Fanatical Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system. What's really breaking the schools down here is a huge influx of Mexicans (even if they're illegal they have a right to attend) that aren't paying any taxes.

This should rank up on one EZ2's most ignorantly racist posts. Even if this were a real problem in Ohio these same Mexicans aren't voting on levies or school officials.

Can somebody help me understand what fanatical means?

Endzone2 Wrote:Can somebody help me understand what fanatical means?

Anyone with an IQ of 50 can deduct what it means. Maybe that's your problem.

Fanatical Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system. What's really breaking the schools down here is a huge influx of Mexicans (even if they're illegal they have a right to attend) that aren't paying any taxes.

This should rank up on one EZ2's most ignorantly racist posts. Even if this were a real problem in Ohio these same Mexicans aren't voting on levies or school officials.

I think what EZ2 was referring to was the system used in Texas (Robinhood) where richer school districts are forced to send their tax money to poorer school districts. And I think part 2 was that Texas also allows illegal immigrants to go to public school for free.

These are really two different issues, but if you combine them together, you can blame all Hispanics and look like a racist.

Endzone2 Wrote:Well I guess you're right if that's the case. I know I've said this before, but I thank God my high school days were in the early to mid 70's. And man did we ever have a great time in high school. I agree with that saying that the high school days are the best years of your life--at least in the early 70s. But, I'm 50 so I haven't lived it all yet.

I went to HS in the mid-1990's, I had a great time and got a great education. I have cousins in HS now and they seem to be having a great time and I know they are getting a great education. This is in suburban Dayton, Ohio... someway or another they all seem to be able to deal with it. Oh, and by the way, in my HS (and where my cousins go) there are now more blacks than ever, yet there have been no issues because they have parents who care! Test scores are up, fights are no more often than they used to be, no more crime than there ever has been... Amazing what can happen when you give someone a chance, EZ2, instead of just stereotyping a race like you do every minute of the day.

I'd like to see how Endzone Duke competes at A.R. Johnson or Davison in Augusta. Both magnet high schools and both with a significant number of those "darkies" he detests so much. My guess? He'd fall flat on his ass.

The problem is a lack of parenting, period. When parents are involved, the kid thrives. When they don't, the kid thinks that school is unimportant.

fsquid Wrote:The problem is a lack of parenting, period. When parents are involved, the kid thrives. When they don't, the kid thinks that school is unimportant.

No doubt parenting is important (probably the most important), but there are problems with the schools as well. The levy problem discussed above is a major one.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:The problem is a lack of parenting, period. When parents are involved, the kid thrives. When they don't, the kid thinks that school is unimportant.

No doubt parenting is important (probably the most important), but there are problems with the schools as well. The levy problem discussed above is a major one.

True. Funding will always be an issue for public schools, in my opinion. Many shortcomings that come from lack of funds can be made up by having good parents at home. Of course, most good parents don't want their kids in a crappy school district and will either move to a different district or send their kids to private school. I know I wouldn't send my kids to Dayton Public Schools, Cincinnati Public Schools, etc., because I don't trust those districts. At the same time, the suburban schools are great around both cities for the most part and I wouldn't blink an eye about sending my kid to those districts.

Crebman Wrote:Torch:

Teachers' salaries are affected by the number of years of teaching service and level of collegiate hours they have completed.

I'm believe that a 1st grade starting teacher will make the same amount of money that a 1st year Math teacher will make. The pay scale isn't different for the various teaching disciplines - it's tied to the above.

I thought many states had programs to lure science/math professionals into teaching. And they offered higher salaries...at least compared to what a fresh out might make.

But, that was just my impression.

mlb Wrote:In my opinion Ohio needs to rethink its entire budget. Want to keep the high tech people around? A. Lower tuition. B. Invest in more "hip" type places for young people to enjoy themselves. Boston, NYC, Atlanta, Charlote, etc., all have districts for the 20-somethings to go and hang out. Cincinnati, Columbus, and Cleveland are lacking in this type of situation, thus not offering things of interest to the younger populations of those cities.

What about Cleveland's Flats?

A prof from GMU (named Florida) has postulated the same thing as what you wrote. I'd propose it's a superficial and flawed analysis, more of a correlation than causation.

Hip 20-somethings go to where the jobs are...and carve out their own districts.

Moreover, hip 20-somethings don't bring an upturn to a local economy...jobs do. Even in Silicon Valley, it's the old money that sponsors the youthful innovation.

And, take a look at Columbus. It was growing and thriving as the rest of Ohio has whithered.

So Florida's thesis is all smoke-and-mirrors. But, alot of cities (including Cincinnati) have gotten on-board trying to use it as a lure. Stupid-is as stupid-does.

Ohio's problems start in the center: Columbus and Ohio State. Columbus sucks the state dry, of dollars and talent.
Ohio St is a 3rd rate university w/ a bloated budget. It's fat and lazy and provides little innovation, and definitely a horrendous ROI. The administration purpoesly goes out of its way to do harm to the other state universities.

Ohio needs to lean out Ohio St, demand more results for fewer dollars. It needs to invest in UCincy, Miami U, and come up w/ a clever plan for investing in Kent St/Cleveland area. Those are the highest priorities although eventually it needs to assist Ohio U, Toledo and Akron.

It also needs to revise its tax code. It's one of the worst in the country. It is one of the most expensive for business (that doesn't get much attention, although they did revise it a couple of years ago) however, there are all sorts of ways around it w/ abatements. So really you get the worst of all possible worlds:
A high tax code that deters new business from locating or starting there
AND
Low receipts b/c the ones that do locate there have figured out the system so they don't pay those taxes!

As for teachers, having a few that actually know what they're talking about wouldn't hurt.

Trendy neighborhoods and nightclubs won't solve Ohio's problems. And the suggestions made by the committee that wrote this article are mostly window-dressing that make them look important.

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system.

They are headed that way. That's what Strickland's proposals are about, and his excuse is the flawed Ohio Supreme Court decision from the 1990s. School funding and school performance are not correlated.

Look at schools who have had an influx of money and compare them before the influx. A school in Ottawa County called Oak Harbor is an excellent example. Before Davis Besse they actually had to shut the school down in April because they didn't have enough money in the treasury to pay teacher's for the rest of the year. Twenty years later the school is producing fabulous graduates. Ivy League kids. National Merit Scholars. For you to sit back on your high horse and say there is no corellation between funding and success is disingenious at best. Same SES of kids. Same demographic. Far different results for the kids who attend the school. In Ohio, you have your have's and have-not's and here's something that might surprise you Torchy. I don't have an answer to the problem. How can you tell someone from Putnam Cty. to pool their money into a state fund when they pay their teacher's an average of 38,000 a year. While Cleveland Public will pay a janitor 70,000 a year. (Putnam Cty schools are excellent btw). I think we have to determine a basic level of funding and make sure it goes directly to the kid's education. Administrators take a healthy chunk out of a school's budget. Just my two cents. ((BTW thanks mlb.. Your parents have done an excellent job!!!!! I try not to take things personally, it comes with a public job. You could never coach if you had as thin of skin as Torch.)) (((An opportunity may come my way.... If it pans out like I think it might.... I won't be on here from May through Nov. I should know within a couple of weeks.)))

Machiavelli Wrote:Look at schools who have had an influx of money and compare them before the influx. A school in Ottawa County called Oak Harbor is an excellent example. Before Davis Besse they actually had to shut the school down in April because they didn't have enough money in the treasury to pay teacher's for the rest of the year. Twenty years later the school is producing fabulous graduates. Ivy League kids. National Merit Scholars. For you to sit back on your high horse and say there is no corellation between funding and success is disingenious at best.

Some people would call it factual. Instead of citing your anecdotal evidence, you should look at real evidence.

Once again someone who doesn't understand science is trying to teach it.

BTW, I know of Oak Harbor. We competed against them when I was in HS. It was an affluent suburb then, and remains that today. I don't know about their budget woes in a particular year, but I do know that it was a community with people who strive to perform well. Again, the outside evidence indicates that it's more the parents and their influence rather than a specific budget.

Compare
http://www.portclintonnewsherald.com/com...arbor.html
with
http://www.odod.state.oh.us/research/FIL...230002.pdf

Quote: In Ohio, you have your have's and have-not's and here's something that might surprise you Torchy. I don't have an answer to the problem.

Wow, that's quite an admission. Maybe you'll actually listen to someone who does have answers. It's an example where you can learn how science is done.

Quote: You could never coach if you had as thin of skin as Torch.

Aren't you the one who blew up on this thread?

http://www.ncaabbs.com/forums/ncaa/phpbb...hp?t=22249
lmfao

Affluent suburb???????? What of Genoa???????????????? Stop, just stop!!! It's totally agrarian.

Grew up near Oak Harbor huh? Now this is getting wierd. I competed against them in high school too. Coach Quiz has a great program. I suspect you competed against their third chair trumpet player at half time..... Just My guess........

My wife's from Genoa. Oak Harbor is not affluent. My understanding of why they have all the money for the school is because of Davis-Besse in their backyard.

DrTorch Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system.

They are headed that way. That's what Strickland's proposals are about, and his excuse is the flawed Ohio Supreme Court decision from the 1990s. School funding and school performance are not correlated.

In Texas, the "Robin Hood" method of funding schools was deemed unconstitutional. As far as i know, it is no longer used here.

uhmump95 Wrote:

DrTorch Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I have to give Ohio credit then for not using a robinhood system.

They are headed that way. That's what Strickland's proposals are about, and his excuse is the flawed Ohio Supreme Court decision from the 1990s. School funding and school performance are not correlated.

In Texas, the "Robin Hood" method of funding schools was deemed unconstitutional. As far as i know, it is no longer used here.

Robinhood is alive and well in Texas.

Small world huh??????? I can't believe some of the things Torch types. The guy is totally delusional. I went to Lakota.

Machiavelli Wrote:Small world huh??????? I can't believe some of the things Torch types. The guy is totally delusional.

Small world indeed. I know someone JUST like that.