DrTorch Wrote:ShoreBuc Wrote:Sounds to me like you are letting your belief system exclude any thought of error in the Bible. I would suggest you read Misquoting Jesus The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why.
The Author Bart D. Ehrman is not some agnostic or atheist cook. He chairs the Department of Religious Studies at UNC. Not my favorite school but his credentials and knowledge of the Bible are without question.
He went to Moody Bible School in Chicago which is like a Bible boot camp if you want to learn the Bible. He followed that up with Wheaton College in Chicago which is where Billy Grahmam graduated.
Wheaton College blows. Maybe it was alright when Ehrman was there, but it hasn't been "Christian" in 20+ years.
My pastor mentioned Ehrman's works a few weeks back. He didn't cut on him by any stretch, but he doesn't agree w/ much that he says.
I think the gist was that even Ehrman ripped apart the "support" for The Davinci Code.
Sorry for the interruption, but the facts about Wheaton need to be made known.
No problem. Ehrman mentions in his book that when he left the Moody Bible Institute that he might have trouble finding real Christians at Wheaton which shows how fundamentalist Moody was.
He talks about how when he got there he found it to be very Liberal for his tastes.
Ehrman as a Biblical Historian did rip apart the Da Vinci Code for it's flat our historical errors. He does a great job in his book of seperating Historical fact from literary fiction.
You can disagree with Ehrman and his findings but the study itself is fascinating. As a Historian myself and a Christian I look to the study of Christianity as doing research on my family. To only look at the Roman Catholic Church and their version of Christianity that came from Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicea is like only looking up the blood line of one family member.
To understand Christianity and where we came from you have to also look at the three major variants of Christianity. The Ebionites, the Marcinonites and the Gnostics.
The Ebonites were these Jewish Christians who emphasized the importance of being Jewish as well as Christian. The Marcionites were anti-Jewish and believed that all things Jewish actually belong to the god of the Old Testament, who was not the true God. The Gnostics held to the belief that therre were a number of different gods.
All these groups claimed to go back to Jesus. The Ebionites claim that their teachings were derived from James the Just, who was the brother of Jesus, and who better to know what Jesus taught than his own brother?
Their faith did not spread widely, however, perhaps in part because their belief that people who were Gentiles had to become Jewish to be Christian meant that men had to become circumcised, which means they probably didnt win too many converts.
The Marcinonites were followers of the mid second century Greek Philosopher and teacher Marcion who had spent about five years in Rome working out his Theological system. He believed the apostle Paul had the true insight into Christianity because Paul differentiated between the law and the Gospel. Marcion believed there must of been two seperate God's. The God who gave the law was the god of the OT whereas the god who saved people from the law is the god of Jesus. Similarly the wrathful god of the OT is the god who created this world and chose Israel and gave them his law, whereas the god of Jesus is the one who saves people from this god by dying for their sins.
Marcion was a real threat to Roman Christianity and had a huge following even after he was excommunicated. He went to Asia Minor to establish churches.
The Gnostic version of Christianity is probably the best known variation. It is based on the Eastern Mystery religions and treats Christ like one in the long line of Pagan God Men who was born of virgin birth was crucified and was ressurected three days later. The Gnostics believed that this material world we live in is a cosmic catastrophe and that somehow sparks of the divine have become entrapped in this material world and need to escape, and they can escape when they acquire true knowledge of their situation. The Gnostic system provides them with the knowledge they need for escape, so salvation comes by getting the true knowledge necessary for salvation.
Gnostics are definitely from the line of Pagan mystery religions that were so prevelant in the near east at the time stretching form Alexandria up to Greece and Rome.
We now have a better understanding of the Gnostics with the 1945 discovery at Nag hammadi of the Gospels of Philip, texts recording the acts of Peter and the 12 disciples, apolcalypses attributed to Paul and James as well as other new relgious texts.
The Roman Catholic Church made every attempt to stamp out the different versions once Constantine selected Christianity as the offical religion of the Empire. Eventhough only 18 years prior they had selected Mithraism. The transition was not too tough for Roman citizens because Mithra was born of a virgin, with only a number of shepherds present. Mithras was known as the Way, the Truth, the Light, the Life, the Word, the Son of God and the Good Shepherd. He was pictured carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Sunday was sacred and known as the Lords Day. He was celebrated on December 25 with bells, candles, gifts, hymns and communion . From December 25 until spring equinox Estra(Easter) for 40 days which later became Christian Lent. Mithras was placed in a rock tomb called Petra (Peter). After three days he was removed with giant celebrations, festival and great joy.
The followers of Mithras believed there would be a day of judgement when non believers would perish and believers would live in heaven or paradise (a Persian word) forever and ever.
I know some find this troubling but I find it fascinating. Whether you believe we all decended from Adam or Eve or through evolution, either way we are all related. So I like to study my ancestors and learn from them. Part of that learning for me is also seeing how they approached faith and questioning the world around us. We have always sought answers to the things we do not understand. Well there are still plenty of things I do not understand so I still have plenty of questions.
For some of you, your faith alone is answer enough and I can respect that.
As for me I have faith but still have a lot of questions and I do not see that as a weakness but as a strength. To each his own.