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HiddenDragon Wrote:

Flying Mouse Wrote:The lack of low post game is what i was referring to ... vaden would be needed to stretch the court. Without him, world of hurt.

We didn't stretch the court with Vaden last season. Once teams figured out all we had was an outside game they "D" our shooters and dared us to go inside. Nothing is going to change that strategy if we don't get some type of a scoring inside presence.

Beg to differ. Huffman tore up both VCU and Houston that way. And he and Frank had fantastic field goal percentages. Frank set the school record for season FG percentage.

Flying Mouse Wrote:

HiddenDragon Wrote:

Flying Mouse Wrote:The lack of low post game is what i was referring to ... vaden would be needed to stretch the court. Without him, world of hurt.

We didn't stretch the court with Vaden last season. Once teams figured out all we had was an outside game they "D" our shooters and dared us to go inside. Nothing is going to change that strategy if we don't get some type of a scoring inside presence.

Beg to differ. Huffman tore up both VCU and Houston that way. And he and Frank had fantastic field goal percentages. Frank set the school record for season FG percentage.

Yeah, but Mouse, I have to agree with HD. Though Huffman was brutal to VCU, he was hit and miss (maybe from his back?). He really missed in the VT game. Frank sat out some key minutes in games due to foul trouble (and pi$$ing off CMD), too.
It also seemed that if we were off from the outside, i.e. Vaden cold shooting, our inside/down low game just couldn't shoulder the load or even buy us time. This was abundantly evident after we lost Sharpe.

UAB only had an inside game at all when people were scared of Vaden. That is the point. They only got the shots at all because of Vaden's presence. On their own, those shots would be contested.

If Vaden is gone, the offense probably becomes more like Memphis -- drive and pitch.

Sharpe may play better facing the basket, but I saw him make some great plays on the block, back to the basket. He also can finish strong if he receives the ball in the post off of dribble-penetration or a fast break and has good patience when in the post.

Vaden might have opened up other scoring options, but I don't know if he specifically stretched the court for our bigs. He definitely drew double and triple teams, and the best example of him allowing other players to take over is probably the Houston game. Look at the stats of that game and see who was in double figures. Houston played locked down defense on him, and even though he scored in double figures, I believe he was only our fourth leading scorer in that game.

Personally, I believe that Sharpe doesn't need Vaden to be effective. In my opinion, Sharpe is a really good one on one player, and when he gets doubled, he can be an effective passing big man ( he has good vision but he could improve on avoiding turnovers). The same goes for Delaney. Delaney obviously is a good one on one player and has an array of athletic moves and creative finishes with the ability to draw the foul. Also, he is a very good passer. Even though he is not a "true" point guard, when he played point as junior he average more assists than Johnson did last year. He will be incredible if he's back to full speed/strength and if he's developed a mid range jumper and 3 pointer.

Here's how I see it: Vaden, Sharpe, and Delaney(assuming Sharpe and Vaden return and Delaney's healthy) will form our team's "big three." I know we had this for a short time, but the players did not know their roles well, and we did not have time for this to develop. When Sharpe went out, Kinnard and Toney became our 2nd and 3rd offensive options. With Sharpe and Delaney back, they will become 4th and 5th options, and those are pretty darn good 4th and 5th options. Add T-Rod to the mix with Aaron running the point and creating, we should have a pretty good team. I think our biggest concern will be unexpected occurences (injuries, ineligibility etc) and lack of depth in the post. I think Crawford is a really good offensive post player and has a good shooting touch, but he lacks size and is not good at defense. We all know about Mayfield. Hopefully, we will sign someone, or Mayfield and Crawford will somehow improve dramatically. This team could shape up to be like last year's team was supposed to be with slightly less depth. The difference is experience and the fact that everyone should know their role. We shouldn't have lack of chemistry excuses this year. Of course, this depends on the return of Vaden and Sharpe.

Pretty good analysis seasonticket but my guess is that there are several new pieces on the court and that several key players you mention above will not be there.

at some point [soon], I'd hope our PROGRAM would become LARGER than any individual

I wish RV the best in whatever he chooses.

+1

We have not even made it to the start of practice yet. Chances are good that there will be more developments both good and bad that will change our thinking. We could very well lose players to academics, discipline, injury, or transfer. We could pick up somebody good late in the process. Who knows?

As to Sharpe's passing, he's a pretty good passer when he sticks to basics. Many of his turnovers are on sneaky fast or no look passes that seem to catch the other player by surprise. Sometimes it's a bad pass, and sometimes he fakes out our own player as well as the guy guarding him.

If Vaden's drawing double and sometimes triple teams there has got to be somebody open to score if we can get the ball to him.

Flying Mouse Wrote:UAB only had an inside game at all when people were scared of Vaden. That is the point. They only got the shots at all because of Vaden's presence. On their own, those shots would be contested.

If Vaden is gone, the offense probably becomes more like Memphis -- drive and pitch.

I'll take drive and pitch if it makes our bigs better. But so what if people were scared of Vaden. It just proves my point that UAB needs an inside presence to take advantage of people double teaming Vaden or any other shooter.

It is really simple; an inside game helps get your shooters better shots. On the flip side an outside can open up your inside game but this only works if you got bigs who can take advantage of this. After Sharpe left the team we didn't have that presence aside from Huffman who could only shoot from 3 ft.

So while Vaden would be missed he can replaced. We haven't found a person yet capable of doing what Sharpe can do.

Vaden can't be replaced. Stop kidding yourselves. I love that blast of sunshine.

Lose the best returning player in the conference? Eh, it's just a flesh wound. The real loss is the center with poor defense who never scored a point in a conference game. hhahahahahaahahahaah

UAB Band Dad Wrote:+1

We have not even made it to the start of practice yet. Chances are good that there will be more developments both good and bad that will change our thinking. We could very well lose players to academics, discipline, injury, or transfer. We could pick up somebody good late in the process. Who knows? ...

what HE said


the 'offseason'

Vaden's final day anaylsis on draftexpress.com:

Robert Vaden finished off the camp with another fairly solid performance, scoring 11 points in 21 minutes to go along with 3 assists and no turnovers. He’s really impressed with his ability to move off the ball, read screens and find open shots for himself, elevating sharply and creating separation from his defender and throwing the ball in the basket with machine like efficiency, despite his violent leg kicks. He’s really strong and has clearly worked on his body since the season ended, and did a much better job playing within the offense and setting up teammates than he did earlier in this camp. On the negative side, he’s not the most athletic or creative player you’ll find in terms of his ball-handling skills, favoring his right hand strongly and struggling to finish that at times around the rim. It appears that he’ll be returning to school, and it will be interesting to see what kind of year he has next season.

Hope they're right.

Flying Mouse Wrote:Vaden can't be replaced. Stop kidding yourselves. I love that blast of sunshine.

Lose the best returning player in the conference? Eh, it's just a flesh wound. The real loss is the center with poor defense who never scored a point in a conference game. hhahahahahaahahahaah

And I love the fact that you and others think UAB will not survive next season if he doesn't return. UAB has had successful programs without Vaden and I think they will continue to do just fine this season and in the future.

No one is trying to down play the loss of a great talent such as Vaden. It could be argued that Vaden played better at the NBA Camp than he did at UAB. It may have even been a blessing in diguise for Vaden that UAB didn't have a low post threat because it meant it had to find other ways to create his shot since he was often double-teamed.

But UAB has other guys that can shoot. Maybe not as dynamic of a shooter than Vaden but we have guys that can drain three's. We don't have a guy that can give us 12 pts and 10 rebounds in the low post.

We can agree to disagree FM.

You're both right. If Vaden goes pro UAB will still field a team next season. If he goes pro that team will have lost an important player and won't be nearly as good as it would have been with him.

I continue to believe that Vaden will return. He's not ready yet. He's gotten valuable experience and coaching, he's worked hard, he's making a name for himself with the NBA scouts. No way he's a first rounder though, and his chances to become one are going to be better if he comes back here and plays another year.

Yes, we need post players either way - but I'd rather have an outside shooter and need a big than need both.

UAB Band Dad Wrote:You're both right. If Vaden goes pro UAB will still field a team next season. If he goes pro that team will have lost an important player and won't be nearly as good as it would have been with him.

I continue to believe that Vaden will return. He's not ready yet. He's gotten valuable experience and coaching, he's worked hard, he's making a name for himself with the NBA scouts. No way he's a first rounder though, and his chances to become one are going to be better if he comes back here and plays another year.

Yes, we need post players either way - but I'd rather have an outside shooter and need a big than need both.

+Amen

Again Band Dad is dead on target with another head shot like a Ranger Sniper.

HiddenDragon Wrote:

Flying Mouse Wrote:Vaden can't be replaced. Stop kidding yourselves. I love that blast of sunshine.

Lose the best returning player in the conference? Eh, it's just a flesh wound. The real loss is the center with poor defense who never scored a point in a conference game. hhahahahahaahahahaah

And I love the fact that you and others think UAB will not survive next season if he doesn't return. UAB has had successful programs without Vaden and I think they will continue to do just fine this season and in the future.

No one is trying to down play the loss of a great talent such as Vaden. It could be argued that Vaden played better at the NBA Camp than he did at UAB. It may have even been a blessing in diguise for Vaden that UAB didn't have a low post threat because it meant it had to find other ways to create his shot since he was often double-teamed.

But UAB has other guys that can shoot. Maybe not as dynamic of a shooter than Vaden but we have guys that can drain three's. We don't have a guy that can give us 12 pts and 10 rebounds in the low post.

We can agree to disagree FM.

UAB should have success next season with or without Vaden. Just by adding Delaney and T-Rod the team will have offensive options. When you have multiple options, you are able to dictate how a team can defend. By having three to four good scoring options on the perimeter, you can move your post players out to face the basket. By allowing a Kinnard, Mayfield, or Sharpe face the basket, it will allow then to attack from a position of comfort.

This team should make the Tourney with our without Vaden. If we sign a good role player with size to toughen the inside, this team makes the tourney without Vaden and Sharpe.

I love the fact that some people think I meant either-or.

Never said UAB would not make the tournament or have a good year.

Said they would miss Vaden a hell of a lot more than some people were making out to be.

And that is assuming Vaden and Sharpe are the only departures.

Well I'm sure UAB misses Oliver Robinson, Andy Kennedy, Steve Mitchell and so on and so on and so on.

I kid with you FM but Vaden will be missed a lot less if UAB makes the tourney without him. He will be missed a lot more if the Blazers don't make the tourney without him.

Quote:NBA's predraft camp should send some players back to school


The big names, the 15 guys who are pretty much first-round locks, were in Orlando for the NBA's predraft camp mainly just to talk --and get poked and prodded a bit.


For the other 64 guys at Disney's Milk House gym, this was an opportunity to show they belonged. Some were trying to prove they deserve a spot in the first round. For others, the goal was to prove they are draft-worthy. A complicated mathematical calculation (64 + 15 = 79) tells us that not everybody who showed up will be among the 60 players drafted.

For those players with college eligibility remaining, though, a tough decision is looming -- June 16 is the withdrawal deadline. They can go forward with their draft hopes, or they can put off their NBA dreams, go back to school for at least another season and help shape the NCAA Tournament. An NBA scout's take on some such players:

Wayne Ellington, SG, North Carolina. "He's done some things well, but he's been really inconsistent. I'm not sure he's played himself up -- not into the first round for sure -- so I would think he'll go back."

Danny Green, SG, North Carolina. "His ankle's been banged up pretty good. He hasn't looked horrible out there, but you can tell he's been limited. He came into this camp and wanted to overwhelm us, but with the injury -- and it's not like he hid it, which is good -- I think his odds of going back probably increased."

Richard Hendrix, PF, Alabama. "He rebounds, he's strong and always cleans up around the paint. He's got good touch. Everybody knocks him for his size (6-9, 255), but if expectations are realistic, I think whoever gets him will be happy. He's pretty much guaranteed second round and probably early."

Ty Lawson, PG, North Carolina. "He came in against Lester Hudson (Tennessee-Martin) and shut him down, and Hudson's pretty tough off the dribble. Then he did a good job of getting into the lane and scoring. His jump shot's the one thing that's not all the way there yet. Of all the Carolina guys, he's the one who helped himself out most."

Luc Richard Mbah a Moute, PF, UCLA. "He's shown the ability to guard the twos and threes, which is surprising with how big (6-8, 232) he is. He's not just long, he's got great lateral movement, stays in front of guys and does a little bit of everything. I'm not sure if he'll stay in, but a lot of teams would be happy to take him in the second round."

Ryan Fagan is a writer for Sporting News

not that this directly article talks about Vaden, but I thought it was an interesting take on things:

Testing the NBA waters