Who really cares though, poker is much more fun.

About Ohio

Totally ridiculous comment to start out the post. Just because Ohio in general is not doing well in science does not mean that a certain poker playing teacher on this site is not a good science teacher.

Edit (addition):

Last I heard Ohio was offering incentives to anybody who has a science or math related degree to come in and teach. Unfortunately anybody who gets a degree in those subject areas want more money than what the teachers are paid. Why take a job that starts at $25-$30K a year when you can get paid $50K?

I don't live in Ohio, thus I care more about the poker.

mlb Wrote:Totally ridiculous comment to start out the post. Just because Ohio in general is not doing well in science does not mean that a certain poker playing teacher on this site is not a good science teacher.

I never stated that.

Quote:Edit (addition):

Last I heard Ohio was offering incentives to anybody who has a science or math related degree to come in and teach. Unfortunately anybody who gets a degree in those subject areas want more money than what the teachers are paid. Why take a job that starts at $25-$30K a year when you can get paid $50K?

If salaries are really that low, then Ohio is in big trouble. I have a friend who moved back to AZ and is teaching HS. He's at a private school b/c he isn't certified to teach yet (he has 2 years to get certified). Anyway, he makes significantly more than $30K/year, and will get more w/ certification. He also got paid well over $50K/year in industry...even in jobs that weren't top industrial jobs.

fsquid Wrote:I don't live in Ohio, thus I care more about the poker.

And who can blame you? ;-)

DrTorch Wrote:I never stated that.

You sure seemed to imply it. It was a shot at Mach that should not have been there.

Quote:If salaries are really that low, then Ohio is in big trouble. I have a friend who moved back to AZ and is teaching HS. He's at a private school b/c he isn't certified to teach yet (he has 2 years to get certified). Anyway, he makes significantly more than $30K/year, and will get more w/ certification. He also got paid well over $50K/year in industry...even in jobs that weren't top industrial jobs.

I'll speak from experience here... I have a family member who got her job as she was finishing up her masters degree (art history undergrad, teacher in grad, also received her certificate at the end of her masters program). She got hired in a city that may not pay top $, but is above average. Started at $30,000 a year.

Now you understand the viewpoint that many of us in Ohio have (specifically those of us with insight in to the real life situations of the teachers). Teachers are not overpaid here, and in many cases are significantly under paid. You can get decent money late in your career (I know teachers who make over $70K/yr) but that generally doesn't come until you have 25 years or more in, a masters (or more) plus a lot of extra hours in the graduate studies classroom. The new regulations also require them to get more hours of study every 3-4 years (whenever their certificate is up to renewal) which costs them even more money.

I will admit I don't know what other states pay for their teachers, nor am I familiar with how other states fund their schools, but I do know that Ohio is a screwed up state overall in terms of their schools (elementary all the way through college).

[quote="DrTorch"]About Ohio

mlb Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:I never stated that.

You sure seemed to imply it. It was a shot at Mach that should not have been there.

Quote:If salaries are really that low, then Ohio is in big trouble. I have a friend who moved back to AZ and is teaching HS. He's at a private school b/c he isn't certified to teach yet (he has 2 years to get certified). Anyway, he makes significantly more than $30K/year, and will get more w/ certification. He also got paid well over $50K/year in industry...even in jobs that weren't top industrial jobs.

I'll speak from experience here... I have a family member who got her job as she was finishing up her masters degree (art history undergrad, teacher in grad, also received her certificate at the end of her masters program). She got hired in a city that may not pay top $, but is above average. Started at $30,000 a year.

Teacher's salaries are affected by what courses they teach. I suspect that math/science teachers command a higher salary.

Quote:Now you understand the viewpoint that many of us in Ohio have (specifically those of us with insight in to the real life situations of the teachers). Teachers are not overpaid here, and in many cases are significantly under paid. You can get decent money late in your career (I know teachers who make over $70K/yr) but that generally doesn't come until you have 25 years or more in, a masters (or more) plus a lot of extra hours in the graduate studies classroom. The new regulations also require them to get more hours of study every 3-4 years (whenever their certificate is up to renewal) which costs them even more money.

Supply and demand. Alot of positions are "underpaid", with the rewards coming later in a person's career.

Quote: but I do know that Ohio is a screwed up state overall in terms of their schools (elementary all the way through college).

No, that's not a "known" that's an opinion. Do Ohio schools have more resources than when Paul Dunbar, Alfred Compton or Neil Armstrong were students? I'll bet they do.
Funding is not the problem, it's just an easy excuse.

mlb Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:I never stated that.

You sure seemed to imply it. It was a shot at Mach that should not have been there.

Why not? Mach tries to give as good as he gets. Not my fault his insults are dull and uninventive.

Torch:

Teachers' salaries are affected by the number of years of teaching service and level of collegiate hours they have completed.

I'm believe that a 1st grade starting teacher will make the same amount of money that a 1st year Math teacher will make. The pay scale isn't different for the various teaching disciplines - it's tied to the above.

Quote:I will admit I don't know what other states pay for their teachers, nor am I familiar with how other states fund their schools, but I do know that Ohio is a screwed up state overall in terms of their schools (elementary all the way through college).

Yeah, see what happens when you put women in charge of something mlb? Why the rush to have a female principal in every high school in America? Do they need to rethink that?

My niece and nephew said Colerain HS in Cincy was on its way to becoming a ghetto school. They stack the school board with libs and also have a female principal. They got rid of just one valedictorian and had 10 to make others "included". Now they are getting rid of valedictorian altogether because it's unfair to the 40% black population--they never make valedictorian. Yep, I can see why Ohio publics high schools are messed up. The New Agers are taking over.

Funding is messed up in Ohio, with alot of school levies that fail. The school levies are so messed up in how they distribute money, funding everything in an all or nothing vote. People usually don't vote "yes" for school levies, either; the only reason we had a music and art program at Walnut Hills, a public high school, was because of our parents raising the money. All money for the programs were cut, because the school levy failed. Probably because one part of the levy had to deal with snow removal, and everyone voted it down because they thought it estimated too much for salt.

A friend of mine wanted to teach in Cininnati Public Schools like his parents, but new jobs are hard to come buy. He had to move to St Louis because he wanted to teach; he taught out in Cleves for a year, but I think he found that to be too depressing. And somehow there are still old senial teachers in the system, who you'll never understand how they ever get a renewal.

Endzone2 Wrote:Yeah, see what happens when you put women in charge of something mlb? Why the rush to have a female principal in every high school in America? Do they need to rethink that?

This discussion has nothing to do with being a male or female. The article was written by the President of Ohio State University, not the head of the state board of education.

Quote:They stack the school board with libs and also have a female principal.

School boards are elected, complain about who is voting them in.

Quote:They got rid of just one valedictorian and had 10 to make others "included". Now they are getting rid of valedictorian altogether because it's unfair to the 40% black population--they never make valedictorian. Yep, I can see why Ohio publics high schools are messed up. The New Agers are taking over.

I don't know enough about the situation in Colerain Township to know what truly is going on, but I know you always oversimplify issues. For you it is always sex, race, or religion when it is never that simple.

Ohio schools are screwed up because of the people who have been in the state congress for the past 5 years. The state supreme court ruled the current funding system was illegal years ago but they congress still has done nothing about it.

Dr Torch Wrote:Teacher's salaries are affected by what courses they teach. I suspect that math/science teachers command a higher salary.

Not in Ohio. All are paid at the same rate, as mentioned above. It is all based on experience and education level, not specific courses taught.

In terms of overall funding, last I saw Ohio was one in the bottom half of funding to education. In higher education Ohio is in the top 5 for overall price (as in one of the 5 most expensive states). In my opinion Ohio needs to rethink its entire budget. Want to keep the high tech people around? A. Lower tuition. B. Invest in more "hip" type places for young people to enjoy themselves. Boston, NYC, Atlanta, Charlote, etc., all have districts for the 20-somethings to go and hang out. Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland are lacking in this type of situation, thus not offering things of interest to the younger populations of those cities.

Are Ohio schools funded like the Robinhood method here? Rich districts like Lake Highlands, Dallas have to give to poor districts like Brownsville? This law was definitely the result of liberal persuasion.

A teacher friend of mine at Southlake Carroll Elementary (she teaches science) makes about 42K/year. She started out about 12 years ago making 23K/year in a little podunk school (elementary) in Boyd, TX.

Endzone2 Wrote:Are Ohio schools funded like the Robinhood method here? Rich districts like Lake Highlands, Dallas have to give to poor districts like Brownsville? This law was definitely the result of liberal persuasion.

A teacher friend of mine at Southlake Carroll Elementary (she teaches science) makes about 42K/year. She started out about 12 years ago making 23K/year in a little podunk school (elementary) in Boyd, TX.

In a way, I believe it is. I believe that some of the big districts like Cincinnati, Columbus, etc., get more state money per capita than some of the suburban schools. I could be wrong, however.

A few years back the schools rural Ohio were suing due to their share not being enough, if I remember correctly. I believe that was when the Ohio system was deemed unconstitutional but the state congress has not yet done anything about it.

EZ2 -

No robinhood funding in Ohio, in fact when the Ohio Supreme Court found Ohio's funding method unconstitututional that was the overriding reason.....no take from the rich & give to the poor. The worst funded schools in Ohio are generally the rural ones in the poorer areas of the state - not the big city schools.

Female Principals don't have anything to do with school failures - stop trying to drum up something that isn't there. IMO, school problems got much worse when corporal punishment was done away with. Now days, what's the punishment.....suspension from school - most in that catagory don't want to be there anyway.

As was stated above - if you are a science or math major, why teach for 30K when you can get a job elsewhere for 50K.

Crebman Wrote:EZ2 -

No robinhood funding in Ohio, in fact when the Ohio Supreme Court found Ohio's funding method unconstitututional that was the overriding reason.....no take from the rich & give to the poor. The worst funded schools in Ohio are generally the rural ones in the poorer areas of the state - not the big city schools.

Female Principals don't have anything to do with school failures - stop trying to drum up something that isn't there. IMO, school problems got much worse when corporal punishment was done away with. Now days, what's the punishment.....suspension from school - most in that catagory don't want to be there anyway.

As was stated above - if you are a science or math major, why teach for 30K when you can get a job elsewhere for 50K.

I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system. What's really breaking the schools down here is a huge influx of Mexicans (even if they're illegal they have a right to attend) that aren't paying any taxes.

I disagree about female principals. I think men are much more authoritarian and not all wraped up in the emotional stuff like women are. Women don't like conflict--unless they're real *******. So a man is much better suited to the position of principal. Were you afraid of being disciplined by your mom growing up? I wasn't, but I sure was afraid of my old man. Our public schools have become way too feminized and there seems to be less rule of law. You have to wonder why parents even let their kids go to public schools knowing the lawlessness that exist and that administrators aren't going to do anything except send kids home for a few days.

EZ2 -

Think of it this way. If a principal has his/her hands tied behind his/her back as far a discpline, what difference does it make if male or female. The students don't fear male teachers now like in earlier days because the threat of physical punishment is no longer there. I agree that 30 years ago, kids (usually boys) were more likely to fear a male, but not today.

Male or female principal - it doesn't really make any difference.

IMO, most school districts that are failing are not failing due to funding, there are usually a host of other more fundamental problems with those that live within the district. The problems normally start at home.

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system. What's really breaking the schools down here is a huge influx of Mexicans (even if they're illegal they have a right to attend) that aren't paying any taxes.

This should rank up on one EZ2's most ignorantly racist posts. Even if this were a real problem in Ohio these same Mexicans aren't voting on levies or school officials.

Crebman Wrote:EZ2 -

Think of it this way. If a principal has his/her hands tied behind his/her back as far a discpline, what difference does it make if male or female. The students don't fear male teachers now like in earlier days because the threat of physical punishment is no longer there. I agree that 30 years ago, kids (usually boys) were more likely to fear a male, but not today.

Male or female principal - it doesn't really make any difference.

IMO, most school districts that are failing are not failing due to funding, there are usually a host of other more fundamental problems with those that live within the district. The problems normally start at home.

Well I guess you're right if that's the case. I know I've said this before, but I thank God my high school days were in the early to mid 70's. And man did we ever have a great time in high school. I agree with that saying that the high school days are the best years of your life--at least in the early 70s. But, I'm 50 so I haven't lived it all yet.