or t................he RNC could be ju-jitsuing the Dems. They don't want the dirty stuff to come out.

At the end of the day I just want my side to keep the power and not over reach.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

wvucrazed Wrote:Ya think? Well I guess it depends on what the subpoenas uncover, doesn't it? You that confident that all is on the up and up with BushCo and his cronies? No worries that there *might* just be some problems waiting to unfold?

Yep. Here's why. Investigations like this are very complex. Combine that with the fact that we're already in Iraq. There's nothing moving forward about going back to why we went, especially since it has already been investigated by our House, our Senate and the British parliment. This will be bad PR for the dems. There will be no impeachment, no censure. The Clinton impeachment backfired on republicans, the same would happen to the dems.

Second, dems have control because they basically recruited people who are republicans in everything but name to run in the moderate/conservative districts. These folks are elected by people who don't like Iraq, but they don't hate the president with the vitrol that people like you do. And while you'll light a cig and pour a glass of wine for investigations, these folks won't like it. And their representatives can't be seen as supporting it or they'll be out in two years.

The majority of the electorate doesn't vote out of blind hatred like you wvu. They're sensible. And they voted for change. The dems have their chance to actually do something good. But most are like you, which is nothing short of spectacular for republicans.

There is a difference in the GOP impeachment effort against Clinton - Clinton was popular with the American public during that entire period, and he remains popular. Bush's ratings are in the mid-30's. You think that the general public is going to react negatively if the Dems go forward and work to uncover all of the problems that have been going on in the Bush administration? I think the vast majority of Americans will cheer this. That's one of the main reasons why the Dems were elected last night. Oversight.

All of this high and mighty self-righteousness about "blind hatred" is pretty amusing considering all of the loathing that comes from the right in the direction of Democrats. Mention Clinton to a Conservative and watch as his face gets red and steam starts eeking out of his ears. Have you ever listened to right-wing talk radio? I suspect you have. The hatred that spews over the airwaves for hours and hours and hours each day is pretty disgusting.

If you think the Dems succeeded last night fed by just blind hatred, well the joke is on you. You follow the Bush administration line pretty closely. Any disagreement, any questioning is unpatriotic, or "blind hatred", or obstructionist. People want answers, people want change, and people want oversight of the Bush administration.

But sure, there IS plenty of hate to go around on the side of the Dems, but what is the reason for it? Could it be 6 years of rule by a regime that was simply not interested in any opposing viewpoint? What is the cause of this highly polarized electorate? Look at your President.

Machiavelli Wrote:I'm cautiously optmistic for the next two years. Why??? who could of seen this coming 2 years ago. and I'm going to start another topic but Im not so sure Pelosi gets the speaker. Remember the tide started to turn on the Republicans with Murtha. I think he comes out of this as the speaker. Plus alot of the Democratic gains were in the Midwest. I was hoping the gal that called him a coward would of had her day, but she survived. Niner, has some good points. The Democrats won by being centrist. Let's hope they govern that way... btw I do think the center does want some answers with subpoena power on the how' and why's of Iraq.

Murtha will be majority leader. There is no way Pelosi doesn't become speaker. It's a foregone conclusion.

wvucrazed Wrote:You think that the general public is going to react negatively if the Dems go forward and work to uncover all of the problems that have been going on in the Bush administration? I think the vast majority of Americans will cheer this. That's one of the main reasons why the Dems were elected last night. Oversight.

Oversight, yes, witch hunt, no. And no way the dems can "let the supeanas fly" like you want and not be exposed as a partisan witch hunt, which they don't want. The majority of Americans will not cheer this.

Quote:All of this high and mighty self-righteousness about "blind hatred" is pretty amusing considering all of the loathing that comes from the right in the direction of Democrats.

It's not self-righteousness, it's a unrefutable fact. And the majority of Americans don't hate Bush like you wvu, and they don't want the same things you do.

Quote:Mention Clinton to a Conservative and watch as his face gets red and steam starts eeking out of his ears. Have you ever listened to right-wing talk radio? I suspect you have. The hatred that spews over the airwaves for hours and hours and hours each day is pretty disgusting.

1. I have listened to "right wing" radio before, but don't much anymore since I work for a living.
2. I'm a conservative and I don't hate Clinton. Never did. Kind of liked the guy personally, hard not to.

Quote:If you think the Dems succeeded last night fed by just blind hatred, well the joke is on you.

My guess is you realize there's no logic to your statements so you're just making sh!t up now. Where did I ever say or imply their success was fed by blind hatred? I didn't. And how could I think such a think when i've already said, more than once, that the majority of americans don't hate Bush the way you do? Try and keep up.

They succeeded because they ran candidates that are about as far away from you politically as you can get. If they'd run dems like you we'd have gained seats in the house, and they knew that.

Quote:You follow the Bush administration line pretty closely. Any disagreement, any questioning is unpatriotic, or "blind hatred", or obstructionist.

Nope. Disagreement is fine. I've never called it unpatriotic or blind hatred. I say you and those that think and debate like you are filled with blind hatred. You're not someone who just disagrees, you despise the president personally and as such you are incapable of disagreeing in a reasonable fashion, or even debating the issues. That fact is pretty evident since your last two statements are just making stuff up.

Quote:People want answers, people want change, and people want oversight of the Bush administration.

I don't disagree. But what they don't want is investigation after investigation and a partisan witch hunt. That is what you want wvu, and you're very, very far out of the mainstream.

Quote:But sure, there IS plenty of hate to go around on the side of the Dems, but what is the reason for it? Could it be 6 years of rule by a regime that was simply not interested in any opposing viewpoint? What is the cause of this highly polarized electorate? Look at your President.

I see, it's all Bush's fault you have blind hatred for him.

As far as not interested in an opposing viewpoint, pot, meet kettle.

He's your president to buddy boy, whether you like it or not.

Quote:2. I'm a conservative and I don't hate Clinton. Never did. Kind of liked the guy personally, hard not to.

Who are you and what have you done to niner!!!!!

rickheel Wrote:The Pubs have abandoned their principals and lost because of that IMHO. The dems did not offer anything attractive.

I don't know if they abandoned their principles, or just sat back and "strategized" for the next election. They clearly didn't get much done.

I understand the populace's reaction to them...too bad they didn't have viable candidates to turn to.

wvucrazed Wrote:Let me ask you, though: who do you think the KKK members tend to vote for these days? It ain't the Dems.

Really?
http://asp.usatoday.com/news/politicsele...&cn=1&tf=l

Quote:The Democrats have put up with unilateralism from the GOP for a long, long, long time. They have not even ATTEMPTED any kind of bipartisanship.

Give if a f'n break already. That horseshit may play well in the newspapers, but we're not all so gullible.

JTiger Wrote:The dems have taken the house and possibly the senate. Now the hard work begins. If the dems offer nothing but and I hate bush mantra, they will lose their seats as quickly as they gained.

Yup. And that could crush the DNC in the presidential elections.

Quote:Bush knows how wot work with dems, he did it in Texas.

He started out working well with them as president too, then they realized that he was looking good.

RebelKev Wrote:http://www.nasdaq.com/

????

fsquid Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:http://www.nasdaq.com/

????

We were talking about the market so I posted a link for people to reference.

RebelKev Wrote:

fsquid Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:http://www.nasdaq.com/

????

We were talking about the market so I posted a link for people to reference.

It's up which is actually surprising to me.

fsquid Wrote:It's up which is actually surprising to me.

There's still two months before they take office and Rangel tries to roll back all of those evil tax cuts.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

wvucrazed Wrote:You think that the general public is going to react negatively if the Dems go forward and work to uncover all of the problems that have been going on in the Bush administration? I think the vast majority of Americans will cheer this. That's one of the main reasons why the Dems were elected last night. Oversight.

Oversight, yes, witch hunt, no. And no way the dems can "let the supeanas fly" like you want and not be exposed as a partisan witch hunt, which they don't want. The majority of Americans will not cheer this.

Quote:All of this high and mighty self-righteousness about "blind hatred" is pretty amusing considering all of the loathing that comes from the right in the direction of Democrats.

It's not self-righteousness, it's a unrefutable fact. And the majority of Americans don't hate Bush like you wvu, and they don't want the same things you do.

Quote:Mention Clinton to a Conservative and watch as his face gets red and steam starts eeking out of his ears. Have you ever listened to right-wing talk radio? I suspect you have. The hatred that spews over the airwaves for hours and hours and hours each day is pretty disgusting.

1. I have listened to "right wing" radio before, but don't much anymore since I work for a living.
2. I'm a conservative and I don't hate Clinton. Never did. Kind of liked the guy personally, hard not to.

Quote:If you think the Dems succeeded last night fed by just blind hatred, well the joke is on you.

My guess is you realize there's no logic to your statements so you're just making sh!t up now. Where did I ever say or imply their success was fed by blind hatred? I didn't. And how could I think such a think when i've already said, more than once, that the majority of americans don't hate Bush the way you do? Try and keep up.

They succeeded because they ran candidates that are about as far away from you politically as you can get. If they'd run dems like you we'd have gained seats in the house, and they knew that.

Quote:You follow the Bush administration line pretty closely. Any disagreement, any questioning is unpatriotic, or "blind hatred", or obstructionist.

Nope. Disagreement is fine. I've never called it unpatriotic or blind hatred. I say you and those that think and debate like you are filled with blind hatred. You're not someone who just disagrees, you despise the president personally and as such you are incapable of disagreeing in a reasonable fashion, or even debating the issues. That fact is pretty evident since your last two statements are just making stuff up.

Quote:People want answers, people want change, and people want oversight of the Bush administration.

I don't disagree. But what they don't want is investigation after investigation and a partisan witch hunt. That is what you want wvu, and you're very, very far out of the mainstream.

Quote:But sure, there IS plenty of hate to go around on the side of the Dems, but what is the reason for it? Could it be 6 years of rule by a regime that was simply not interested in any opposing viewpoint? What is the cause of this highly polarized electorate? Look at your President.

I see, it's all Bush's fault you have blind hatred for him.

As far as not interested in an opposing viewpoint, pot, meet kettle.

He's your president to buddy boy, whether you like it or not.

He

[quote="wvucrazed"]You want to cling to the delusion that there isn

Honestly, I think the democrats can get away with some of the social issues (such as gay rights, which I support by the way), if they want to push that. However, if they start raising taxes on the middle class, or start spending even more than what the republicans have been spending and run up our national deficit even more than they won't stay in office long. Before getting into the whole investigation into the Bush administration I'd rather see them balance our budget. Also, if they just cut and run out of Iraq then I will not be happy either. At that point you would just be inviting terrorists to set up camp in that country. I have no problem with them forcing a change for the strategy in that country, but at the same time just walking away from what now is our responsibility (whether inherited or not) would be absolutely sending the wrong message to the rest of the world, the terrorists, and the people of Iraq.

wvucrazed Wrote:

Ninerfan1 Wrote:[quote="wvucrazed"]You think that the general public is going to react negatively if the Dems go forward and work to uncover all of the problems that have been going on in the Bush administration? I think the vast majority of Americans will cheer this. That's one of the main reasons why the Dems were elected last night. Oversight.

Oversight, yes, witch hunt, no. And no way the dems can "let the supeanas fly" like you want and not be exposed as a partisan witch hunt, which they don't want. The majority of Americans will not cheer this.

Quote:All of this high and mighty self-righteousness about "blind hatred" is pretty amusing considering all of the loathing that comes from the right in the direction of Democrats.

It's not self-righteousness, it's a unrefutable fact. And the majority of Americans don't hate Bush like you wvu, and they don't want the same things you do.

Quote:Mention Clinton to a Conservative and watch as his face gets red and steam starts eeking out of his ears. Have you ever listened to right-wing talk radio? I suspect you have. The hatred that spews over the airwaves for hours and hours and hours each day is pretty disgusting.

1. I have listened to "right wing" radio before, but don't much anymore since I work for a living.
2. I'm a conservative and I don't hate Clinton. Never did. Kind of liked the guy personally, hard not to.

Quote:If you think the Dems succeeded last night fed by just blind hatred, well the joke is on you.

My guess is you realize there's no logic to your statements so you're just making sh!t up now. Where did I ever say or imply their success was fed by blind hatred? I didn't. And how could I think such a think when i've already said, more than once, that the majority of americans don't hate Bush the way you do? Try and keep up.

They succeeded because they ran candidates that are about as far away from you politically as you can get. If they'd run dems like you we'd have gained seats in the house, and they knew that.

Quote:You follow the Bush administration line pretty closely. Any disagreement, any questioning is unpatriotic, or "blind hatred", or obstructionist.

Nope. Disagreement is fine. I've never called it unpatriotic or blind hatred. I say you and those that think and debate like you are filled with blind hatred. You're not someone who just disagrees, you despise the president personally and as such you are incapable of disagreeing in a reasonable fashion, or even debating the issues. That fact is pretty evident since your last two statements are just making stuff up.

Quote:People want answers, people want change, and people want oversight of the Bush administration.

I don't disagree. But what they don't want is investigation after investigation and a partisan witch hunt. That is what you want wvu, and you're very, very far out of the mainstream.

Quote:But sure, there IS plenty of hate to go around on the side of the Dems, but what is the reason for it? Could it be 6 years of rule by a regime that was simply not interested in any opposing viewpoint? What is the cause of this highly polarized electorate? Look at your President.

I see, it's all Bush's fault you have blind hatred for him.

As far as not interested in an opposing viewpoint, pot, meet kettle.

He's your president to buddy boy, whether you like it or not.

He

Shorebuc,

Don't have time right now. I'll type during my lunch hour, but we are not that far apart. Onle big difference is our salaries. ;-)

[quote="Ninerfan1"][quote="wvucrazed"]You want to cling to the delusion that there isn

ShoreBuc Wrote:I followed the position of a lot of these new Blue Dog Democrats. You had three in Indiana who all ran on Pro Gun, No new taxes pledge. You had a Democrat in Florida who had recently switched party's as well as Webb in VA.
I don't care what they want to call themselves as long as they are fiscally conservative. As far as social issues?? Abortion rights?? I am all for them in fact I would love to see an abortion clinic put in every urban and poor neighborhood with federal funding. Cheaper to take em out early then feed them from cradle to grave.
Gay rights?? Super!! I don't care what you want to do with your personal life and sex life. You want to get married? Go to it!! As far as I am concerned you can dance down the aisle wearing nothing but a **** ring.

The reason I vote Republican are simple. I paid close $80k in Federal taxes last year and I don't think I should have to pay any more. I don't mind being part of the minority of this country that carries the financial burden or maintaining the greatest country and government in the world.
What I do hate is when some limp d$*k Democrat makes the argument that I am not paying enough taxes.
Why should I vote Democrat?? Nancy Pelosi has already outlined their first 100 days.
1 Minimum wage increase....ugggh no thanks I have not worked for minimum wage since I was in High School and even then I understood minimum wage meant just that the bare minimum and that you have absolutely no marketable skills. Did not take me long to figure out that I wanted some marketable skills.
2. Negotiate with pharmaceuticals for discounted drug prices....once again thanks but no thanks. I have coverage for my prescription drugs and a cheap copay.
3. Fund Stem Cell research.... Great idea and I agree
4. Roll back tax cuts on those making $250k +....bad idea and I am in that group. That group already pays 40% of all taxes collected. How much do the Democrats think they should pay????
5. Enact all the recommendations of the 9/11 commission. Sounds good on paper but at the end of the day a lot of it does not make us any safer. Just like Homeland Security will go down as one of the most wasteful use of federal funds in generations. I say this eventhough my mother in law is a GS15 in the Dept of Homeland Security. They do some great things but most of their mission could of been incorporated into other existing Federal Agencies without creating a new Billion Dollar behemoth of a govt dept.

So at the end of the day if Pelosi and the Democrats are good for you and your family, I am happy for you. But don't expect some of us to celebrate. You also won't get a wo as me speech. Like most conservatives I just need government to stay the hell out of my way. I don't rely on Republicans or Democrats. With Democrats I will most likely have to come out pocket $10k+ which means I will just have to make more money.
Most people crack me up when they think their life is going to change dramatically when the party they root for comes to power. If you rely on a political party or the government for your quality of life you are screwed.

I don't expect conservatives to celebrate, and I don't expect them to lose hope in their agenda. Most Americans agree with Democrats that the tax relief efforts should be focused on the middle-class and not the wealthiest americans. You are not the only one who stands to pay more taxes with the Democrats in power, I will as well. But it's an unfortunate necessity.

Maybe if you're so worried about tax relief, you should look at some of the root causes as to why we need all the revenue in the first place. You notice that big massive sucking sound coming in the general direction of the middle east? That would be the Iraq war, draining billions of $$$$ from US Taxpayers. Ever look at what the GOP congress has been doing with our tax $$$$$ over the last 6 years? The "bridge to nowhere" ring any bells? The GOP has been spending money left and right and we are in debt up to our eyeballs. You think that's the definition of "conservative"?

As for the minimum wage: not everyone is so fortunate as yourself. There are millions of people struggling to make their way paycheck to paycheck, making the minimum wage. It hasn't been raised in over a decade as I recall, and yet the cost of living goes up and up and up. Ever look at the poverty numbers in this country? We are losing high-paying jobs overseas, we have an influx of illegal cheap labor streaming across our borders, and Americans in many places are unable to get ahead. A couple dollars an hour will make a HUGE difference to alot of these folks. It's a no-brainer that the minimum wage should be increased, and it was overwhelmingly supported by a majority of voters in the various states in which it was a ballot initiative this past Tuesday.

Do I think my life will personally change dramatically with Pelosi and the Dems in power? No. But do I think it's good for the country as a whole, and good for our nation's future? Yes I do, no question about it.

Minimum wage has been raised. Look at each state who dictate that minimum wage. Here on St. Thomas you could not get a person to work for minimum wage. I pay my housekeeper $15 per hour.
Our hourly associates at work start at $10 with most making $15+ per hour.
There are plenty of pockets around the U.S. where minimum wage is at its bare minimum low. Most those folks are part time, high school kids, college kids etc.. It was not ever designed to be a living wage.

Most those immigrants you speak of work 2-3 jobs and still have money to send home. When I worked for the bank I had illegals wiring money down south every day and also having thousands in their savings accounts. All working manual labor jobs or minimum wage jobs.

Amazing that they can work for minimum wage or slightly higher, have thousands in savings accounts and still have money to send home to support their family. Think that might have something to do with a work ethic and some fiscal discipline?? I never saw any of them wearing the newest brand of Air Jordans or Polo shirts.

To many Americans are looking for a quick fix and someone to take care of them. Why not just make the minimum wage $15 per hour?? Because even Democrats know that would make the economy suffer.