smn1256 Wrote:Booze, cigarettes and guns are legal and organized crime makes bank stealing and reselling them. And the last time I looked the mafia had a reputation for killing people - including people who aren't alcoholics.

Legalize any drug you want and the bad guys will try to steal it (or make it on their own) and sell it for less - was that not covered in your history book?

Do you *really* want to compare alcohol theft and bootlegging today vs the era of Prohibition?

You jagoff liberals can never see things in Black and White. You see only gray because when a person sees things in Black and white, you gotta make a decision. A Choice with responsibility. , It's either one way or the other. period. Beading heart liberals who can never make a black and white decision make me want to heave. Drugs are illegal, a scourge on mankind. Liberals want to turn a blinds eye to the devastation drugs do to innocent families, and focus on the supposed INJUSTICE to the CRIMINALS that break drug laws. F that you F_ucking appeasers. Take a stand to Keep America's Children Drug Free. You are sacrificing the children for your unproven politically correct drug experiment. WTF is the matter with you libs. You all are probably stoned to the BEJESUS BELT now.

SumOfAllFears Wrote:You jagoff liberals can never see things in Black and White. You see only gray because when a person sees things in Black and white, you gotta make a decision. A Choice with responsibility. , It's either one way or the other. period. Beading heart liberals who can never make a black and white decision make me want to heave. Drugs are illegal, a scourge on mankind. Liberals want to turn a blinds eye to the devastation drugs do to innocent families, and focus on the supposed INJUSTICE to the CRIMINALS that break drug laws. F that you F_ucking appeasers. Take a stand to Keep America's Children Drug Free. You are sacrificing the children for your unproven politically correct drug experiment. WTF is the matter with you libs. You all are probably stoned to the BEJESUS BELT now.

You managed to sum up the conservative position in one post. Tell me...Just how is that position working out?

BTW I am a proud liberal...classically speaking. The difference between my position and yours is simple...The conservative position favors putting peaceful people in cages to solve problems instead of actually using ideas to solve problems....and just fyi....I have not used so-called illegal drugs in over 25 years.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

SumOfAllFears Wrote:You jagoff liberals can never see things in Black and White. You see only gray because when a person sees things in Black and white, you gotta make a decision. A Choice with responsibility. , It's either one way or the other. period. Beading heart liberals who can never make a black and white decision make me want to heave. Drugs are illegal, a scourge on mankind. Liberals want to turn a blinds eye to the devastation drugs do to innocent families, and focus on the supposed INJUSTICE to the CRIMINALS that break drug laws. F that you F_ucking appeasers. Take a stand to Keep America's Children Drug Free. You are sacrificing the children for your unproven politically correct drug experiment. WTF is the matter with you libs. You all are probably stoned to the BEJESUS BELT now.

You managed to sum up the conservative position in one post. Tell me...Just how is that position working out?

BTW I am a proud liberal...classically speaking. The difference between my position and yours is simple...The conservative position favors putting peaceful people in cages to solve problems instead of actually using ideas to solve problems....and just fyi....I have not used so-called illegal drugs in over 25 years.

Your 'peaceful people" are selling drugs to children. Society is better off when they are in prison.

SumOfAllFears Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:

SumOfAllFears Wrote:You jagoff liberals can never see things in Black and White. You see only gray because when a person sees things in Black and white, you gotta make a decision. A Choice with responsibility. , It's either one way or the other. period. Beading heart liberals who can never make a black and white decision make me want to heave. Drugs are illegal, a scourge on mankind. Liberals want to turn a blinds eye to the devastation drugs do to innocent families, and focus on the supposed INJUSTICE to the CRIMINALS that break drug laws. F that you F_ucking appeasers. Take a stand to Keep America's Children Drug Free. You are sacrificing the children for your unproven politically correct drug experiment. WTF is the matter with you libs. You all are probably stoned to the BEJESUS BELT now.

You managed to sum up the conservative position in one post. Tell me...Just how is that position working out?

BTW I am a proud liberal...classically speaking. The difference between my position and yours is simple...The conservative position favors putting peaceful people in cages to solve problems instead of actually using ideas to solve problems....and just fyi....I have not used so-called illegal drugs in over 25 years.

Your 'peaceful people" are selling drugs to children. Society is better off when they are in prison.

This is a typical law and order comment. Stop trying to boil down debate by using extreme examples. You know damn well that is a very rare occurrence. Children are not running around hunting drug dealers and dealer sare not hunting children.

Someone please offer evidence that the drug war has been successful in its goals. I'm more than happy to entertain evidence that the US is winning this so-called war. Thus far in this debate, I have not heard one sentence offering any new ideas or innovation. It seems the L&O types either don't have any ideas or are just happy to continue with the status quo.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Children are not running around hunting drug dealers and dealer sare not hunting children.

That sounds a little naive. Dealers are businessmen/women. Teens are impressionable. You don't think that dealers will jump at any chance to possibly make customers for life?

.

YEP ....

One of "Those Peaceful People" tried his Damm Level Best to Run Over, with a Car, my Wife and Daughter just a few days ago.

Hey, he is getting off Probation at the End of the Month and he is going to need some place to live .....

What is Your Address Fo ????

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BlazerFan11 Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Children are not running around hunting drug dealers and dealer sare not hunting children.

That sounds a little naive. Dealers are businessmen/women. Teens are impressionable. You don't think that dealers will jump at any chance to possibly make customers for life?

Well Ill be damned...suddenly the topic changed from "children" to "teens". My comment was not about teen drug use. Its amazing how people forget that words actually have meanings...and I stand by MY assertion about children and drugs.

Certainly...Teenagers are a target for the black market and teenagers seek mind altering substances....Not to be annoying but my point about legalization and control of the drugs would be to reduce that black market. What part of this is so hard to understand? Again..I offer a solution...The current policy offers the status quo that leaves the black market fully open to anyone...including teens.

Im still waiting for someone to prove that the "drug war" has been effective in curbing drug use and its associated problems.

Tripster Wrote:.

YEP ....

One of "Those Peaceful People" tried his Damm Level Best to Run Over, with a Car, my Wife and Daughter just a few days ago.

Hey, he is getting off Probation at the End of the Month and he is going to need some place to live .....

What is Your Address Fo ????

.

Which drug was he on?...Beer,wine or Jack Daniels?

I have no problem with punishing people that harm others...I have made that perfectly clear...over and over. I oppose putting someone in a cage that has not harmed another person. I get the impression that you get a thrill out of seeing people punished just "because its the LAW". Just because someone writes down words on paper and says I must obey those words...does not make their dictates morally correct.
I guess you would like to see Jim Crow laws come back.

My bad, I could have sworn 13-17 year olds were "children," not adults. Of course four year olds aren't out looking for drug dealers. I thought this argument would involve some common sense.

Drug-related murders aren't just over gang territory. Many are where dealers kill addicts who owe them money (and, no, don't think that if legal, dealers would just take them to court and wait for the ridiculously long judicial process) or where addicts do whatever necessary to get a fix.

There will always be a black market for drugs, legal or illegal. You really think that dealers will be compliant with tax laws?

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FO !!!!

You just killed your own Argument Man.

Who on Earth do you think are going to be the Major Benefactors of a Legalized Stoned and Drug-Headed Society.

All of Our Children and I can't stand that thought.

Even if they don't use Drugs and are smart enough to not be like Mommy & Daddy, they Still Get Eviscerated by Proxy.

Probably 50% of Drug Abuse is now Prescription Misuse and Stems from Self Medicating .... this is NO Worse than your Parents going out on the Streets and Getting the Stuff ...

A Drug Addict is a Drug Addict is a Drug Addict and it matters not from where they Purchased the Drugs .... it still kills Families, it Still Kills People, and that is not fair to the People Who will Inherit Our Mess.

You guys must have a bastion of really Good Kids who you Believe are not Experimenting or Using Hard and Hopefully they are Really Good and not just Sly - - but I live in a Place where it is Dog-Eat-Dog and you can not play here or you will get Hurt Bad or Killed and I don't even want to see what happens when every one and their Brother can Self Medicate with Oxy, Zanax, and any other Popular Street Drug.

Drug use here is thru the Roof and it is only going up - - and these Kids are not idiots either ... they fall into this horrid Hellish Addiction and before they know it, it is Too Late for Them or they have to make a Really Mature Adult Decision too Stop on Their Own and man, I don't want too ask a 21 Year Old that has been on Drugs Since 10 or 12, to Stop, be sick from Withdrawal Pain that is Excruciating, and have them say "NO".

I mean this will be "Just Say No" in Reverse.

When I was in the Military, certain Beer was not allowed East of the Mississippi River - - yeah OK ... when I came home, pass thru Texas and grab a couple hundred cases and go "a bootlegging".

I just know what I have seen and it is not pretty at all ... I don't want that for the Future of My Children and my 3 New Grandchildren ... NO WAY.

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BlazerFan11 Wrote:My bad, I could have sworn 13-17 year olds were "children," not adults. Of course four year olds aren't out looking for drug dealers. I thought this argument would involve some common sense.

Drug-related murders aren't just over gang territory. Many are where dealers kill addicts who owe them money (and, no, don't think that if legal, dealers would just take them to court and wait for the ridiculously long judicial process) or where addicts do whatever necessary to get a fix.

There will always be a black market for drugs, legal or illegal. You really think that dealers will be compliant with tax laws?

Sorry... I don't consider 13-17 year olds as children..at least I did not consider my daughter a child at that age.

Keep in mind that the high cost of street drugs is because of the risk involved in getting the substance to market. Users would see drastic reduction in price point with competition in the free market. With cheaper and more quality controlled products...Why would someone continue to buy these products on the black market? It makes no logical sense. I understand that a small portion of this trade will try to continue...but...it would be reduced as legalization of alcohol reduced the bootlegger black market. Legalization and control is a market solution to the problem.

I'm still waiting on someone to prove that what we are currently doing has been effective....I'm still waiting to hear a better solution than decriminalization.

.

Fo ... I totally agree with you 1 Million Percent that Our System has Failed as long ago as the 60's when Any College Chemistry Drop-Out, could cook up a batch of LSD and scores of Other Psychotropic Drugs and we had not Prepared for this Happening.

There were basically No Hard Laws on the books for Non-Scheduled Basement Manufactured Drugs.

As Forward Thinking as California was in the 60's compared to most sleepy areas, they were just Stopped In Their Tracks by the Cooked Up Drug Market.

We have Failed, Yes ..... but to say now let us Experiment at 180 Degrees on our Children .... no.

Children ALWAYS get what rolls down hill and Sometimes, the Child Just may be Smarter than the Parent but they are Caught in the Cycle and become a Victim - -

Just because you have a Mating Session and Produce Offspring, does not mean you are Mature Enough to Raise Them - - just Look At Pro Ball Players - - Most Never Grow Up -- they Never Have Too - - they play a game for a living and are Applauded like Heroes and Have Done nothing but Bounce a Ball up and down a Court for a couple of hours.

What 10 Year Old can tell who Colin Powell was, or Audie Murphy, or Winston Churchill even ??? But they can sit and name off all the players from their Top 10 List.

That is Our Legacy to them - - too hold a Ball Player in higher esteem than the Office of President or a True War Hero.

And knowing we have done this to them, man there is just no way I can justify laying down a Legacy Fabric Laced with Pure Poison.

.

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Users would see drastic reduction in price point with competition in the free market.

...which would lead to more addicts. If people will pay the current inflated rate and risk going to prison, what makes you think that they wouldn't do it if it's cheap and legal?

Fo Shizzle Wrote:With cheaper and more quality controlled products...Why would someone continue to buy these products on the black market?

Who exactly is going to "control" the drugs? The government? Yeah, that won't be corrupt. If you have a total free market, for-profit system, and use goes down, like you are claiming, the dealers are not going to deal well with reduced profits, and will do whatever they have to to keep as much money as possible.

FO_AHOLE,
No proof would be good enough for you. I have all the proof I need, My 4 CHILDREN, get it FO_AHOLE, ages 24 to 39, all have grown up illegal drug free. And FO_AHOLE, I want my 5 soon to be 7 Grand ..... CHILDREN afford the same option. So if your going to do drugs or sell drugs, I know of an ARMY of people that will lock up that sorry ass and let them rot in prison. (You know that murdering Bubba needs lots of non-violent virgin liberal ass to drop a huge load into. Bubba friends want their salad tossed as well.) If you think it's worth the risk FO_AHOLE, toss the dice.

Tripster Wrote:.

Fo ... I totally agree with you 1 Million Percent that Our System has Failed as long ago as the 60's when Any College Chemistry Drop-Out, could cook up a batch of LSD and scores of Other Psychotropic Drugs and we had not Prepared for this Happening.

There were basically No Hard Laws on the books for Non-Scheduled Basement Manufactured Drugs.

As Forward Thinking as California was in the 60's compared to most sleepy areas, they were just Stopped In Their Tracks by the Cooked Up Drug Market.

We have Failed, Yes ..... but to say now let us Experiment at 180 Degrees on our Children .... no.

Children ALWAYS get what rolls down hill and Sometimes, the Child Just may be Smarter than the Parent but they are Caught in the Cycle and become a Victim - -

Just because you have a Mating Session and Produce Offspring, does not mean you are Mature Enough to Raise Them - - just Look At Pro Ball Players - - Most Never Grow Up -- they Never Have Too - - they play a game for a living and are Applauded like Heroes and Have Done nothing but Bounce a Ball up and down a Court for a couple of hours.

What 10 Year Old can tell who Colin Powell was, or Audie Murphy, or Winston Churchill even ??? But they can sit and name off all the players from their Top 10 List.

That is Our Legacy to them - - too hold a Ball Player in higher esteem than the Office of President or a True War Hero.

And knowing we have done this to them, man there is just no way I can justify laying down a Legacy Fabric Laced with Pure Poison.

.

So the status quo of failure is fine with you then...Its not with me.
I hope none of your family ends up in a cage because they decide to live their life as "they" see fit. Again... putting people in cages that have caused no harm to anyone is pure immoral.

BlazerFan11 Wrote:

Fo Shizzle Wrote:Users would see drastic reduction in price point with competition in the free market.

...which would lead to more addicts. If people will pay the current inflated rate and risk going to prison, what makes you think that they wouldn't do it if it's cheap and legal?

Fo Shizzle Wrote:With cheaper and more quality controlled products...Why would someone continue to buy these products on the black market?

Who exactly is going to "control" the drugs? The government? Yeah, that won't be corrupt. If you have a total free market, for-profit system, and use goes down, like you are claiming, the dealers are not going to deal well with reduced profits, and will do whatever they have to to keep as much money as possible.

In countries that have decriminalized drugs in Europe...drug usage did not increase within the population.

No one will ever stop people from wanting to use substances to alter their sense of reality...lower costs would reduce the crimes that addicts commit to be able to afford the current inflated black market price and add safety to drug use through purity and quality control processes. In addition users would have better access to dosage information. This would decrease the incidence of overdoses.

Anyone that has an idea that drugs will be eliminated is delusional...What I advocate would get them off the street and into a controlled environment.

I don't claim that drug use would decrease...and I really don't care.
I know that drug use will never drastically decrease, no matter what you do. The sheer cost to the taxpayer to fund this insane failed drug war is reason enough to try something else. We all know that the cost of drug treatment is far less expensive than incarceration. Putting people in cages that have not harmed anyone and making me pay for it is immoral.

As for controlling drugs....well...We have a system that controls the sale of nicotine and alcohol and "licensed drug dealers" that dole out dangerous drugs by the tons. This should not be a huge problem.

Tripster Wrote:.

Fo ... I totally agree with you 1 Million Percent that Our System has Failed as long ago as the 60's when Any College Chemistry Drop-Out, could cook up a batch of LSD and scores of Other Psychotropic Drugs and we had not Prepared for this Happening.

There were basically No Hard Laws on the books for Non-Scheduled Basement Manufactured Drugs.

As Forward Thinking as California was in the 60's compared to most sleepy areas, they were just Stopped In Their Tracks by the Cooked Up Drug Market.

We have Failed, Yes ..... but to say now let us Experiment at 180 Degrees on our Children .... no.

Children ALWAYS get what rolls down hill and Sometimes, the Child Just may be Smarter than the Parent but they are Caught in the Cycle and become a Victim - -

Just because you have a Mating Session and Produce Offspring, does not mean you are Mature Enough to Raise Them - - just Look At Pro Ball Players - - Most Never Grow Up -- they Never Have Too - - they play a game for a living and are Applauded like Heroes and Have Done nothing but Bounce a Ball up and down a Court for a couple of hours.

What 10 Year Old can tell who Colin Powell was, or Audie Murphy, or Winston Churchill even ??? But they can sit and name off all the players from their Top 10 List.

That is Our Legacy to them - - too hold a Ball Player in higher esteem than the Office of President or a True War Hero.

And knowing we have done this to them, man there is just no way I can justify laying down a Legacy Fabric Laced with Pure Poison.

.

If we want to protect the "children"...Does it not make sense to reduce the ease of access to the black market drug trade?
Any motivated teenager can get their hands on drugs within minutes on the street. Would it be as easy if these drugs were controlled and taken off the streets?....I'm sorry...to continue the current attack on this problem is putting our "children" in danger not protecting them.

SumOfAllFears Wrote:FO_AHOLE,
No proof would be good enough for you. I have all the proof I need, My 4 CHILDREN, get it FO_AHOLE, ages 24 to 39, all have grown up illegal drug free. And FO_AHOLE, I want my 5 soon to be 7 Grand ..... CHILDREN afford the same option. So if your going to do drugs or sell drugs, I know of an ARMY of people that will lock up that sorry ass and let them rot in prison. (You know that murdering Bubba needs lots of non-violent virgin liberal ass to drop a huge load into. Bubba friends want their salad tossed as well.) If you think it's worth the risk FO_AHOLE, toss the dice.

My friend...The only thing that your "children" have proven is that you raised them to be drug free(as far as you know)....not that the war on drugs has been effective....I commend you teaching them the dangers of drugs. I also have raised a daughter to be drug free(as far as I know)...it also had nothing to do with the war on drugs.

I'm sorry you chose to resort to personal insults instead of using rational discussion. I afforded you that courtesy and have not attack you personally in ANY post. Thanks for the discussion....Have a nice life.