 PM
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Rebel
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Post: #9
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
Now, as for the mountains? Well, let's just say the 11B will never be obsolete, nor will the guys holding an 18 CMF.
02-17-2009 11:18 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #10
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:16 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 11:12 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  Think you can win?....Go ask the Russians. Get the hell out of there before the body bags start flooding in. We taught them...and now they will use it to fill those bags. We NEVER learn from our mistakes.03-banghead

Don't make the mistake of comparing our presence in Afghanistan with the Russians intent of conquering Afghanistan. It's apples and lugnuts.

I'm not...I'm just pointing out the reality of trying win a war in that hellhole. They are MASTERS of warfare on their homeland. We will NEVER begin to be as tough as these jokers are. They will never give up. The American public will not tolerate the slow trickle of body bags....and they know it.
02-17-2009 11:26 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #11
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:17 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 10:27 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I'll say it again.... WMD is absolutely a wealth of info. The guy is a walking encyclopedia.

Thank you.. but as my first Ex-wife said... 'what good is it if he can't get on Jeopardy or Who Wants To Be a Millionaire and make any money with it?'

Umm.....WMD?.....1st ex wife?....Are you having trouble learning from your mistakes?...04-cheers03-lmfao
02-17-2009 11:29 PM
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WoodlandsOwl Offline
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Post: #12
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:15 PM)Rebel Wrote:  WMD, I wouldn't classify the SBCT's as "Light Mech infantry". It may "technically" be light, but a Stryker packs some firepower as well as a tough armor. The vehicles in of themselves weigh almost 40 tons. An M1A2 only weighs about 68. Not to mention they have a Stryker variant that has, IIRC, a 105MM on it. I don't know if it's in use yet. It wasn't a few years ago, but I have seen one on the ranges at Yakima.

As for the Strykers, they're EXACTLY what's needed for Afghanistan. They're fast, mobile, quiet, can see in the dark and through smoke, and aren't called the "Ghost Riders" because it's a cool name. There's a ton of firepower that exit out of one in a very expedient time. It's probably the ONE thing I agreed with Shinseki on.

I agree the Stryker is one hell of a IFV, but the areas where the Taliban and AQ are holed up inside of Afghanistan are more of the terrain of Operation Anaconda. If CENTCOM wanted to put a real hurt on the Taliban, I'd suggest paying off the tribesmen farmers and then dropping napalm on every poppy field between Kandahar and Herat.

Take away their internal funding and you might get intelligence on where the high value targets are.

But if they are hiding over the border in Pakistan or the Tribal Areas you will need a Stryker to go in and get them, if you decide to stage an incursion into Pakistan....and a Stryker can fit in a C-130 that can hop across the border fairly easy.
02-17-2009 11:36 PM
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Post: #13
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I'm not...I'm just pointing out the reality of trying win a war in that hellhole.

Um, how about Iwo Jima? Tinian? Saipan? Shall I go on?


Quote:They are MASTERS of warfare on their homeland. We will NEVER begin to be as tough as these jokers are. They will never give up. The American public will not tolerate the slow trickle of body bags....and they know it.

Yeah, I guess that's why their asses were handed to'em in less than 3 months. A new government founded. Little girls being allowed in school. Afghani forces killing the Taliban.

Yeah, I guess that's because we're not as tough as they are.

Sell crazyass insane somewhere else. We're all stocked up.
02-17-2009 11:37 PM
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RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:36 PM)WMD Owl Wrote:  I agree the Stryker is one hell of a IFV, but the areas where the Taliban and AQ are holed up inside of Afghanistan are more of the terrain of Operation Anaconda. If CENTCOM wanted to put a real hurt on the Taliban, I'd suggest paying off the tribesmen farmers and then dropping napalm on every poppy field between Kandahar and Herat.

Sorry, you're quote just made it seem that heavy armor was required. That's the point I was disagreeing with.

Quote:But if they are hiding over the border in Pakistan or the Tribal Areas you will need a Stryker to go in and get them, if you decide to stage an incursion into Pakistan....and a Stryker can fit in a C-130 that can hop across the border fairly easy.

I wouldn't want to be in that C-130. Maybe a C-17, but it would still be limited to probably one Stryker per plane. Strykers are good in numbers. A single Stryker, like a single Abrams, doesn't do much good. Both can deliver a helluva lot of firepower, but like aviation, you still need a wing man....or several. Unlike Abrams and Bradleys, who can be deadlined by a broken track, a Stryker runs on runflats with a CTIS system. They can, however, be taken out. 4-2 had one that ran over a 105MM IED that threw it about 4' in the air. It rolled to a stop. Aside from the deadlined Stryker, the only casualty was a soldier with a broken arm. I agree about the mountainous terrain, but not all of Afghanistan is mountainous.
02-17-2009 11:42 PM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:37 PM)Rebel Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 11:26 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I'm not...I'm just pointing out the reality of trying win a war in that hellhole.

Um, how about Iwo Jima? Tinian? Saipan? Shall I go on?


Quote:They are MASTERS of warfare on their homeland. We will NEVER begin to be as tough as these jokers are. They will never give up. The American public will not tolerate the slow trickle of body bags....and they know it.

Yeah, I guess that's why their asses were handed to'em in less than 3 months. A new government founded. Little girls being allowed in school. Afghani forces killing the Taliban.

Yeah, I guess that's because we're not as tough as they are.

Sell crazyass insane somewhere else. We're all stocked up.

I hope you are correct. I only want our troops home.

BTW...Your really dont want to start a war with me Reb. Im on your side. I support the men and women in the military just as strongly as you. You will NEVER hear me do anything to dishonor them. I only want them HOME and safe.
02-17-2009 11:53 PM
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RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-17-2009 11:53 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  BTW...Your really dont want to start a war with me Reb. Im on your side. I support the men and women in the military just as strongly as you. You will NEVER hear me do anything to dishonor them. I only want them HOME and safe.

...and they don't want to send their kids to finish some **** they should have finished 20 years previously.
02-18-2009 12:16 AM
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Fo Shizzle Offline
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Post: #17
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-18-2009 12:16 AM)Rebel Wrote:  
(02-17-2009 11:53 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  BTW...Your really dont want to start a war with me Reb. Im on your side. I support the men and women in the military just as strongly as you. You will NEVER hear me do anything to dishonor them. I only want them HOME and safe.

...and they don't want to send their kids to finish some **** they should have finished 20 years previously.

I'm sure that is so..but..Just how many more mistakes from the policy makers are to be allowed before we start understanding that we usually cause the problems that we end up having to fix. It's a never ending circle of miscues,,,usually involving being drawn into something that we should have just stayed out of in the first place.

I admire anyone that volunteers to be in the armed services. I just feel that those in control of them are mighty flippant about putting them in harms way and lack understanding the consequences of doing so.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2009 09:16 AM by Fo Shizzle.)
02-18-2009 09:16 AM
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Owl 69/70/75 Offline
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Post: #18
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
The sooner we quit trying to micromanage the world, the sooner we'll see fewer Afghanistans and 9/11's. Of course we probably will need to get off our imported oil fix before we can quit micromanaging at least that part of the world.
02-18-2009 09:25 AM
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SumOfAllFears Offline
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Post: #19
RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
We just need to let the military do what we trained them to do. Period. When you constrain our military, you strengthen our enemies. When you give our military a mission, they don't know anything but success. It's really quite simple.
(This post was last modified: 02-18-2009 12:31 PM by SumOfAllFears.)
02-18-2009 12:30 PM
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RE: Obama gives up on Afghanistan.. apparently wants to invade Pakistan.
(02-18-2009 12:30 PM)SumOfAllFears Wrote:  We just need to let the military do what we trained them to do. Period. When you constrain our military, you strengthen our enemies. When you give our military a mission, they don't know anything but success. It's really quite simple.

OK...Bring them home and put them to defending.04-cheers
02-18-2009 05:42 PM
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