http://revision3.com/forum/showthread.ph...67&page=28

Read as I have some exchanges with them.

These people depress me. They see no value in the Constitution. They think it's a relic unable to address the needs of modern government.

They fully believe in the ethics of social security and medicare. They believe it a legit function of government to take care of everybody. They are fans of the nanny state.

They hold no high regard for civil liberties. One said they would even trade their civil liberties for health care coverage.

Clearly Montana needs to secede and the rest of the southeast and midwest needs to join them.

Yeah, its disgusts me to read that stuff. These people think the government is their best friend and should take of them from cradle to grave. If you think Bush apologists are bad, just wait till Obama gets in office.

I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the public education system has gone to crap in the past 35 years or so. The Libs know their scheme won’t work if people have the ability to think and reason.

Look what comes out of the schools today...

You have a bunch of people today (both young and old) that don’t seem to give a damn about the big problems .. they don’t give a damn about the surrender of US sovereignty, they encourage government interference, they want transnational regulation, etc.

Are they just morons..or were they “encouraged” to think that way?

WMD Owl Wrote:I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the public education system has gone to crap in the past 35 years or so. The Libs know their scheme won’t work if people have the ability to think and reason.

Look what comes out of the schools today...

You have a bunch of people today (both young and old) that don’t seem to give a damn about the big problems .. they don’t give a damn about the surrender of US sovereignty, they encourage government interference, they want transnational regulation, etc.

Are they just morons..or were they “encouraged” to think that way?

WMD Owl, you have government-educated people in the country, mainly Democrats, that think GW Bush should have went in, with guns and gold a blazin', 10 seconds after Katrina hit. What makes you think they know anything else when they don't even understand a simple concept about how government, federal vs. state vs. local, works? These same, government-educated, morons have probably never even heard of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

We're not dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer here.

Rebel Wrote:

WMD Owl Wrote:I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the public education system has gone to crap in the past 35 years or so. The Libs know their scheme won’t work if people have the ability to think and reason.

Look what comes out of the schools today...

You have a bunch of people today (both young and old) that don’t seem to give a damn about the big problems .. they don’t give a damn about the surrender of US sovereignty, they encourage government interference, they want transnational regulation, etc.

Are they just morons..or were they “encouraged” to think that way?

WMD Owl, you have government-educated people in the country, mainly Democrats, that think GW Bush should have went in, with guns and gold a blazin', 10 seconds after Katrina hit. What makes you think they know anything else when they don't even understand a simple concept about how government, federal vs. state vs. local, works? These same, government-educated, morons have probably never even heard of the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878.

We're not dealing with the sharpest knives in the drawer here.

Thats there position now, had he done that they would be Posse Comitatus experts right now and moved for his impeachment.


similarly, had Bush not done Patriot Act they'd be domestic security experts and all over the Jihad thing. All the plots busted thanks the act, had they materialized(probable) in absence of the Patriot Act then each case would've been "bushes fault", Direlect in Duty, etc.

and of course, had he bowed down to Saddam the Democrats and the media would have lectured on and on about the Terror connections Saddam had to Al-Qaeda and other Jihadist groups and how he was a "State Sponsor of Terror" and a dangerous regime that was our enemy, and tough action needed to be taken. All the old media reports on this from the 90's would've been rehashed and they would've asserted Bush was Direlect in Duty after 9/11 of all times in our history, etc. etc. Case in point:



will be interesting to see how History judges this.

.....and therein lies the f'n problem, G. Politicians care more about their own f'n careers as pampered politicians and their own parties than they do what's good for the country. Damnit, we need statesmen, NOT politicians.

Democrats can't stand this country because they're not running it. When they are, they love it. SHOULD IT F'N MATTER!!!!?

.....and any of you Libertarians out there, don't start. You don't start at the f'n Presidency. You start at the local level and move up. Geta Libertarian governor elected and we'll talk. I would easily vote for one over Sonny Purdue. He's not bad, but damnit, I'm tired of f'n stocking up on beer on Saturday because I can't buy it on Sunday. ......but a lottery? Oh, well that's ok. F'n hypocrites.

Liberals don't understand the real world. They pass a bunch of requirements on US companies like enviromental regulations, sick pay, family leave, taxes, health care, and minimum wages. Its no surprise why jobs are being outsourced and US business being taken over by foreign companies. Add up the medicare, Social security,health insurance and wages paid out buy american companies. A Chinese or Indian company has a fraction of those costs. After OBama increases taxes on the american oil companies, expect them to move their corporate headquarters overseas and become foreign oil companies. Remember SOHIO....they were so broke they had to borrow money from foreign companies....now its part of British Petroleum. They call it BP because most americans are too dumb to realize that they are buying gas from a foreign oil company. Its sad Obama bashes EXxon for its huge profits.....atleast its still an american company....after 4 years of Obama.....I'm sure some foreign oil company will buy them out and move the headquaters overseas so the profits won't be taxed and they won't have have some liberal politicial with no business experience telling them how to run their business. After Obama runs more corporations and jobs overseas, the liberals will have turned everybody into a democrat wanting the government to offer social security, health care and and unemployment benefits. Would you rather have a job with health care benefits and a 401k or social security, unemployment check with health care benefits.

Some of those people astound me. They talk of how glorious Europe is, yet they live here? They want to change our system to mirror Europe's, despite the fact that the nation was found to limit govn't? They think the govn't is the solution to all problems? They are willing to sacrifice liberties for health care and free education?

I would go on but, OW!!!, my head hurts from trying to comprehend them.

P.S. I think being the nation's top accountant would suck.

Rebel Wrote:Damnit, we need statesmen, NOT politicians.

That's two sayings of mine you've picked up today. Are you feeling well?

T-Monay820 Wrote:Some of those people astound me. They talk of how glorious Europe is, yet they live here? They want to change our system to mirror Europe's, despite the fact that the nation was found to limit govn't? They think the govn't is the solution to all problems? They are willing to sacrifice liberties for health care and free education?

I would go on but, OW!!!, my head hurts from trying to comprehend them.

P.S. I think being the nation's top accountant would suck.

The sad thing is that we're headed toward where Europe has been, and they've seen the light and are headed back more towards where we've been. If the Europeans keep electing people like Sarkozy, Merkel, and Berlusconi, and we put the liberal democrats in power and keep them there, we may exchange place with them over the next 25 years.

We can look at the last 50 years of European history to see where the road leads. When you implement cradle to grave socialist welfare, and pay for it by taxing just "the rich" (who aren't really the rich, but that's another story), you end up with a situation like Sweden had, where, after factoring in all welfare payments and taxes, the difference in take-home between being unemployed and making $100,000 a year was less than $1,000 a year (the unemployed person got $24,000 in welfare benefits and the person making $100,000 paid $75,000 in taxes). That environment stifles initiative, leads to feelings that life is meaningless or worthless, and drives out anyone with money to invest to create jobs.

Why do we have to go through the same 50 years to learn the same lessons that they've already learned?

georgia_tech_swagger Wrote:

Rebel Wrote:Damnit, we need statesmen, NOT politicians.

That's two sayings of mine you've picked up today. Are you feeling well?

I've been saying that for years. Don't flatter yourself.

OUBOBCATJOHN Wrote:Liberals don't understand the real world. They pass a bunch of requirements on US companies like enviromental regulations, sick pay, family leave, taxes, health care, and minimum wages. Its no surprise why jobs are being outsourced and US business being taken over by foreign companies. Add up the medicare, Social security,health insurance and wages paid out buy american companies. A Chinese or Indian company has a fraction of those costs. After OBama increases taxes on the american oil companies, expect them to move their corporate headquarters overseas and become foreign oil companies. Remember SOHIO....they were so broke they had to borrow money from foreign companies....now its part of British Petroleum. They call it BP because most americans are too dumb to realize that they are buying gas from a foreign oil company. Its sad Obama bashes EXxon for its huge profits.....atleast its still an american company....after 4 years of Obama.....I'm sure some foreign oil company will buy them out and move the headquaters overseas so the profits won't be taxed and they won't have have some liberal politicial with no business experience telling them how to run their business. After Obama runs more corporations and jobs overseas, the liberals will have turned everybody into a democrat wanting the government to offer social security, health care and and unemployment benefits. Would you rather have a job with health care benefits and a 401k or social security, unemployment check with health care benefits.

At least some liberals understand that companies move overseas regardless of taxes, because the cost of doing business overseas is so much less already. Although additional taxes won't help, it's going to happen anyway. I know of at least one company that is at the top of its industry and has been doing really well (and brags about how well they're doing), but is still moving stuff overseas.

Decisions about moving or locating business facilities are made based generally upon four factors:

1. Labor
2. Capital
3. Market
4. Risk

We're going to lose the labor battle when the job is sewing Nikes together. That's okay, that's probably not a battle we want to win. When the process gets more complex, so that a more skilled and sophisticated worker is required, we should win a lot of those battles. Unfortunately, our education system has declined to the point that we don't win those either.

We lose the capital battle because our tax code is not nearly as friendly to investors as many of the competing countries. The Europeans have learned that socialism doesn't work without jobs, and jobs don't exist without factories, and factories come where they get the friendliest tax treatment. As a result they generally have lower corporate income tax, capital gains tax, and dividend taxes than we do. They also generally use a consumption/VAT/sales tax to generate a significant portion of their tax revenues, and that form of tax is much friendlier to export sales than is our current tax system.

The US is a big enough market that we usually win in the market area. When the relevant market is global rather than this country, we generally lose because of tax considerations. Market factors explain why many foreign auto makers have built assembly plants here to assemble cars for the US market, but not for export. NAFTA has given Mexico and Canada pretty much equal access to the US market, and has been blamed for huge job losses, but I'm of the opinion that actual job losses due to NAFTA have been small (when you take out the jobs were NAFTA wasn't a factor), and that actual job gains due to NAFTA have outweighed the losses.

There are several generally acknowledged risk areas--market risk, currency risk, country risk, litigation risk, regulatory risk, political risk. Our economy is generally as healthy as anyone's, so we do okay on market risk. The current dollar decline is causing us to lose some currency risk battles--getting the federal budget into balance and reducing our dependence on imported oil would both help us in this area. Country risk has always been a strong area for us, although some of our recent infrastructure failures (Twin Cities bridge, New Orelans levees) might introduce an element of doubt here). We lose big on litigation risk because of our jackpot tort ltigation system. Tort reform would help here. We also lose big on regulatory risk becuase of our command-and-control regulatory system, exemplified by OSHA and EPA. Going to more market-based incentives in this area would make us more competitive (and IMO would also do a better job of cleaning up the environment and improving worker safety). Political risk has always been sort of a slam-dunk victory for the US. But if things start happening like penalizing companies that reorganize overseas to escape US taxes, that could turn around in a hurry.

Too much of the heat about job loss has been focused on NAFTA and overseas sweat shops. If we really want to address the problem, we should instead be focusing light on the factors outlined above. Addressing these issues will let us gain jobs that we want, jobs that add value and thus can pay accordingly. I really don't think most of us want us to add a bunch of jobs sewing together Nikes.