GGniner Wrote:

Jugnaut Wrote:With incest you've got to worry about deformities. Other than that, if they don't reproduce, then it should not be illegal. Consensual acts that do not harm others should not be illegal. That doesn't mean we have to like it!

We shouldn't have any laws based on morals! Laws should be based on consent and harm analysis!

and homosexuality produces disease, not to mention no State should do anything to promote it for its own viability. Paticularly one such as the Western Welfare State that is completely dependent on the Christian Family structure to reproduce above its replinishment rate to pay for its Big Govt. spending. In Europe they are in the midst of a crisis due to the fact that women are barely having kids, which is bad for the Ponzi Scheme they've created for themselves longterm viability.
Its the contradiction of the Secular Western World, which is probably in its last days by looking at the Demographics at play in Europe.

Morals(true morality that is) and Laws that are in place to "protect others" go hand in hand. Incest produces deformaties, Homosexuality produces disease, Pedophilia is Child abuse.

meanwhile, NAMBLA being ahead of the curve of postmodern thought, is arguing along with other groups to lower the Age of Consent and that Pedophiles should be legal on the basis of "they love each other". and of course in Sharia based countries, Hetero- based Pedophilia is considered the standard, 'good', and following the example of their 'prophet'.

While I personally do not advocate homosexuality or insest, I still oppose the use of violence against those that do. Pedophilia is a crime and I have no problem with societal punishment of any crime against person or property. I would prefer to ostracise those that have practices that I dissaprove of...not iniatiate violence upon them or have the state serve as my surrogate in that violence.

GGniner Wrote:

smn1256 Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:Morals(true morality that is) and Laws that are in place to "protect others" go hand in hand. Incest produces deformaties, Homosexuality produces disease, Pedophilia is Child abuse.

I don't disagree with you but what diseases hit the gay community that don't afflict straight people. Is AIDS still more prominent with gay people than non-gays? I haven't seen statistics in a long time.

here is some empircal evidence of the behavior, beyond the fact that consistent homosexual behavior will never result in children, the designed purpose of our sexual anatomy, but also there is something else unhealthy about it.

from the Center of Disease control:

http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/topics/surveillan...efault.htm

Quote:“In the USA, it is estimated that nearly 300,000 men were living with AIDS at the end of 2002, and another 420,000 had died. Almost 60% of men diagnosed with HIV/AIDS in the USA were probably exposed to the virus through male-to-male sexual contact.”

from what I understand, it takes Sodomy to break enough skin tissue up to produce the type of blood transfusion needed, doesn't happen with normal sex.

To me, something as unnatural as that is common sense its bad for you.


the whole subject is hilarious from a "libertarian" point of view, when these same people idolize Thomas Jefferson. Who had some pretty strong views(and Laws passed) on the subject, as did William Blackstone.

The ONLY Libertarian or pro-liberty position I really need to understand is the non-iniation of force principle...even if I dont approve of someones actions. Its all about my right and yours to control our property as long as we do no harm to anothers.

GGniner Wrote:

jh Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:It's taken thousands of years to get to the point of trying to redefine marriage, and its only coming now in the Western World because Fixed morality has been replaced with Evolving Morality(i.e. Humanism) by the Postmoderns.

What is this "fixed morality" you speak of & where does it come from?

see the SCOTUS decision I posted on outlawing Polygamy.

Sir William Blackstone wrote alot about this as well, probably the most influential legal thinker that influenced the founders. see his Commentaries..

I didn't see anything about a fixed morality in the section you quoted. What I saw was that polygamy was immoral because all civilized coutries considered it to be so. This sounds a lot like moral relativity to me (which I consider to be the correct position). If there is an objective set or moral rules somewhere, rules that are clear, well established, & have stood the test of time, I'd love to see them (it's not that I care, I just want to know how many I violate on a daily basis). I just don't see how it is possible to claim that there is a fixed morality when it is an objective fact that what is considered to be morally acceptable has changed throughout time, even amongst the "Christian Nations."

As for AIDS, by your own link 40% of American men with HIV did not get it through homosexual contact. I'm willing to wager that virtually 0% of women worldwide got it from homosexual contact. I believe that it is primarily a heterosexual disease in Africa. While unprotected male homosexual intercourse is one of the primary risk factors in America, AIDS is not a homosexual disease.

Finally, why do you continue to insist that people like myself must worship at the alter of Thomas Jefferson. He had many good ideas about the proper scope of government, along with some bad ones, but his personal virtue leaves much to be desired, especially by today's standards. He was a racist (see Notes on the State of Virginia, though not necessarily by the standards of the time), a slave owner (considered quite moral at the time), and quite possibly repeatedly had sex with one of his slaves (said to be his late wife's half-sister and bear a striking resemblence to her). Why would I care what his thoughts on homosexuality were? You need to learn that it is possible to recognize great minds while not being blind to their faults, to learn from both the successes & failures of the past. There's no need to worship anything, much less anyone.

jh Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:

jh Wrote:

GGniner Wrote:It's taken thousands of years to get to the point of trying to redefine marriage, and its only coming now in the Western World because Fixed morality has been replaced with Evolving Morality(i.e. Humanism) by the Postmoderns.

What is this "fixed morality" you speak of & where does it come from?

see the SCOTUS decision I posted on outlawing Polygamy.

Sir William Blackstone wrote alot about this as well, probably the most influential legal thinker that influenced the founders. see his Commentaries..

I didn't see anything about a fixed morality in the section you quoted. What I saw was that polygamy was immoral because all civilized coutries considered it to be so. This sounds a lot like moral relativity to me (which I consider to be the correct position). If there is an objective set or moral rules somewhere, rules that are clear, well established, & have stood the test of time, I'd love to see them (it's not that I care, I just want to know how many I violate on a daily basis). I just don't see how it is possible to claim that there is a fixed morality when it is an objective fact that what is considered to be morally acceptable has changed throughout time, even amongst the "Christian Nations."

As for AIDS, by your own link 40% of American men with HIV did not get it through homosexual contact. I'm willing to wager that virtually 0% of women worldwide got it from homosexual contact. I believe that it is primarily a heterosexual disease in Africa. While unprotected male homosexual intercourse is one of the primary risk factors in America, AIDS is not a homosexual disease.

Finally, why do you continue to insist that people like myself must worship at the alter of Thomas Jefferson. He had many good ideas about the proper scope of government, along with some bad ones, but his personal virtue leaves much to be desired, especially by today's standards. He was a racist (see Notes on the State of Virginia, though not necessarily by the standards of the time), a slave owner (considered quite moral at the time), and quite possibly repeatedly had sex with one of his slaves (said to be his late wife's half-sister and bear a striking resemblence to her). Why would I care what his thoughts on homosexuality were? You need to learn that it is possible to recognize great minds while not being blind to their faults, to learn from both the successes & failures of the past. There's no need to worship anything, much less anyone.

The mere fact that our own founding document allows slavery is enough evidence that moral views of the time are not the apex of virture.