Watched the documentary last night. Very interesting. A couple of points to ponder. Why don't we expect our fireman to be for profit? How about policemen? Why is it that we allow health care to be for profit? Their is something fundamentally wrong with a system that rewards doctors for denying care. The doctor's who deny the most care get the biggest bonus. HMO's sprang up in the 70's under Nixon. You guys should watch it. Ask any Canadian what they think of their health care. Last year I was vacationing in Niagra Falls and did ask a guy about it. He loved it. Don't just go by BOR or Rush on this one. Actually ask a Canadian what they think of nationalized health care. I think the majority of you would be surprised. I know personally health care in my household and work is becoming a big problem. The salaries of these CEO's at Blue Cross and Kaiser are sickening. BTW Hillary has been cashing big checks from the HMO side. Don't expect any help from her.

I have. The best man at my wedding. He hated it.

I have family in Canada. They love it. From what they tell me, it beats the crap out of the system we have here.

The system is broke and flawed.

Machiavelli Wrote:The system is broke and flawed.

In Canada? I agree. How about another Socialist utopia right south of us?

Quote:Why don't we expect our fireman to be for profit? How about policemen? Why is it that we allow health care to be for profit?

Because firemen and policemen don't go to school for 8 years to be firemen and policemen. They aren't required to study their asses off to able to do their jobs. They aren't responsible for diagnosing serious illnesses and determining a treatement. They don't put themselves a few hundred grand in debt in order to be firemen or policement. That's why.

I worked with several folks in Canada. Some like it, some don't. So obviously you can't as "any" Canadian who will say they love it.

Quote:So obviously you can't as "any" Canadian who will say they love it.

Agree. I just don't think it's the bogeyman many portray it to be.

Machiavelli Wrote:

Quote:So obviously you can't as "any" Canadian who will say they love it.

Agree. I just don't think it's the bogeyman many portray it to be.

It has its issues just like our system. Such as long wait times for services and shortage of doctors. No system is perfect.

The question is also philisophical. Why should I have to pay for your healthcare?

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:

Quote:So obviously you can't as "any" Canadian who will say they love it.

Agree. I just don't think it's the bogeyman many portray it to be.

It has its issues just like our system. None is perfect.

The question is also philisophical. Why should I have to pay for your healthcare?

No, you won't have to pay for it, the government will have to pay for it. There's a difference.

Nobody has done it yet so I will.

Blah blah blah, Michael Moore is a kook. blah blah blah fat slob. blah blah blah traitor. blah blah blah I <3 George Bush.

It's totally philosophical. Why should my tax dollars go pay for a war I don't support. Why should the federal govt. pay to clean up hurricane's in Fl. when they don't have a state income tax. Why do we have an NIH? Why should my tax dollars support NASA?


I guess to get down to brass tax. Why are willing to make sure a criminal gets a lawyer? Why do we allow for Al-Queada in Gitmo to get better health care than 9-11 workers?

Machiavelli Wrote:It's totally philosophical. Why should my tax dollars go pay for a war I don't support. Why should the federal govt. pay to clean up hurricane's in Fl. when they don't have a state income tax. Why do we have an NIH? Why should my tax dollars support NASA?


I guess to get down to brass tax. Why are willing to make sure a criminal gets a lawyer? Why do we allow for Al-Queada in Gitmo to get better health care than 9-11 workers?

Defense of this nation and providing counsel are both constitutional requirements. As for the other things, good point. NASA could be viewed as having a part in national defense. Hurricane cleanup should be done through charity and the state.


As for Florida not having a state income tax, they have a retail sales tax that funds their government.

Machiavelli Wrote:It's totally philosophical. Why should my tax dollars go pay for a war I don't support.

Because the constitution grants that power to the federal government. No where does it say you have to support it.

Quote:Why should the federal govt. pay to clean up hurricane's in Fl. when they don't have a state income tax. Why do we have an NIH? Why should my tax dollars support NASA?

All good questions.

Quote:I guess to get down to brass tax. Why are willing to make sure a criminal gets a lawyer?

Cause the constitution says we have to.

Quote:Why do we allow for Al-Queada in Gitmo to get better health care than 9-11 workers?

Thanks Michael.

Show me in the constitution where healthercare is a guaranteed right and you'll have me on board.

Brass Tax? The tuba players union will not be happy...

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Brass Tax? The tuba players union will not be happy...

Excellent.

RebelKev Wrote:

Machiavelli Wrote:The system is broke and flawed.

In Canada? I agree. How about another Socialist utopia right south of us?

No silly. It's broke and flawed here.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you have no idea what Socialism is. You probably heard it quoted in some talking points a few times, so you thought it would make you sound smarter if you dropped it into conversation a few times.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:No silly. It's broke and flawed here.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you have no idea what Socialism is. You probably heard it quoted in some talking points a few times, so you thought it would make you sound smarter if you dropped it into conversation a few times.

Talking points? I don't get talking points. ...and yes, I do know what Socialism is. Canada's healthcare is a socialistic program. Care to state otherwise?

Just in the last 15 years think about the changes in health care. Now they have all these commercials pumping drugs at us. The cost of them are outrageous. The market is not in play. You have an over inflated system and the lobbyist control it. It's not a Red and Blue issue either. We are not getting the bang for our buck. All these countries with socialized medicine live longer than the avg. American. The AMA is just as guilty in all of this as the insurance lobbyist's. You have to have insurance in this system or if a catatstrophe happens your bankrupt. It's going to take a grass roots movement. You can't count on the politicians to fix the problem because their is way too much money from the other side. The Representative who pushed the medi-care prescription benefit through is now a 2 million dollar a year lobbyist for a pharmaceutical. Billy Touler or something like that. Believe me, I believe in markets but I don't think you can take market principles to health care. If you have cancer your going to do whatever it takes. Why would you have to declare bankruptcy if your child had a terminal disease? It doesn't make sense. We have to change the nation's mindset here. I'm just trying to do my little part.

RebelKev Wrote:

the other Greg Childers Wrote:No silly. It's broke and flawed here.

Plus, I'm pretty sure you have no idea what Socialism is. You probably heard it quoted in some talking points a few times, so you thought it would make you sound smarter if you dropped it into conversation a few times.

Talking points? I don't get talking points. ...and yes, I do know what Socialism is. Canada's healthcare is a socialistic program. Care to state otherwise?

So what your're saying is that the former Soviet union practiced Canada's healthcare?

I'm pretty sure you don't know what Socialism is. I'm also pretty sure you "don't get" talking points. They're probably over your head.

the other Greg Childers Wrote:So what your're saying is that the former Soviet union practiced Canada's healthcare?

I'm pretty sure you don't know what Socialism is. I'm also pretty sure you "don't get" talking points. They're probably over your head.

Look dipshit, the wealth redistribution it's going to take for the government to provide healthcare is Socialism. You talk about my intellect yet it seems to be you that is lacking in that department. You constantly talk about what an utter failure government has been, yet you want to essentially hand the medical industry over to the same government. Pretty ******* stupid if you ask me, but it's right up your ally.