jjburtzel,Aug 25 2004, 10:37 AM Wrote:

HuskieDan,Aug 25 2004, 09:05 AM Wrote:

jjburtzel,Aug 25 2004, 07:15 AM Wrote:[QUOTE=Trooper,Aug 25 2004, 06:41 AM] hypocrites.......waaaaahaaaaaaahahahahahahahaha. Try out and out liars on for size boys.

My favorite parts of this story are bolded:

Quote:CRAWFORD, Texas (Reuters) - A top lawyer for President Bush (news - web sites)'s re-election campaign has been providing legal advice to the group that has accused Democrat John Kerry (news - web sites) of lying about his Vietnam War record, informed sources  said on Tuesday.

The sources, who asked not to be identified, said Ben Ginsberg, the Bush campaign's chief outside counsel, has also been giving legal advice to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, the group that is attacking Kerry.

Well, I have an informed source who asked not to be identified that says that Darth Vader is going to attack the Oompa-Loompas with King Arthur's sword so that he can obtain the ring of power before the flying monkeys use Princess Zelda as a vessel to escape from Ming the Merciless. I'm thinking about making a movie, err, documentary called Celsius 11/4 revealing that this entire story is a coverup for the fact that the Easter Bunny tried to kill Santa Claus with the help of Darth Vader but failed so they covered it up by blaming the Tooth Fairy.

If someone is willing to stand by the accusations about the Bush campaign and information linking Ginsberg then I will give it serious consideration. But until then, it's not worth my time.

Perhaps this will help out your "credibility" issues with the story....

<a href='http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&ncid=1963&e=4&u=/ap/20040825/ap_on_el_pr/veterans_group_bush_6&sid=96378798' target='_blank'>Ginsberg "discloses" his service to Swift Boats group</a>

Yep...and I read the whole article too.

I did find this part interesting:

Quote:Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and MoveOn.org, a group running anti-Bush ads, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once. Attorneys are ethically bound to maintain attorney-client confidentiality, and could lose their law licenses if they violate that, he said.[quote]

So I guess it's a non-issue that Ginsberg works for both. Story verified...no laws broken.

The Bush campaign and the veterans group say there is no coordination. "

............ and no laws were broken.

Hey Libs, we weren't the ones bitching about 527's, you were. The same standards cannot be applied because we didn't give a rat's *** in the first place. It's when your hypocrisy came out that we decided to strike back.

Quote:Joe Sandler, a lawyer for the DNC and MoveOn.org, a group running anti-Bush ads, said there is nothing wrong with serving in both roles at once. Attorneys are ethically bound to maintain attorney-client confidentiality, and could lose their law licenses if they violate that, he said.

Quote:So I guess it's a non-issue that Ginsberg works for both.&nbsp; Story verified...no laws broken.

Quote:The Bush campaign and the veterans group say there is no coordination. "

............ and no laws were broken.

So you're saying what, exactly? That if Kerry says there is no coordination between MoveOn.org and the Kerry campaign we should believe him...but if Bush says there's no coordination between his campaign and the swiftboat vets, we should doubt it? Convenient. :rolleyes:

RebelKev Wrote:Hey Libs, we weren't the ones bitching about 527's, you were. The same standards cannot be applied because we didn't give a rat's *** in the first place. It's when your hypocrisy came out that we decided to strike back.

Not true.

The Republicans went to court to try to put all the 527s out of business. Their attempt to do so failed. That was months ago.

My primary concern -- and the concern of most Democrats -- has always been the irresponsibility of the Swift Boaters for Bush ad.

The fact that this ad has Democrats yelping has given Bush and the right wing media a chance to try to turn the issue back into an indictment of all 527s. They don't like the fact that Democratic-leaning groups are matching their spending.

Democrats have never made 527s, per se, an issue.

DrTorch Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:You call all that honorable and truthful?&nbsp;

Quote:Revealed: how 'war hero' Kerry tried to put off Vietnam military duty
By Charles Laurence in New York
(Filed: 07/03/2004)


Senator John Kerry, the presumed Democratic presidential candidate who is trading on his Vietnam war record to campaign against President George W Bush, tried to defer his military service for a year, according to a newly rediscovered article in a Harvard University newspaper.

 &nbsp;
Senator Kerry on the campaign trail in Iowa
He wrote to his local recruitment board seeking permission to spend a further 12 months studying in Paris, after completing his degree course at Yale University in the mid-1960s.

The revelation appears to undercut Sen Kerry's carefully-cultivated image as a man who willingly served his country in a dangerous war - in supposed contrast to President Bush, who served in the Texas National Guard and thus avoided being sent to Vietnam.

The Harvard Crimson newspaper followed a youthful Mr Kerry in Boston as he campaigned for Congress for the first time in 1970. In the course of a lengthy article, "John Kerry: A Navy Dove Runs for Congress", published on February 18, the paper reported: "When he approached his draft board for permission to study for a year in Paris, the draft board refused and Kerry decided to enlist in the Navy."

Quote:According to the Democratic Party's version of Sen Kerry's military history, he joined the Reserve Officer Training Corps at Harvard through eagerness to do his duty, and sailed with the Navy for combat as soon as he graduated in 1966.

You were saying? :wave:

Bush put it off for 35 years.

All the 527's Schad? As in, BI-PARTISAN!!!????? Hmmmm....... That's a little different than trying to get an opposing 527 hushed up, dont'cha think? I want to see the link though, I've never heard of it. Can you provide one?

As far as "irresponsibility", well, let's see, comparing Bush to Hitler, having chains dragging behind trucks, saying another black church will burn, etc., well buddy, that's been pretty irresponsible if you ask me.

I don't remember you bitching when Bush's military record was on the line.....DON'T ***** when Kerry's is. I AM a military veteran, so don't bring up that BS. His entire campaign is on his military service.....NOT his senatorial service.....so don't go there. You're just pissed because you know you Dems picked the wrong guy.

BTW, his 4.5 month military service as opposed to his 19 years in the senate. He also doesn't want to talk about what he said when he was STILL in uniform, to the Senate. He's a traitor and a POS.

Kinda missing Dean, huh?

Also, I reiterate, show me a link where Bush tried to get 527's banned.....as John Kerry did with "Unfit for Command".

I am actually opposed, even though the Dems outspend Conservs 23/1, to campaign finance reform OR telling people what they can do with their own money. What I AM opposed to is the hypocrisy.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:My gosh you are dense. :rolleyes:

Quote:It isn't even clear Moore is a delegate. More than likely, he got into the convention with a press pass. And, at some point -- the night of Jimmy Carter's speech, I believe -- Carter invited Moore to join him in his seating area for a little bit.

While that is a precious story and I'm sure you'd love to believe it's true, the fact is that was Kerry's convention. And if he didn't want Moore there, he wouldn't have been there. If he didn't want Moore to have a back stage pass and a seat in that box, he wouldn't have had it.

Keep making up stories and keep running cover for Kerry. You've already established you don't care if he's a liar. Why should you care to lie for him?

Niner:

It was the Democratic Convention, not the John Kerry Convention.

The Kerry campaign likely had a sizable amount of input into the prime time schedule of events, but it was the Democratic National Committee that ultimately managed the convention.

(And if you watched the whole thing, you would have seen that they never let Moore anywhere near the stage -- or Kerry.)

I consider it doubtful that Kerry had any say over which media were given credentials. This would have been the DNC's call, and they were obviously pretty liberal about which media they allowed in. After all, Larry Elder even managed to finagle a convention press pass -- and if they let that right-wing nut job in, of course they were going to give Moore a media pass.

Finally, it is a plain fact that the Kerry campaign would have had almost no say whatsoever over the delegates themselves -- except so far as low-level flunkies recruited friends to run as pro-Kerry delegates way back in January, long before Moore's movie came out.

Even then, the Kerry campaign's influence was marginal. In Ohio (and I think this is true throughout the country), prospective delegates for each presidential candidate are chosen through a popular vote as part of a caucus of Democrats in each Congressional district.*

So if Moore wanted to be a prospective Kerry (or a Clark or an Edwards) delegate and he packed the room with enough of his friends, he would have been a prospective Kerry (or a Clark or an Edwards) delegate, and it would have been out of Kerry's hands.

That's how most of the delegates were chosen. Party chairmen and chairwomen had the freedom to select some at-large delegates -- but, again, this would have been been almost entirely out of Kerry's control.

So call my story precious.

I stand by it.

----
* Once the prospective delegates are chosen, it's up to the candidate they support to actually win in that Congressional District. Only then would they have the opportunity to go to the convention.

RebelKev Wrote:Also, I reiterate, show me a link where Bush tried to get 527's banned.....

Lawsuit was too strong a word, but here:

<a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18917-2004May11.html' target='_blank'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004May11.html</a>

Quote:I am actually opposed, even though the Dems outspend Conservs 23/1,

:laugh:

<a href='http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index/AllCands.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index...ex/AllCands.htm</a>

Schadenfreude Wrote:You call all that honorable and truthful?

Yes, I do. Not a single one of these things you cite suggests that a single one of these guys are lying or being dishonorable.

George Elliot-The entire unit did serve with honor in his mind. That does not mean that Kerry was not lying when he puked in front of Congress. The fact that a swarming media could make an old man wish he had just kept his mouth shut is not an indication that what he said was not true.

Roy Hoffman-He may admire what Kerry did to be awarded a Silver Star and still believe that Kerry lied about what he saw and did in Vietman.

Louis Letson-When was the last time you were in the hospital? I bet more than one person treated you while you were there. I bet that not everyone of them signed the record upon your discharge.

Adrian L Lonsdale-Just because Kerry could drive a boat well does not make him a leader. It makes him a good boat driver...........maybe one of the finest. Does not qualify him to be President.

Van Odell-Were not the citations based upon Kerry's own after action reports? This guy could have very well seen something different than what was cited.

Larry Thurlow-He did not award himself the Star nor did he write the report or the citation to get it.

None of the things you copied and pasted, in and of themselves, discredit a thing these guys have said.

Being an anarchist or a gadfly does not, in and of itself, make one a patriot, either.

Schadenfreude Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:Also, I reiterate, show me a link where Bush tried to get 527's banned.....

Lawsuit was too strong a word, but here:

<a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18917-2004May11.html' target='_blank'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004May11.html</a>

Quote:I am actually opposed, even though the Dems outspend Conservs 23/1,

:laugh:

<a href='http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index/AllCands.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index...ex/AllCands.htm</a>

I don't see how that means anything. Delay called the stop after SEVERAL ads against Bush. Bush called for the stop of ALL ads. How is this bad for Bush? :stupid:


Oh, and you wanna bring up Gore, I thought you were the guys wanting us to stop bringing up the past? :stupid: ...again.

RebelKev Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:Also, I reiterate, show me a link where Bush tried to get 527's banned.....

Lawsuit was too strong a word, but here:

<a href='http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A18917-2004May11.html' target='_blank'>http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...-2004May11.html</a>

Quote:I am actually opposed, even though the Dems outspend Conservs 23/1,

:laugh:

<a href='http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index/AllCands.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.opensecrets.org/2000elect/index...ex/AllCands.htm</a>

I don't see how that means anything. Delay called the stop after SEVERAL ads against Bush. Bush called for the stop of ALL ads. How is this bad for Bush? :stupid:


Oh, and you wanna bring up Gore, I thought you were the guys wanting us to stop bringing up the past? :stupid: ...again.

I don't understand your post.

Like I said, I am all for 527's, AGAINST Campaign Finance Reform, but I want it fair. You guys want to talk smack, FINE! Don't expect the same from the other side. Tom Delay, Tx-R, was one of the main ones that started that move to bring in CFR. I opposed it then, and I oppose it now. You have to realize why they did it, MOST media IS controlled by the left. ...and they were wrong in calling for it, but they were saying, "Hey, you want CFR, then abide by it damnnit".

BTW:

What you will hear in the media:

"A group of Vietnam veterans bankrolled by George Bush supporters ...."

Now what you WON'T hear:


"Moveon.org, an organization bankrolled by John Kerry supporters ......"

RebelKev Wrote:BTW:

What you will hear in the media:

"A group of Vietnam veterans bankrolled by George Bush supporters ...."

Now what you WON'T hear:


"Moveon.org, an organization bankrolled by John Kerry supporters ......"

Usually, Moveon is described as liberal or Democratic leaning.

Schadenfreude Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:BTW:

What you will hear in the media:

"A group of Vietnam veterans bankrolled by George Bush supporters ...."

Now what you WON'T hear:


"Moveon.org, an organization bankrolled by John Kerry supporters ......"

Usually, Moveon is described as liberal or Democratic leaning.

Uh Huh, why is Kerry's attorney working with them????? You suck at spin.

RandyMc Wrote:

Schadenfreude Wrote:You call all that honorable and truthful?&nbsp;

Yes, I do. Not a single one of these things you cite suggests that a single one of these guys are lying or being dishonorable.

George Elliot-The entire unit did serve with honor in his mind. That does not mean that Kerry was not lying when he puked in front of Congress.

I'll stop you right here.

The entire weight of the ad is geared toward suggesting Kerry -- a man who volunteered to put his life on the line for our country, unlike Bush -- did not deserve the medals he won in Vietnam.

What the Swift Boaters for Bush may have done is take this quote out of its original context -- anger over Kerry's testimony to Congress -- and placed into the context of whether or not Kerry deserved his medals.

That's a terrible distortion -- dishonest and revolting.

Of course, it's par for the course for Bush supporters. In 2000, they were suggesting McCain wasn't fit to be president because he went nuts while in captivity in Hanoi.

How many decent men are these animals going to tear down on behalf of a man used his rich father's connections to get out of going to Vietnam -- and then went AWOL around the time the National Guard instituted mandatory drug testing?

It's disgusting.

Schadenfreude Wrote:How many decent men are these animals going to tear down on behalf of a man used his rich father's connections to get out of going to Vietnam -- and then went AWOL around the time the National Guard instituted mandatory drug testing?

It's disgusting.

This is just another example of people who make their life and living selling the truth as a lie and making lies true. Let's see what we can make up today.

What an awful way to live! It must be physically and emotionally exhausting.

The American people will have it figured out by November.