uhmump95 Wrote:Bullsh!t!!! When you are angry and you are not filtering your words, you are saying exactly what you DO mean. Kramer is a racist, just like Mel Gibson. Plus If you have used racial slurs at a black person just because you are angry then you are racist or bigoted or whatever term helps you sleep at night as well.

Yeah, and my sister is really a *****. She's really a slut. My mother is really a *****. My father is really a dick. My wife is really a *****.

You know, since I said it, it must be true and it must be truly how I feel.

I'm not defending Richardson. Like I stated before, he may BE a racist. However, he may have used those terms because he KNEW it would anger those that angered him. It's not like it's a new term or some super-secret term that only a select few know. It's also not a secret that it's a term that can commonly be offensive.

RebelKev Wrote:Yeah, and my sister is really a *****. She's really a slut. My mother is really a *****. My father is really a dick. My wife is really a *****.

You know, since I said it, it must be true and it must be truly how I feel.

Come on Kev that is not what I meant and you know it.

How about this scenario:

Your wife cheats on you and you tell her that you forgive her. Even though in the back of your mind you still harbor feeling of pain, betrayal and such. In a normal conversation, you are not going to call her a no good slut b!tch. But if she pisses you off, you would drop that in an instant and it would be how you feel about her in a deeper level.

Racism is the same way. Currently you just can't drop n-bombs and other slurs at the drop of a hat. So now it is vogue to drop them because you are angry or intoxicated because you really didn't mean or don't think that way. Wrong you do think that way or you never would have said it in the first place.

Endzone2 Wrote:All I said was it's going to take more than words to declare someone a damn racist. Words mean nothing.

I get so tired of hearing this bullsh*t. You go and tell that to an older black woman who had to drink from a separate water fountain; go and tell that to some twentysomething black kid who had to grow up around white kids calling him a "n*gger;" go and tell that to the families of the poor, black men who were involved in the Tuskegee Syphilis Study; go and tell that to Emmett Till's family; go and tell that to Coretta Scott King; go and tell that to the families of Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner; go and tell that to Rodney King; go and tell that to the x-amount of young black men & women who've been racially profiled; go and tell that to the x-amount of middle easterners who've been racially profiled; go and tell that to Matthew Shephard's mom; go and tell it to survivors of the holocaust; go and tell that to the millions of people, white, black, latino, asian, european, who tire of apathetic, lassiez-faire excuses for ignorant, insensitive, and offensive comments. Just words my ass.

It must be nice to be able to live your life where you can just casually brush-off hearing someone call someone else a "n*gger," "sp*c," "f*ggot," "k*ke," "ch*nk," ad nauseum. But for many, many, many people they are not "just words" as so many seem to so simplistically put it. They are intentional, pointed, insulting, and offensive reminders of how some people have been murdered, raped, gassed, lynched, infected, had their churches burned down, personal lives delved into, disrespected, and generally made to feel worse than a piece of sh*t.

uhmump95 Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:We all say things that we don't mean when we are angry.

Bullsh!t!!! When you are angry and you are not filtering your words, you are saying exactly what you DO mean. Kramer is a racist, just like Mel Gibson. Plus If you have used racial slurs at a black person just because you are angry then you are racist or bigoted or whatever term helps you sleep at night as well.

I disagree. I think Kev is right with the"button pushing." You will say anything in a heated argument to elicit a response, especially if you think you are losing the argument on facts go for the emotional button. If someone calls me a crack a$$ cracker in an argument the argument is going to go in a new direction. It doesn't meant they are a racist for saying that alone, but they MAY be one anyway, but you can't determine that from a drunken tirade like Gibson.

Where all the white women at?

uhmump95 Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I just want to have the freedom to call a black guy that without it costing me my job or getting banned from a sports board--just like black guys do.

Okay after you get the right to call me the n word(back), then what will make you happy?

You want to be able to lynch me for whistling at white women or burn crosses in my yard when I move into your lilly white neighborhood or keep me from eating at white onl restaurants.

We have discussed this before. But I will go back to the old stand by. It is just like you picking on your brother or sister, but when someone outside the family does the same thing it is inappropriate.

Good grief uhmump95 knock off with the "I'm just a poor little ****** and the white man has done all this bad stuff to me" kind of crap will you?

But, to answer your questions. No, I don't want to lynch you. No, I don't want to burn a cross in your yard, and you're welcome here at the weekly hotel (with all the other brothers) in Kent, WA anytime you want to come.

But, yes, I would like to be able to call you a "dumb @zz ******" if you really piss me off.

Are there any blacks out there that are willing to take responsibility for their own lives and quit blaming everything on racism if things don't go their way?

niuhuskie84 Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:All I said was it's going to take more than words to declare someone a damn racist. Words mean nothing.

I get so tired of hearing this bullsh*t. You go and tell that to an older black woman who had to drink from a separate water fountain; go and tell that to some twentysomething black kid who had to grow up around white kids calling him a "n*gger;" go and tell that to the families of the poor, black men who were involved in the Tuskegee Syphilis Study; go and tell that to Emmett Till's family; go and tell that to Coretta Scott King; go and tell that to the families of Andrew Goodman, James Chaney, and Michael Schwerner; go and tell that to Rodney King; go and tell that to the x-amount of young black men & women who've been racially profiled; go and tell that to the x-amount of middle easterners who've been racially profiled; go and tell that to Matthew Shephard's mom; go and tell it to survivors of the holocaust; go and tell that to the millions of people, white, black, latino, asian, european, who tire of apathetic, lassiez-faire excuses for ignorant, insensitive, and offensive comments. Just words my ass.

It must be nice to be able to live your life where you can just casually brush-off hearing someone call someone else a "n*gger," "sp*c," "f*ggot," "k*ke," "ch*nk," ad nauseum. But for many, many, many people they are not "just words" as so many seem to so simplistically put it. They are intentional, pointed, insulting, and offensive reminders of how some people have been murdered, raped, gassed, lynched, infected, had their churches burned down, personal lives delved into, disrespected, and generally made to feel worse than a piece of sh*t.

Speaking of water fountains, you reminded me of something. When I was working my way through college (1982 or so) I was working at this place in Ft. Worth called Trussway Barnes. They made roof trusses. There was this real nasty water fountain (and I mean nasty) haning on the wall. There weren't many people working 2nd shift (4 go 10) when I was there, but somebody had taken a large black magic market and wrote on the front of the water fountain "Blacks Only". Haha. It was hillarious. It stayed there for a couple of months. I think the black guys I worked with thought it was funny too. I never asked them about it though.

Endzone2 Wrote:Speaking of water fountains, you reminded me of something. When I was working my way through college (1982 or so) I was working at this place in Ft. Worth called Trussway Barnes. They made roof trusses. There was this real nasty water fountain (and I mean nasty) haning on the wall. There weren't many people working 2nd shift (4 go 10) when I was there, but somebody had taken a large black magic market and wrote on the front of the water fountain "Blacks Only". Haha. It was hillarious. It stayed there for a couple of months. I think the black guys I worked with thought it was funny too. I never asked them about it though.

Can you blink real fast? That's as close as you are to getting banned.

....and this isn't like any other site you've been banned from.....which I'm sure is common.

The only thing that bothers me is the double standard.

Yeah, we've had and have all sorts of double standards in the country and this world. I never liked any of them. Don't much care for this one.

It doesn't mean I want to use racial slurs against anybody else, I just don't want them used against me, especially those that have the stamp of approval on them, like honky. It is perfectly acceptable for anyone, black or white, to use the H-word in any public setting. Why is that?

How about if nobody uses any racial slurs, period? Sounds fair to me.

Sure thing, though, someone will find that my proposal that we all treat each other with respect is a racist proposal. Go figure.

Here's the thing...

If I am called a name, I can react in a variety of ways, I probably won't assault the person. I'll look at them sideways and laugh at them.

If I call someone else a name, that person may take offense and administer a beat down upon me.

A court will uphold the speech, but not the assault. So by all means use whatever terms you wish when referring to other people, but just be prepared to take someone to court when they break your face. If it makes you feel better, you'll probably win in court. You can celebrate by eating a steak, through a straw.

I don't think there is a double standard as far as the law is concerned. It's just that one group won't take it as lightly as others do.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:I don't think there is a double standard as far as the law is concerned.

The law, mostly, is without double standard, but the enforcement of the law is. Public custom is also a double standard.

Micheal Richards is catching hell. I have no problem with that. But if a black comedian had gone off on a white patron like that, there wouldn't even be a story. double standard.

To use your own example, if a black man were to beat up a white man for calling him a name, it would be simple misdemeanor assault under the law. But reverse the races, and we have a hate crime felony. They should be the same.

Endzone2 Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I just want to have the freedom to call a black guy that without it costing me my job or getting banned from a sports board--just like black guys do.

Okay after you get the right to call me the n word(back), then what will make you happy?

You want to be able to lynch me for whistling at white women or burn crosses in my yard when I move into your lilly white neighborhood or keep me from eating at white onl restaurants.

We have discussed this before. But I will go back to the old stand by. It is just like you picking on your brother or sister, but when someone outside the family does the same thing it is inappropriate.

Good grief uhmump95 knock off with the "I'm just a poor little ****** and the white man has done all this bad stuff to me" kind of crap will you?

But, to answer your questions. No, I don't want to lynch you. No, I don't want to burn a cross in your yard, and you're welcome here at the weekly hotel (with all the other brothers) in Kent, WA anytime you want to come.

But, yes, I would like to be able to call you a "dumb @zz ******" if you really piss me off.

Are there any blacks out there that are willing to take responsibility for their own lives and quit blaming everything on racism if things don't go their way?

EZ

Once again I am trying to have discussion with you. You want to be able to legally call me a racist name in your work place. Well I want to know what other racist act towards blacks that you would condone.

Now if you have black people calling you "cracker", "pillsbury" or "honky" at work, you need to do what a black person would do and report their a$$.

OO:

I'll agree that hate crimes charges are brought up more against whites. But it seems to me that get a hate crime conviction is very difficult as you have to establish intent. I could be wrong, I'm just speculating on this.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:OO:

I'll agree that hate crimes charges are brought up more against whites. But it seems to me that get a hate crime conviction is very difficult as you have to establish intent. I could be wrong, I'm just speculating on this.

My point was that the exact same actions/similar words are treated differently by both law enforcement and the general public, based solely on the race(s) of the people involved. This is the basis for my statement about double standards. And I think we all should be the same. It doesn't matter how easy or difficult a hate crime conviction is. What matters is that not all people are treated the same, and the differences in treatment are race-based.

If someone here wants to argue that some people deserve a pass because of their race, so be it. I respectfully disagree. It is as wrong now as it was in Mississippi in 1960.

Well, you won't find me defending unequal treatment.

Here's some interesting stats anyway. Just a quick search, I'm sure there's more out there. These are counts of incidents, I'm not sure if that means convictions or just accusations.
2004 Hate Crimes
1995 Hate Crimes

The minority groups almost all have higher numbers of crimes against them. But it goes to show that both black and white are being identified as hate crimes.

It stands to reason that there would be more anti minority crime because there are more people to hate the minorities than there are people to hate the majority. Does that make sense?

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Well, you won't find me defending unequal treatment.

Here's some interesting stats anyway. Just a quick search, I'm sure there's more out there. These are counts of incidents, I'm not sure if that means convictions or just accusations.
2004 Hate Crimes
1995 Hate Crimes

The minority groups almost all have higher numbers of crimes against them. But it goes to show that both black and white are being identified as hate crimes.

It stands to reason that there would be more anti minority crime because there are more people to hate the minorities than there are people to hate the majority. Does that make sense?

On the surface, yes, but it is based on the assumption that both groups are exactly the same except for numbers. I doubt that assumption is true.

edit: I think the odds of a individual black person suffering a hate crime is greater, but I also think the liklihood of it being reported are greater. JMO.

As for the stats, we know (because we are told) that rape statistics, for example, are only the tip of the iceberg since many are not reported. I think (personal opinion) that black on white hate crimes are also less likely to be reported. It seems kind of wimpish to complain that besides beating someone up, they called him a honky. Probably get laughed at by the cops. And probably the DA would decline to prosecute that as a hate crime, especially if the black vote could decide the next election. But that is JMO.

I don't think there should be a hate crime enhancement. Murder is murder, and there are penalties for that. Assault is still assault, rape is still rape, vandalism is still vandalism. It's better to kill your wife for the insurance money than to kill your neighbor because you don't like his race? We already have laws against committing those crimes. The hate crime enhancement in effect says, murder is worse when you have a non-PC attitude or reason. Murder is murder. Period. When we get into prosecuting people for having bad opinions while they commit crimes, i think we are treading on shaky ground. What else can we add to the list of badthink? Holding up banks while hating the IRS? Shoplifting while preaching against Wal-mart's hiring practices? Speeding while being a Republican? Killing scabs during a strike? The slippery slope again...


.

Well I won't defend the hate crime legislation, but I'm not sure that it is underreported. And I don't think Cops will laugh at anyone who was a victim if the claim that racial slurs were throw at him or her while they were being assaulted. The victim may believe the reason they were being assaulted was due to their race, creed, or orientation, but in the end the prosecutors make the decision to charge hate crimes. The rol of the victim is to report what happened to them not decide what crimes were committed. The police record those accounts and then the lawyers sort out the crimes. Well in a perfect world, I guess.

I will agree that hate crimes are an emotional issue and I wouldn't surprise me to see prosecutors using it to swing votes their way, see the Duke Lacrosse thing from last year, but I would doubt that is the norm. Anyway, I just thought I'd throw those stats out there.

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:Well I won't defend the hate crime legislation, but I'm not sure that it is underreported. And I don't think Cops will laugh at anyone who was a victim if the claim that racial slurs were throw at him or her while they were being assaulted. The victim may believe the reason they were being assaulted was due to their race, creed, or orientation, but in the end the prosecutors make the decision to charge hate crimes. The rol of the victim is to report what happened to them not decide what crimes were committed. The police record those accounts and then the lawyers sort out the crimes. Well in a perfect world, I guess.

I will agree that hate crimes are an emotional issue and I wouldn't surprise me to see prosecutors using it to swing votes their way, see the Duke Lacrosse thing from last year, but I would doubt that is the norm. Anyway, I just thought I'd throw those stats out there.

I guess neither of us has convinced the other, but it was nice to be able to have a civil discussion on race and race matters without the words "racist" and "idiot" coming up from either side.

Have a good Thanksgiving!

Endzone2 Wrote:[quote="uhmump95"][quote="Endzone2"]





But, yes, I would like to be able to call you a "dumb @zz ******" if you really piss me off.

you have that freedom. but along with everything, you will reap what you sow. if you say a word that 99% of ppl who hear it think that its a racist word-then you will be considered a racist for saying it. thats fact. nothing will change that. if you want to be assocaited with it-go ahead.

uhmump95 Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:

uhmump95 Wrote:

Endzone2 Wrote:I just want to have the freedom to call a black guy that without it costing me my job or getting banned from a sports board--just like black guys do.

Okay after you get the right to call me the n word(back), then what will make you happy?

You want to be able to lynch me for whistling at white women or burn crosses in my yard when I move into your lilly white neighborhood or keep me from eating at white onl restaurants.

We have discussed this before. But I will go back to the old stand by. It is just like you picking on your brother or sister, but when someone outside the family does the same thing it is inappropriate.

Good grief uhmump95 knock off with the "I'm just a poor little ****** and the white man has done all this bad stuff to me" kind of crap will you?

But, to answer your questions. No, I don't want to lynch you. No, I don't want to burn a cross in your yard, and you're welcome here at the weekly hotel (with all the other brothers) in Kent, WA anytime you want to come.

But, yes, I would like to be able to call you a "dumb @zz ******" if you really piss me off.

Are there any blacks out there that are willing to take responsibility for their own lives and quit blaming everything on racism if things don't go their way?

EZ

Once again I am trying to have discussion with you. You want to be able to legally call me a racist name in your work place. Well I want to know what other racist act towards blacks that you would condone.

Now if you have black people calling you "cracker", "pillsbury" or "honky" at work, you need to do what a black person would do and report their a$$.

There is nothing illegal about a black calling me Pillsbury or Honky or Snowman. But, there shouldn't be anything illegal about me calling a black guy a dumb @ss ****** either. I've called black guys that, and I'm not a racist. The problem I have is that for some reason we go ballistic in our culture if you say anything negative about a black. Again, these people are babied and pampered and protected with privledges that whites don't enjoy. I'm sick and tired of special treatment for blacks--especially some stupid ******* I've met.

BTW, you've never answered my question that I asked you before. Are you a black guy?