The cult members of Islam understand only one thing and that is power. We drove their sorry arses back to Mecca a thousand years ago and we can do it again.
Europe will once again be a battle ground as the E.U. countries there have completely screwed themselves with their immigration policy. GrayBeard you have voiced concern over the decline of the dollar and to that I say what will replace it?? The Euro?? It might be having a nice run now but it is artificially inflated. The European economy is in the tank and when countries like Germany become 50% Muslim in 30-40yrs do you really think Muslims will become great capitalist??
Across Europe they will be dealing with radical Islam for years to come and it will only hurt their economies.
There are hundreds of thousands of muslims lined up in Europe that profess the same opinion as this dip ****.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maHSOB2RFm4

you might want to look at Germany's immigration policy again, it's a bit tougher than our own.

fsquid Wrote:you might want to look at Germany's immigration policy again, it's a bit tougher than our own.

Might be tougher but the end result is they have a 0% population growth and rely on immigration for growth. I have friends and family in Munich, Dresden and Wuerzburg. I see it more and more each time I visit. The fact that the Muslim population has a chance to equal the German population in this century is troubling to most Germans and even gets the Neo-Nazis fired up.
I will take Catholic Mexican immigrants any day over what the Europeans get. The French have an even bigger problem and the British as open as they are now see what a problem that muslims can be.

Quote:The fact that the Muslim population has a chance to equal the German population in this century is troubling to most Germans and even gets the Neo-Nazis fired up.

You have a link to this? There is a large Turk population in Berlin, but other than that, I don't know where you are getting your info from. I have family in Munchen and they only ***** about the Turks.

fsquid Wrote:

Quote:The fact that the Muslim population has a chance to equal the German population in this century is troubling to most Germans and even gets the Neo-Nazis fired up.

You have a link to this? There is a large Turk population in Berlin, but other than that, I don't know where you are getting your info from. I have family in Munchen and they only ***** about the Turks.

Faux news.

fsquid Wrote:

Quote:The fact that the Muslim population has a chance to equal the German population in this century is troubling to most Germans and even gets the Neo-Nazis fired up.

You have a link to this? There is a large Turk population in Berlin, but other than that, I don't know where you are getting your info from. I have family in Munchen and they only ***** about the Turks.

Surprised your family in Munchen has not talked to you about it. I hear about it all the time. I actually don't have a big problem with the Turks as I lived in Turkey for 3yrs. Most Turks are fairly moderate compared to immigrants of other Muslim States. I think France and Britain face a more eminent threat from their immigration policy. What the average American does not comprehend is how the Muslim population in Europe has altered their political stances on issues in the Middle East from the Arab/Israeli conflict to the war in Iraq. The have a powerful minority vote in their countries that they have to listen to when forming their Middle East policy and it is no wonder that it has become more and more anti-Israeli.

The even bigger irony is that Nazi Germany helped Muslim states develop their anti-Jew mentality during WWII and now Germany is increasingly becoming a Muslim state.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,2144...44,00.html

http://www.stanfordreview.org/Archive/Vo...irs3.shtml

http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2006/nov/06110903.html

I'd rather talk to them about the Bundesliga anyways, but Munchen is a lot different than Berlin is so our relatives can have different views on this. I'll agree that France is going to have a problem. In your links, it says a small group is sounding this warning in Germany, so I wouldn't be worried yet, but they could be right. Thanks for the info!

RobertN Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:

Quote:The fact that the Muslim population has a chance to equal the German population in this century is troubling to most Germans and even gets the Neo-Nazis fired up.

You have a link to this? There is a large Turk population in Berlin, but other than that, I don't know where you are getting your info from. I have family in Munchen and they only ***** about the Turks.

Faux news.

RoberN only reads Al Jazeera. So unless it's from there it's not true.

fsquid Wrote:I'd rather talk to them about the Bundesliga anyways, but Munchen is a lot different than Berlin is so our relatives can have different views on this. I'll agree that France is going to have a problem. In your links, it says a small group is sounding this warning in Germany, so I wouldn't be worried yet, but they could be right. Thanks for the info!

The immigration issue in Europe is a double edged sword. By and large for many Muslim who move to Europe they adapt well to the freedom and capitalism of Europe. They are more likely to become moderate and distance themselves from radical Islam.
It is the young and unemployed in Europe that are easy targets for the radical clerics inside the mosque teaching hate and anti western dogma.
The problem is Europe has a big unemployment problem and at the bottom of the pecking order is young muslims.
The clerics know this and they prey on this group of Muslims to fill their ranks with Islamist. My experience in Germany is that there has always been an underlying Xenophobia there. I had relatives, especially those in Dresden who thought Hitler was not so bad so if Muslim immigration or radical Islam becomes a serious problem I think you could see Germany boil over in revolt.

Shorebuc,

You admit that the European countries have unemployment issues and these hit the Muslims (especially the young and impressionable) the hardest. Don't these people have a right to be angry if they are being discriminated against? What is your solution? Send them back to the Middle East.....

uhmump95 Wrote:Shorebuc,

You admit that the European countries have unemployment issues and these hit the Muslims (especially the young and impressionable) the hardest. Don't these people have a right to be angry if they are being discriminated against? What is your solution? Send them back to the Middle East.....

Are they being discriminated against or is it a training and educational thing? You are awful quick to jump to discrimination.

uhmump95 Wrote:Shorebuc,

You admit that the European countries have unemployment issues and these hit the Muslims (especially the young and impressionable) the hardest. Don't these people have a right to be angry if they are being discriminated against? What is your solution? Send them back to the Middle East.....

Angry....yes but it does not give them a right to go off and start bombing buses, trains or murdering innocent civilians.
Look at the United States and our history. We have had all kinds of riots by immigrant groups during hard times and unemployment but they did not start blowing things up.
The muslims in Europe went there for an opportunity to better their lives and even with high unemployment, most of their situations are much better then they would be in the Middle East. If you travel the Middle East you will see abject poverty with pockets of great wealth.
The poverty in the Middle East is compounded by illiteracy and in the areas with the highest illiteracy you will find the most radical forms of Islam.
So I would not send the Muslims in Europe back but I would arrest those teaching hate and those planning terrorism and deport them. I would also not allow for their religious law to over rule the law of the land and courts of the European country they now live in.

I also don't think the Muslims are being discriminated against. Europe represents one of the most highly educated populations in the world. Many muslims did not enjoy the same education so when the economy turns south, their jobs are the first to go.
It is up to them as it is up to any individual to make yourself more marketable and therefore less vulnerable in an economic down cycle.
One of the reasons they love Europe is the socialist system that takes care of them so it is a bit of a stretch for them to portray themselves as victims in all of this.

uhmump95 Wrote:Shorebuc,

You admit that the European countries have unemployment issues and these hit the Muslims (especially the young and impressionable) the hardest. Don't these people have a right to be angry if they are being discriminated against? What is your solution? Send them back to the Middle East.....

Employment for everyone in Europe is an issue, not just for muslims.

Not every problem a person encounters is due to discrimination, well except for you of course.

I though the riots that were in France were because of France's discriminatory hiring practices.

uhmump95 Wrote:I though the riots that were in France were because of France's discriminatory hiring practices.

I thought the riots were because France went from 8 to 7 weeks of paid vacation??

ShoreBuc Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:I though the riots that were in France were because of France's discriminatory hiring practices.

I thought the riots were because France went from 8 to 7 weeks of paid vacation??

The riots were because socialism is a failed system. The people rioted because they felt the government wasn't taking care of them the way it takes care of others. They felt cut off from jobs and housing (things you earn in a capitalistic society). Race is a factor but the root of the problem lies within the system of government France employs.

The common factor of the riots were the people were poor, not muslim.

Does socialism fail because it is inherently anticapitalistic or does it fail because the countries that are socialist are also not capitalistic?

I ask this because when you look at China, at least on the surface they are making capitalism work with their socialistic policies.

uhmump95 Wrote:Does socialism fail because it is inherently anticapitalistic or does it fail because the countries that are socialist are also not capitalistic?

I ask this because when you look at China, at least on the surface they are making capitalism work with their socialistic policies.

True Socialism fails because it rewards sloth, and punishes success.

uhmump95 Wrote:Does socialism fail because it is inherently anticapitalistic or does it fail because the countries that are socialist are also not capitalistic?

I ask this because when you look at China, at least on the surface they are making capitalism work with their socialistic policies.

China is a poor example because much of china has not reached the 19th Century. There are parts of China that are technologically booming, but there is a lot of china that has no idea what technology is.

uhmump95 Wrote:Does socialism fail because it is inherently anticapitalistic or does it fail because the countries that are socialist are also not capitalistic?

I ask this because when you look at China, at least on the surface they are making capitalism work with their socialistic policies.

China is actually communist politically, more capitalistic economically however the government of china controls what businesses are allowed into the country.

Socialism fails because, as Kev said, it rewards laziness. There's no incentive to work, to research, to develop or grow. The government says, we'll take care of you, so why should a person work hard? However it should be noted there are various ranges of socialism.

In any case the basic premise of the even distribution of wealth is the flaw in socialistic thought. Government can't provide for the people without businesses and entrepreneurship (sp?). It's based on the idea that all will work towards the collective good so that all may benefit. We all know that doesn't work because many people are lazy.

Also, socialism relies on government to decide what businesses and goods the country should produce. Obviously a small group of people can never out do the free marketplace of ideas. People start businesses because they see a need, government rarely sees the need and if they do they seldom understand the nature of it.