Quote:Could another Killer B be joining the Houston hive?

Houston, Oakland and Kansas City reportedly have discussed a three-way trade that would send Royals center fielder Carlos Beltran to the Astros, Astros closer Octavio Dotel to the A's and a package of minor league talent to the Royals.

Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker declined to comment on the possible deal.

If Beltran were acquired by the Astros, Craig Biggio likely would move from center field back to second base, a position he played for 11 years and won four Gold Gloves at before switching to center field to make room for Jeff Kent last season. The trade also would mean Kent could be moving from second base to third base. Kent has played some 150 games at third base, none since the 1996 season.

It is less certain where the switch-hitting Beltran would hit in the lineup. The 27-year-old native of Puerto Rico has the tools to bat as high as leadoff but normally hits in the middle of the order. Most likely, the Astros would use Beltran along with switch-hitting Lance Berkman in the middle of the order to offset the heavily right-handed leaning lineup that also includes Biggio, Kent and Jeff Bagwell.

A career .288 hitter, Beltran was the 1999 American League Rookie of the Year and has averaged 26 homers and 104 RBIs per year since coming into the Majors. He stole a career-high 41 bases last season.

Beltran will be a free agent at the end of the year and likely would be out of Houston's price range once the bidding begins this winter. But Hunsicker has gambled similarly on short-term options in the past, most recently in 1998, when the club acquired Randy Johnson for the postseason push even though it was understood Johnson would not re-sign with the team in 1999.

Where current Houston third baseman Morgan Ensberg and Mike Lamb would fit in this scenario is still under discussion.

Biggio has been taking ground balls at second base during pregame drills this week. When questioned about it, the seven-time All-Star laughed and indicated he was "just playing around." Biggio also said he had no knowledge of any trade in the works or his possibly moving back to second base.

The 30-year-old Dotel, who has converted 14 of 17 save opportunities, would give the A's the closer they desperately need. Oakland has 14 blown saves, the second most in the American League behind Cleveland and third most in baseball. Dotel's departure would mean Brad Lidge, who pitched the ninth inning and picked up a save Tuesday night against Pittsburgh, would become Houston's closer.

The Royals would be moving a talented player, but one they would lose as a free agent after the season, in exchange for a collection of high ceiling talent who could help the club in the near future.

Would help all teams I think, but do the Astros have anyone else that can close??

jrhessey Wrote:

Quote:Could another Killer B be joining the Houston hive?

Houston, Oakland and Kansas City reportedly have discussed a three-way trade that would send Royals center fielder Carlos Beltran to the Astros, Astros closer Octavio Dotel to the A's and a package of minor league talent to the Royals.

Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker declined to comment on the possible deal.

If Beltran were acquired by the Astros, Craig Biggio likely would move from center field back to second base, a position he played for 11 years and won four Gold Gloves at before switching to center field to make room for Jeff Kent last season. The trade also would mean Kent could be moving from second base to third base. Kent has played some 150 games at third base, none since the 1996 season.

It is less certain where the switch-hitting Beltran would hit in the lineup. The 27-year-old native of Puerto Rico has the tools to bat as high as leadoff but normally hits in the middle of the order. Most likely, the Astros would use Beltran along with switch-hitting Lance Berkman in the middle of the order to offset the heavily right-handed leaning lineup that also includes Biggio, Kent and Jeff Bagwell.

A career .288 hitter, Beltran was the 1999 American League Rookie of the Year and has averaged 26 homers and 104 RBIs per year since coming into the Majors. He stole a career-high 41 bases last season.

Beltran will be a free agent at the end of the year and likely would be out of Houston's price range once the bidding begins this winter. But Hunsicker has gambled similarly on short-term options in the past, most recently in 1998, when the club acquired Randy Johnson for the postseason push even though it was understood Johnson would not re-sign with the team in 1999.

Where current Houston third baseman Morgan Ensberg and Mike Lamb would fit in this scenario is still under discussion.

Biggio has been taking ground balls at second base during pregame drills this week. When questioned about it, the seven-time All-Star laughed and indicated he was "just playing around." Biggio also said he had no knowledge of any trade in the works or his possibly moving back to second base.

The 30-year-old Dotel, who has converted 14 of 17 save opportunities, would give the A's the closer they desperately need. Oakland has 14 blown saves, the second most in the American League behind Cleveland and third most in baseball. Dotel's departure would mean Brad Lidge, who pitched the ninth inning and picked up a save Tuesday night against Pittsburgh, would become Houston's closer.

The Royals would be moving a talented player, but one they would lose as a free agent after the season, in exchange for a collection of high ceiling talent who could help the club in the near future.

Would help all teams I think, but do the Astros have anyone else that can close??

They have Brad Lidge, but then that makes their bullpen before him very weak.

This is a good trade for the Astros, especially since Dotel has struggled. Kent at third would be an adventure, but get Biggio back to second.

cbfranchise3 Wrote:

jrhessey Wrote:

Quote:Could another Killer B be joining the Houston hive?

Houston, Oakland and Kansas City reportedly have discussed a three-way trade that would send Royals center fielder Carlos Beltran to the Astros, Astros closer Octavio Dotel to the A's and a package of minor league talent to the Royals.

Houston GM Gerry Hunsicker declined to comment on the possible deal.

If Beltran were acquired by the Astros, Craig Biggio likely would move from center field back to second base, a position he played for 11 years and won four Gold Gloves at before switching to center field to make room for Jeff Kent last season. The trade also would mean Kent could be moving from second base to third base. Kent has played some 150 games at third base, none since the 1996 season.

It is less certain where the switch-hitting Beltran would hit in the lineup. The 27-year-old native of Puerto Rico has the tools to bat as high as leadoff but normally hits in the middle of the order. Most likely, the Astros would use Beltran along with switch-hitting Lance Berkman in the middle of the order to offset the heavily right-handed leaning lineup that also includes Biggio, Kent and Jeff Bagwell.

A career .288 hitter, Beltran was the 1999 American League Rookie of the Year and has averaged 26 homers and 104 RBIs per year since coming into the Majors. He stole a career-high 41 bases last season.

Beltran will be a free agent at the end of the year and likely would be out of Houston's price range once the bidding begins this winter. But Hunsicker has gambled similarly on short-term options in the past, most recently in 1998, when the club acquired Randy Johnson for the postseason push even though it was understood Johnson would not re-sign with the team in 1999.

Where current Houston third baseman Morgan Ensberg and Mike Lamb would fit in this scenario is still under discussion.

Biggio has been taking ground balls at second base during pregame drills this week. When questioned about it, the seven-time All-Star laughed and indicated he was "just playing around." Biggio also said he had no knowledge of any trade in the works or his possibly moving back to second base.

The 30-year-old Dotel, who has converted 14 of 17 save opportunities, would give the A's the closer they desperately need. Oakland has 14 blown saves, the second most in the American League behind Cleveland and third most in baseball. Dotel's departure would mean Brad Lidge, who pitched the ninth inning and picked up a save Tuesday night against Pittsburgh, would become Houston's closer.

The Royals would be moving a talented player, but one they would lose as a free agent after the season, in exchange for a collection of high ceiling talent who could help the club in the near future.

Would help all teams I think, but do the Astros have anyone else that can close??

They have Brad Lidge, but then that makes their bullpen before him very weak.

This is a good trade for the Astros, especially since Dotel has struggled. Kent at third would be an adventure, but get Biggio back to second.

they would have NO bullpen. And as we all know, there isn't a team in the world that can win without a bullpen.

there's been about 10 teams rumored to bhe getting beltran.

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well, easy come easy go. The astros aren't getting beltran. That actually works out well for the astros because the loss of dotel would've been catastrophic.

Astros traded Dotel and Buck to KC and we are getting Beltran, done deal. Just heard it from the announcers while watching the Astros game

Uzian Wrote:Astros traded Dotel and Buck to KC and we are getting Beltran, done deal. Just heard it from the announcers while watching the Astros game

yeah i heard it too. bad trade for houston.

flyingswoosh Wrote:

Uzian Wrote:Astros traded Dotel and Buck to KC and we are getting Beltran, done deal. Just heard it from the announcers while watching the Astros game

yeah i heard it too. bad trade for houston.

Say that again?

This is an unbelievable trade for Houston. Now Biggio can move to left field and you have Beltran in center with Berkman moving to right. That's an outfield that can cover some ground.

BTW, the Royals turned around and traded Dotel to the A's for a couple of farmhands.

Awesome trade for the Astros!! I figured Biggio would move back to second....but that would mean sliding Kent to 3rd. Anyway, I think this will spark a flame inside the Killer B's!


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Also, do you think Dotel will close or move into the set-up role? I think with all the problems Rhodes has had this year, Dotel just may be the man in Oakland.

i will say it again, this trade is bad for houston. One thing before i assess it. Gdawgs, berkman is a poor outfielder and biggio is awful. back to the trade. Can any of you name me the last team to win a WS without a bullpen, or 2 godlike starters? yno, you can't. because it doesn't happen. hitting puts fans in the seats, pitching wins championships. And on a team with an extremely thin bullpen, this hurts.

you also have to remember that when the astros get knocked out of the playoff race, they'll be screwed for next season. because they won't sign beltran and they won't have dotel.

flyingswoosh Wrote:Gdawgs, berkman is a poor outfielder and biggio is awful. back to the trade. Can any of you name me the last team to win a WS without a bullpen, or 2 godlike starters? yno, you can't. because it doesn't happen. hitting puts fans in the seats, pitching wins championships. And on a team with an extremely thin bullpen, this hurts.

Biggio can still run a little bit and he doesn't have to have a strong arm to play left. Berkman is a little clumsy out there, but he's got a good arm.

Also, you said to name a team that won a World Series without two great starters. What about the Angels in 2002? Or the Yankees in '99? Also, I think you're underestimating Houston's bullpen. Dotel had a good ERA but he was far from automatic. Besides, Brad Lidge was going to be their closer sometime anyways. And they traded for Weathers the other day, a guy who can really help them.

One thing's for sure, though, Jimy Williams better get this team to the playoffs.

GDawgs88 Wrote:Also, you said to name a team that won a World Series without two great starters. What about the Angels in 2002? Or the Yankees in '99? Also, I think you're underestimating Houston's bullpen. Dotel had a good ERA but he was far from automatic. Besides, Brad Lidge was going to be their closer sometime anyways. And they traded for Weathers the other day, a guy who can really help them.

One thing's for sure, though, Jimy Williams better get this team to the playoffs.

i said name a team that didn't have a great bullpen, OR 2 amazing starters. The angels and the yankees bothe had great bullpens, and the d-backs had 2 amazing starters.

Prior to the trade, houston had dotel, lidge and weathers. they now have lidge and weathers (weathers isn't exactly lights out). 2 relief pitchers will not get the job done come september.

What about Mike Gallo and Dan Miceli?

By the way, Clemens and Pettite (when he comes back) don't count as two great starters?

Also, Chad Harville has been pitching pretty well lately.

Well if we can't sign Beltran I'm not sure how great the deal is. How many years were left on Dotel's deal?

GDawgs88 Wrote:What about Mike Gallo and Dan Miceli?

By the way, Clemens and Pettite (when he comes back) don't count as two great starters?

so you have the nerve to tell me that clemens and pettitte are as good as johnson and schilling were in 2001? yeah right!

Gallo has thrown a whopping 22 innings, which means he's a mopu up/ slash 6th inning guy. Miceli's ERA has been climbing steadily, ever since he started off like a house on fire.

Chad harville, riiight. so a 5.09 ERA is good? Miceli is on pace to throw a lot of innings, he'll never last.

This is the same thing that happened to the astros bullpen last year. They were overworked and consequently sputtered to the finish line. Except last year they had wagner and dotel. This time they have neither.

Other important facts:
Innings/start for the five starters-
Miller- less than 6
oswalt-a little less than 7
clemens-6.1
Pettitte-5.1
Redding-about 5

If the bullpen were deep i would say this isn't a problem. But this is one of the thinnest bullpens on a contender that i have ever seen. if this pitching staff doesn't throw mroe innings, the bullpen will die come august. unless hunsicker can get some help.

HerdKixButt Wrote:Well if we can't sign Beltran I'm not sure how great the deal is. How many years were left on Dotel's deal?

i think dotel is going to be a free agent.