National sales tax is the only one I really like. You get charged a certain percentage of the price of good you buy so it taxes those who consume the most. It would be amazing to never have to fill out a tax form ever again and to never deal with the IRS. I'd be in favor of a basic necessities exemption too. So no tax on food, water, shelter, and gas. Businesses that sell good would be the only who need accountants and then it would be easy to figure out.

That makes way too much sense to ever be considered by government.

Artifice Wrote:

Rebel Wrote:Flat Tax is a piece of trash. This is like Deja Vu. I just posted something about the differences:

http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=32...pid3635709

The "fair" tax is a regressive piece of trash. Just what we need, unloading even more of the tax burden from the upper class onto the middle class, with absolutely no spending controls.

What a fraud.

I can tell you have not read about it. That is totally false. The prebate to every household makes it a 0 tax for the poor. That certainly can't be regressive. Go tell a lower class worker that he will be getting ALL his check this week..and see what he thinks about that.

Artifice Wrote:I do not care to divulge what I make, but suffice to say, I am in the top 15% of US household income. As I said, I am a professional, and I deal with tax planning and reporting as part of my job, so this is based on common sense and experience and not ideology.

Tax planner, huh? Seems like you're more divested into the continuation of this piece of **** better known as the US Tax Code.

Quote:And, assuming your 23% was accurate, and wasn't a bogus interpretation of a 30% rate, even 23% would be a huge effective tax rate increase. For the last 3 years, these are my effective tax rates:

2005 8.7%
2006 9.2%
2007 11.8%

The 23% IS accurate. It's in the bill. Please tell me that you, as a tax planner, aren't arguing against something of which you know nothing about. BTW, you people who are against the Fair Tax, and are championing an even more complicated tax code, I guess for job security reasons while the rest of us are f'ed, apparently don't know how the Fair Tax works. You keep throwing out this 30% number (23% + @7% state), but you fail to understand that the 23% you're going to pay, you ALREADY pay now in the form of an embedded tax. Everything you purchase has been purchased by a company that had to pay about 21-22% in taxes. Those taxes would IMMEDIATELY come out. So, you wouldn't be paying 1.23 after the Fair Tax when you were paying 1.00 before. You'll be paying about 1.00 because the item will then cost about .77 cents. Add the Fair Tax, and it's back up to 1.00.

Quote:ETI defined as federal tax payable/gross income. Even if I add in FICA, it's still an increase.

You don't pay FICA? I'd like to know how you're getting away with paying so little doing what you do. Something sounds fishy. I know what "I" pay and it's a helluva lot more than 23%. BTW, and again, ALL taxes at the federal level would be replaced by the Fair Tax, income, FICA, capital gains, etc., etc., etc.

Quote:The so called fair tax proposal is championed by those that would benefit the most from it - very high wage earners and the wealthy. Basically, the top 6% of America. The fairtax takes a huge portion of their historical burden and passes it downstream, not to the poor, but to the already heavily burdened middle class.

...and I'll reiterate. It seems more of a case of you keeping the system as f'ed up as it is so you can continue to draw a salary. Who's the one with the most to gain? Sounds to me like you are. ....and you just made a case for it.

National sales tax is the only one I really like. You get charged a certain percentage of the price of good you buy so it taxes those who consume the most. It would be amazing to never have to fill out a tax form ever again and to never deal with the IRS. I'd be in favor of a basic necessities exemption too. So no tax on food, water, shelter, and gas. Businesses that sell good would be the only who need accountants and then it would be easy to figure out.


I like this too. I dread every April. I would tax gas tax though. You put an additional surcharge on petrol til we pay off the debt. And it goes to pay off the debt only and we stop the raiding S.S. too. Surcharge the pump.

Jugnaut Wrote:National sales tax is the only one I really like. You get charged a certain percentage of the price of good you buy so it taxes those who consume the most. It would be amazing to never have to fill out a tax form ever again and to never deal with the IRS. I'd be in favor of a basic necessities exemption too. So no tax on food, water, shelter, and gas. Businesses that sell good would be the only who need accountants and then it would be easy to figure out.

Do you know how many products won't be sold because of this? People will stop buying on impulse.

Here in CA the amount of taxes collected are decreasing because there is less spending due to the financial crisis and there's been talk about increasing taxes to make up for it. The same thing would happen to the federal govt if people started pinching pennies.

Do you never want to pay taxes again? Then get England to pay back its war debt with interest.

Artifice Wrote:I do not care to divulge what I make, but suffice to say, I am in the top 15% of US household income. As I said, I am a professional, and I deal with tax planning and reporting as part of my job, so this is based on common sense and experience and not ideology.
And, assuming your 23% was accurate, and wasn't a bogus interpretation of a 30% rate, even 23% would be a huge effective tax rate increase. For the last 3 years, these are my effective tax rates:
2005 8.7%
2006 9.2%
2007 11.8%
ETI defined as federal tax payable/gross income. Even if I add in FICA, it's still an increase.
The so called fair tax proposal is championed by those that would benefit the most from it - very high wage earners and the wealthy. Basically, the top 6% of America. The fairtax takes a huge portion of their historical burden and passes it downstream, not to the poor, but to the already heavily burdened middle class.

Let's recap a bit.

First, you tell us that you are in the top 15% of US household income.
Then, you tell us that you will see a significant increase in your personal taxes.
Finally, you tell us that high wage earners and the wealthy are the ones who will benefit from Fair Tax.

Can all three of those statements be true? At the same time?

Edit: I think you provide the clues in your post. The rates you show as your actual rates are way low for someone at your claimed income level. But you say you do tax planning. It would appear that you have managed to set up some effective tax shelters to hide most of your income from the IRS. Fair tax upsets your apple cart because you can't duck it with shelters. Poor baby. You really ARE the person that we should be designing our tax laws to hit. And guess what, Fair Tax does that

Machiavelli Wrote:National sales tax is the only one I really like. You get charged a certain percentage of the price of good you buy so it taxes those who consume the most. It would be amazing to never have to fill out a tax form ever again and to never deal with the IRS. I'd be in favor of a basic necessities exemption too. So no tax on food, water, shelter, and gas. Businesses that sell good would be the only who need accountants and then it would be easy to figure out.

Mach, you JUST described the Fair Tax.

smn1256 Wrote:Do you know how many products won't be sold because of this? People will stop buying on impulse.

Here in CA the amount of taxes collected are decreasing because there is less spending due to the financial crisis and there's been talk about increasing taxes to make up for it. The same thing would happen to the federal govt if people started pinching pennies.

Do you never want to pay taxes again? Then get England to pay back its war debt with interest.

Do you ever read my posts? The cost of the product will essentially be the SAME, maybe about a percent or 2 higher, and you get to keep your ENTIRE paycheck, well, with the exception of what you pay the state. Tell ya what, PM me your address and I'll pay for and ship to you, the Fair Tax book and Fair Tax, Answering the Critics to you free of charge. You won't be the first person I've done this for. However, you will be the first conservative.

FAIR TAX PEOPLE! It will be the greatest power shift from government to the people in history.