This would appeal to me. On Huffington Post they are saying this will be McCain's October Surprise. I like it. Tell me he's going to legalize Internet Poker again and he would have my vote. I would be a one issue voter again. Still pissed of at Chuck Kyle for banning internet poker in that port bill. MF'ers.
His campaign has gone in the shitter once people familiarized themselves with Palin. Why didn't he go with his instincts and pick Lieberman. Ultra conservative wingbats like her are falling out with the American populace. He should of went with Lieberman.
It might be Jon Kyl I don't know I remember he was a holy roller from out west. Holier than thou type.
Chuck Kyle is a football coach from Cleveland.... now I'm pretty sure it's Jon Kyl. I could google it I know.
Machiavelli Wrote:His campaign has gone in the shitter once people familiarized themselves with Palin. Why didn't he go with his instincts and pick Lieberman. Ultra conservative wingbats like her are falling out with the American populace. He should of went with Lieberman.
Keep thinking that Dem. If he'd have picked Lieberman the polls would have been about 48% to 34% in Obama's favor. Don't pretend to know what the hell you're talking about in the conservative circle.
Elections are decided by the moderates and independents. They run faster from Palin than a wolf from a helicopter. Keep the baracuda attacking it's done wonders for Obama's favorables and McCain unfavorables. She pppeals to the nutjobs.... nobody else. You excited the people who would of voted for McCain anyways and chased off moderates. Obama couldn't of picked a better running mate for McCain!
I prefer NO tax...but...I support the FairTax over others like the VAT and flat tax.
I think the FairTax allows more flexibility in how you allow your wages to be stolen from you. You could evade the theft more easily with the Fair Tax since withholding would end.
I am uncomfortable with the "prebate" portion of the FT...I don't like the idea of having to cash a check that is made up of other peoples stolen wages.
Back to the topic:
Fair Tax : Sales Tax????
Flat Tax_ Income taxes???
VAT- I researched it. You only tax the value of the object in transition.
To me. I think we need to over haul the entire system.
Machiavelli Wrote:Elections are decided by the moderates and independents. They run faster from Palin than a wolf from a helicopter. Keep the baracuda attacking it's done wonders for Obama's favorables and McCain unfavorables. She pppeals to the nutjobs.... nobody else. You excited the people who would of voted for McCain anyways and chased off moderates. Obama couldn't of picked a better running mate for McCain!
i don't understand why people think she's such a nutjob. I watched her speak at my school yesterday and i was impressed. She's a pretty cool politician. She didn't seem very crazy to me.
flyingswoosh Wrote:Machiavelli Wrote:Elections are decided by the moderates and independents. They run faster from Palin than a wolf from a helicopter. Keep the baracuda attacking it's done wonders for Obama's favorables and McCain unfavorables. She pppeals to the nutjobs.... nobody else. You excited the people who would of voted for McCain anyways and chased off moderates. Obama couldn't of picked a better running mate for McCain!
i don't understand why people think she's such a nutjob. I watched her speak at my school yesterday and i was impressed. She's a pretty cool politician. She didn't seem very crazy to me.
Because they're scared shitless of her.
Quote:i don't understand why people think she's such a nutjob. I watched her speak at my school yesterday and i was impressed. She's a pretty cool politician. She didn't seem very crazy to me.
Anyone who makes it to that level will be very good at reading a prepared speech. Politicians (for the most part) never seem 'crazy' when they are running for office.
Rebel Wrote:flyingswoosh Wrote:Machiavelli Wrote:Elections are decided by the moderates and independents. They run faster from Palin than a wolf from a helicopter. Keep the baracuda attacking it's done wonders for Obama's favorables and McCain unfavorables. She pppeals to the nutjobs.... nobody else. You excited the people who would of voted for McCain anyways and chased off moderates. Obama couldn't of picked a better running mate for McCain!
i don't understand why people think she's such a nutjob. I watched her speak at my school yesterday and i was impressed. She's a pretty cool politician. She didn't seem very crazy to me.
Because they're scared shitless of her.
Palin and Joe the Plumber have brought out the ugly nature of the Left. They are beyond scared, and were already deranged so what that makes them I don't know.
P.D.S. = Palin Derangement Syndrome
She's very smart on the economy and paticularly Energy Independence, watch some of her interviews on that sometime. The Environmentalist Whackos and the morons that think Bears have more Rights than human babies are Terrified. Which means she's dead over the target of exactly what is wrong with America.
Europe has 50 years of experimenting with the problems that high tax rates bring about. Do what they're starting to do, led by the former communist countries and Ireland:
1. Flat tax on salary and wage income, collected like social security, with employer paying half
2. Flat tax on business profits (all forms--corporation, partnership, LLC, etc.)
3. Consumption tax on all goods and services
If the rates of all three are coordinated, and if there is a refund of tax up to poverty levels of income to avoid the negative impact on the poor, it takes a 15% rate across the board to balance the current budget. The refund can be set at a level so you basically end up with nobody in the country more than a minimum-wage job away from being above the poverty line.
If you tax capital gains, dividends, and interest at the 15% level as well, only people with those income sources wll have to file any kind of individual tax return. And you could probably do that with some kind of de minimis threshhold to sharply reduce the number of people who had to deal with the IRS or April 15 or Form 1040.
Rebel Wrote:Flat Tax is a piece of trash. This is like Deja Vu. I just posted something about the differences:
http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=32...pid3635709
The "fair" tax is a regressive piece of trash. Just what we need, unloading even more of the tax burden from the upper class onto the middle class, with absolutely no spending controls.
What a fraud.
Artifice Wrote:The "fair" tax is a regressive piece of trash. Just what we need, unloading even more of the tax burden from the upper class onto the middle class, with absolutely no spending controls.
What a fraud.
How in the HELL is it regressive? The same people pay the same percentage and are compensated up to the poverty level. It's not the government's JOB to implement "fairness" because "fairness", in what you're meaning, DOESN'T EXIST because someone is ALWAYS going to get screwed. You know what's fair? The guy at the bottom has/had the SAME opportunities to make it as the guy at the top. If he didn't, he should have gotten off his lazy ass and done something about it.
Grow the hell up. The government isn't your nanny.
Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:Europe has 50 years of experimenting with the problems that high tax rates bring about. Do what they're starting to do, led by the former communist countries and Ireland:
1. Flat tax on salary and wage income, collected like social security, with employer paying half
2. Flat tax on business profits (all forms--corporation, partnership, LLC, etc.)
3. Consumption tax on all goods and services
If the rates of all three are coordinated, and if there is a refund of tax up to poverty levels of income to avoid the negative impact on the poor, it takes a 15% rate across the board to balance the current budget. The refund can be set at a level so you basically end up with nobody in the country more than a minimum-wage job away from being above the poverty line.
If you tax capital gains, dividends, and interest at the 15% level as well, only people with those income sources wll have to file any kind of individual tax return. And you could probably do that with some kind of de minimis threshhold to sharply reduce the number of people who had to deal with the IRS or April 15 or Form 1040.
Some major problems with common sense that produces Economic Growth and Prosperity. First, the Authoritarians have a hard time gainging power this way and it undercuts the Politics of Envy(their main tool to gain power in a democratic system). "Taxing the rich" is a marketing tool for power. When they know full well the really rich, have effective tax rates in the 10% range usually thinks to loopholes and Tax Exempt Bonds. Where as the Tax Rates are actually taxing those who are trying to come from nothing, and become "Rich".
Notice that Socialist countries, there is little if any upward Mobility financially. you get stuck in your class.......guys like Joe the Plumber get this.
Secondly, if you really beleive in junk science like Global Warming the last thing you want is Economic Growth, i.e. Consumption. And if you truly beleive we are Destroying the Earth, one can rationalize doing next to anything to 'save it'. Last time we had 'science' that become politicized(Eugenics) it had a pretty ugly outcome, lots of things were rationalized from it.
Rebel Wrote:Artifice Wrote:The "fair" tax is a regressive piece of trash. Just what we need, unloading even more of the tax burden from the upper class onto the middle class, with absolutely no spending controls.
What a fraud.
How in the HELL is it regressive? The same people pay the same percentage and are compensated up to the poverty level. It's not the government's JOB to implement "fairness" because "fairness", in what you're meaning, DOESN'T EXIST because someone is ALWAYS going to get screwed. You know what's fair? The guy at the bottom has/had the SAME opportunities to make it as the guy at the top. If he didn't, he should have gotten off his lazy ass and done something about it.
Grow the hell up. The government isn't your nanny.
It's regressive, because it's regressive. It's a consumption tax. Consumption as a % of gross income is much, much higher the lower you go on the income scale. Consumption is not truly elective one you get down to the middle class. You need goods to feed, cloth, house and transport a family.
And, there are absolutely no spending controls, so it achieves nothing, other than the aforementioned burden shift from upper to middle. The poor make out okay, so they wont whine much, but working professionals like myself will see our effective tax rates soar.
As for your nanny comment - are you really using that kind of language and strawman to tell me to grow up? Oh brother.
Artifice Wrote:And, there are absolutely no spending controls, so it achieves nothing, other than the aforementioned burden shift from upper to middle. The poor make out okay, so they wont whine much, but working professionals like myself will see our effective tax rates soar.
How in the hell does it shift the burden from the upper to you? How much do you make right now? If you're paying 25% then it'll be a tax reduction. Add in the fact that there's a prebate up to the poverty level every month, and it'll be even more. It'll be the ONLY tax you pay. Your argument makes NO sense.
![[Image: 2008-taxrates.jpg]](http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h228/burnsk73/2008-taxrates.jpg)
Rebel Wrote:Artifice Wrote:And, there are absolutely no spending controls, so it achieves nothing, other than the aforementioned burden shift from upper to middle. The poor make out okay, so they wont whine much, but working professionals like myself will see our effective tax rates soar.
How in the hell does it shift the burden from the upper to you? How much do you make right now? If you're paying 25% then it'll be a tax reduction. Add in the fact that there's a prebate up to the poverty level every month, and it'll be even more. It'll be the ONLY tax you pay. Your argument makes NO sense.
I do not care to divulge what I make, but suffice to say, I am in the top 15% of US household income. As I said, I am a professional, and I deal with tax planning and reporting as part of my job, so this is based on common sense and experience and not ideology.
And, assuming your 23% was accurate, and wasn't a bogus interpretation of a 30% rate, even 23% would be a huge effective tax rate increase. For the last 3 years, these are my effective tax rates:
2005 8.7%
2006 9.2%
2007 11.8%
ETI defined as federal tax payable/gross income. Even if I add in FICA, it's still an increase.
The so called fair tax proposal is championed by those that would benefit the most from it - very high wage earners and the wealthy. Basically, the top 6% of America. The fairtax takes a huge portion of their historical burden and passes it downstream, not to the poor, but to the already heavily burdened middle class.