I was watching the news and happed to catch part of an ad by one of the many groups running ads. They were talking about Bush's no child left behind and how your child was being left behind. I know the intent of the ad was to make you think Bush is doing a bad job and to get you to vote for Kerry. However my first thought was if you allow your child to be left behind and if your depending on the fedral goverment to educate your child, you are a rotten parent.

i was more bugged by the Vice President of the United States warning that if John Kerry gets elected, that's a sure recipe for another 9/11.

The Bush campaign has been using fear of terrorism, which is pretty low. I think Bush can handle criticism of his "no child left behind" policy since, after all, there is alot about it to criticize.

wvucrazed Wrote:i was more bugged by the Vice President of the United States warning that if John Kerry gets elected, that's a sure recipe for another 9/11.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Liberals spend a year pounding on president Bush, calling him Hitler, saying he knew about 9/11 before it happened, calling him a liar etc. and the first time you get hit back you whine.

Liberals are like the punks in every elementary school in the nation. They hit and run and when you catch them and hit back they cry to the teacher.

Treating terrorism the way we did prior to 9/11, which is what Kerry wants to do by fighting is a law enforcement matter and not a war, is a formula for another 9/11.

Clearly by every post you make you illustrate why Democrats are so bad on national security. You don't have a clue what it takes to defend a country.

The worst schools in the South are in Democratically controlled areas. Argue that WVU. As far as money, more is spent per student in South Atlanta than in Columbia County where I live. We have some of the highest SAT scores in the state whereas South Atlanta is barely getting by on their graduation rate. You're policies have failed and have for 40 years. Plain as that.

RebelKev Wrote:The worst schools in the South are in Democratically controlled areas. Argue that WVU. As far as money, more is spent per student in South Atlanta than in Columbia County where I live. We have some of the highest SAT scores in the state whereas South Atlanta is barely getting by on their graduation rate. You're policies have failed and have for 40 years. Plain as that.

I think there have been a couple democratic success stories somewhere in the 40 years of abject failure that you proclaim.

For example: Bill Clinton left office w/ huge, HUGE surpluses. The argument was how to spend the surplus, what to do with the surplus. Now what do we have under Dubya? Record deficits. One small example.

I have no clue about what goes on in school districts in South Atlanta and Columbia County. I can say that I would certainly not blindly support anything proposed by a democrat, or any democratic candidate. in fact, I strongly supported Dubya in 2000, and attended a rally in Morgantown, WV only a few nights before the election that I believe made the difference in carrying West Virginia for Bush, and thereby the election (well, sorta... )

But what he has done in office is NOT what he ran on - at all.

Oh, here we go. Clinton the God. I.T. had nothing to do with the '90's. It was Clinton and his tax increases. I know an increase in MY taxes ALWAYS makes me want to spend more. :rolleyes:

I am IN the field that caused the boom of the '90's. Hell, Harvard studies have shown that Clinton actually HINDERED the potential of what the economy could have become in the '90's.

Dude, poor people don't invest. Poor people don't create jobs. You wanna "F" over the rich people, go ahead. ***** about'em all you want. Bear in mind though, they ARE creating the jobs and they ARE driving the economy. Talk about outsourcing? Wanna know why? Democrats have imposed outrageous taxes on them. ANYONE with half a brain knows you can't tax a business. You can ONLY tax an individual. A business will incorporate the cost into their product/service. It's sometimes cheaper for them to outsource overseas to remain competitive. Blame the damn Democrats.

BTW, Heinz outsources. What does Kerry have to say about that? NOTHING! Course, he also doesn't own any SUV's....his family does. :rolleyes:


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Member since '02

RebelKev Wrote:The worst schools in the South are in Democratically controlled areas. Argue that WVU. As far as money, more is spent per student in South Atlanta than in Columbia County where I live. We have some of the highest SAT scores in the state whereas South Atlanta is barely getting by on their graduation rate. You're policies have failed and have for 40 years. Plain as that.

That's not fair to say... For example, North Carolina consistently rates in the bottom 5 of states in terms of test scores and overall education. I believe last year it was 48th out of 50. North Carolina is also one of the few states that almost always votes for a GOP president (e.g. Bob Dole). However, typically liberal parts of NC, like the Triangle and Charlotte, have some of the most thriving public high schools in the country (Chapel Hill HS, East Chapel Hill HS, Meyers Park). That leaves the parts of NC that are typically conservative (much of the Piedmont, the Mountain region, and most areas in between), that have terrible education. I don't know anything about Atlanta, but I can tell you, without a doubt, that North Carolina is a state that directly contradicts your post.

The triangle and Charlotte? Methinks you are talking about the suburbs and not the inner-city of Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham. Hell, Alpharetta, outside of Atlanta, has some of the highest as well, but I damn sure wouldn't categorize them with inner-city Atlanta. How about we break down school districts in the aforementioned areas you stated?

RebelKev Wrote:The triangle and Charlotte? Methinks you are talking about the suburbs and not the inner-city of Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham. Hell, Alpharetta, outside of Atlanta, has some of the highest as well, but I damn sure wouldn't categorize them with inner-city Atlanta. How about we break down school districts in the aforementioned areas you stated?

Sure. Why don't we talk about the Chapel Hill-Carrboro city school district, and the Charlotte-Mecklenburg county school district. In each of these districts, you have a high school that is widely considered one of the best 50 public high schools in the entire nation. Also, in inner city Raleigh, there is Broughton High School, probably #3 in the state behind East Chapel Hill HS and Myers Park HS in Charlotte. Throw Wake County schools into the mix.

Augusta has 2 high schools that are some of the top in the state, Davison Fine Arts and A.R. Johnson(A sciences school), but they are regional magnet schools and not an indicator for how Richmond County Schools perform. I can't speak for where you're at. I can, however, speak for Jackson, Mississippi, Atlanta, Ga., Augusta, Ga. as a whole, and to a past extent, Memphis, Tn. My best friend teaches in a rural area of Ga., Jefferson County, and I can tell you, it comes down to parenting, NOT throwing money at the issue. The Democrats answer to everything is to throw money at the situation. As witnessed by many people, that is NOT the answer. We have created a nation of entitlements and blame. I do not like the way the country is being handled by liberals. I am a Libertarian and I think Liberal policies are bad for this country.

RebelKev Wrote:Augusta has 2 high schools that are some of the top in the state, Davison Fine Arts and A.R. Johnson(A sciences school), but they are regional magnet schools and not an indicator for how Richmond County Schools perform. I can't speak for where you're at. I can, however, speak for Jackson, Mississippi, Atlanta, Ga., Augusta, Ga. as a whole, and to a past extent, Memphis, Tn. My best friend teaches in a rural area of Ga., Jefferson County, and I can tell you, it comes down to parenting, NOT throwing money at the issue. The Democrats answer to everything is to throw money at the situation. As witnessed by many people, that is NOT the answer. We have created a nation of entitlements and blame. I do not like the way the country is being handled by liberals. I am a Libertarian and I think Liberal policies are bad for this country.

I completely agree about where education happens. Family structure is vital to the education system. Part of the reason I think "No Child Left Behind" is useless is because it will just create more red tape for teachers to follow, and less "true teaching" will happen. What it takes to have good education is passionate young people who have a desire to learn. That desire to learn is not going to manifest itself just because some politician throws a new policy and more money at the schools. It will manifest itself when parents instill values and a love of learning into their children from the day they are born.

I don't like the way the country is being handled by many liberals. However, I've yet to see a substantial number of conservatives concentrate on the real issues in this country. Any Bill Frist fans out there? There's a good guy to run in 08. I had the pleasure of meeting with his family in Nashville a while back. He really is a great guy who knows what is good for this country.

The only way to handle the education problem is to hold parents accountable. Sorry to say.

Open Secrets Wrote:

RebelKev Wrote:The triangle and Charlotte? Methinks you are talking about the suburbs and not the inner-city of Charlotte and Raleigh-Durham. Hell, Alpharetta, outside of Atlanta, has some of the highest as well, but I damn sure wouldn't categorize them with inner-city Atlanta. How about we break down school districts in the aforementioned areas you stated?

Sure. Why don't we talk about the Chapel Hill-Carrboro city school district, and the Charlotte-Mecklenburg county school district. In each of these districts, you have a high school that is widely considered one of the best 50 public high schools in the entire nation. Also, in inner city Raleigh, there is Broughton High School, probably #3 in the state behind East Chapel Hill HS and Myers Park HS in Charlotte. Throw Wake County schools into the mix.

so, are you trying to talk about my school? do you go to East or Chapel Hill. Because if you do, you could tell me how much grade inflation there is at those two schools. You could also recognize that the number of affluent people who got to East is a lot higher than most high school around the country. It just so happens that in Chapel Hill, the parents care more about education than at these redneck and black schools. Look at hillside. it's about a 25 minute drive from East, yet the school is terrible. It's filled with blacks and even has it's own nursery (for the students' children).

Open Secrets Wrote:That leaves the parts of NC that are typically conservative (much of the Piedmont, the Mountain region, and most areas in between), that have terrible education. I don't know anything about Atlanta, but I can tell you, without a doubt, that North Carolina is a state that directly contradicts your post.

Quote:That's not fair to say... For example, North Carolina consistently rates in the bottom 5 of states in terms of test scores and overall education. I believe last year it was 48th out of 50. North Carolina is also one of the few states that almost always votes for a GOP president (e.g. Bob Dole).

And NC has had democratic governors for 16 of the last 20 years. Governors and state legislatures, also controlled by Dems for much of the last 20 years, are more responsible for the education in NC than the president.

Quote:However, typically liberal parts of NC, like the Triangle and Charlotte, have some of the most thriving public high schools in the country (Chapel Hill HS, East Chapel Hill HS, Meyers Park).

You're not serious are you? Charlotte-Meck school district is an absolute joke. I should know, I live here. And Meyers Park high school is in the most affluent area of Charlotte. Of course it's a thriving school, all the rich kids go there. You can go to any school district in the country and pick out one or two high schools that are doing well just by going to the affluent areas.

NC fits right in with Kev's point, primarily b/c we've had liberal democratic governors for decades. We still rank in the bottom of the nation in test scores.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

wvucrazed Wrote:i was more bugged by the Vice President of the United States warning that if John Kerry gets elected, that's a sure recipe for another 9/11.

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Liberals spend a year pounding on president Bush, calling him Hitler, saying he knew about 9/11 before it happened, calling him a liar etc. and the first time you get hit back you whine.

Liberals are like the punks in every elementary school in the nation. They hit and run and when you catch them and hit back they cry to the teacher.

Treating terrorism the way we did prior to 9/11, which is what Kerry wants to do by fighting is a law enforcement matter and not a war, is a formula for another 9/11.

Clearly by every post you make you illustrate why Democrats are so bad on national security. You don't have a clue what it takes to defend a country.

It gets really old seeing the word "liberal" used like a curse word every time some guy on the right side of the aisle has someone disagree with him. Nobody called Bush Hitler. They said that some of the things he was doing were SIMILAR to what was done in 1932 Germany. Carl Rove would be proud of that, if he'd thought it up. Bush's campaign tried to smear Kerry on his Vietnam service almost a year ago. It's come back to bite them in the backside, but all of a sudden it's become another crying point for Bush supporters: that Kerry keeps attacking him on 30 year old service records that shouldn't mean anything. Someone on Bush's side thought it meant enough to bring it up last spring, and thought the "explanations" that were given when he ran for governor of Texas and again for president would be enough. Nothing quite like the spotlight of a bitterly divided nation to put a little glare in your eyes.
I'm tired of Iraq being called part of the war on terror. It is no such thing and never has been. The war on terror was being fought (inadequately) in Afghanistan immediately following 9/11. That war was actually going pretty well until we decided to make a pre-emptive strike against Iraq. Now Afghanistan is sliding backwards and we're all focused on Iraq, thanks to a) Bush and b) the national media.
Clues about defending a country? That's cute. Bush's national security advisor, while a brilliant woman, is a specialist on Soviet relations. She has little more background on Middle East dynamics or Islamist politics than any decent college prof, and perhaps less than many. The entire security team of the Bush administration is made up of Cold Warriors and their successors. They're learning how to defend against terrorism as they go. They're fighting the only kind of war we're currently equipped to fight. Unfortunately, it's not the right kind of war anymore, if it ever was.

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

Open Secrets Wrote:That leaves the parts of NC that are typically conservative (much of the Piedmont, the Mountain region, and most areas in between), that have terrible education. I don't know anything about Atlanta, but I can tell you, without a doubt, that North Carolina is a state that directly contradicts your post.

Quote:That's not fair to say... For example, North Carolina consistently rates in the bottom 5 of states in terms of test scores and overall education. I believe last year it was 48th out of 50. North Carolina is also one of the few states that almost always votes for a GOP president (e.g. Bob Dole).

And NC has had democratic governors for 16 of the last 20 years. Governors and state legislatures, also controlled by Dems for much of the last 20 years, are more responsible for the education in NC than the president.

Quote:However, typically liberal parts of NC, like the Triangle and Charlotte, have some of the most thriving public high schools in the country (Chapel Hill HS, East Chapel Hill HS, Meyers Park).

You're not serious are you? Charlotte-Meck school district is an absolute joke. I should know, I live here. And Meyers Park high school is in the most affluent area of Charlotte. Of course it's a thriving school, all the rich kids go there. You can go to any school district in the country and pick out one or two high schools that are doing well just by going to the affluent areas.

NC fits right in with Kev's point, primarily b/c we've had liberal democratic governors for decades. We still rank in the bottom of the nation in test scores.

a) Responding to the first part of your post, my point was not that the Republican or Democratic leaders of education or good or bad, it was that it is obvious that the parts of North Carolina that are typically seen as conservative are also the places where education is absolutely abysmal. Of course the democrats in charge, like the State Superintendent, are not helping NC to thrive, but there are deeper rooted issues at work there. For example, many rural kids in North Carolina only want to be farmers or work vocational jobs for the rest of their lives (which is great), and don't value a formal education.

b) I'm going to give you a chance to take back the comment about "You can go to any school district in the country and pick out one or two high schools that are doing well just by going to the affluent areas." Because if you have left Charlotte and been most anywhere else in NC, you would know that what you said is blatantly not true.

Quote:It gets really old seeing the word "liberal" used like a curse word every time some guy on the right side of the aisle has someone disagree with him.&nbsp;

Liberals by their actions have made the term akin to a curse word.

Quote:Nobody called Bush Hitler.&nbsp; They said that some of the things he was doing were SIMILAR to what was done in 1932 Germany.

The explaination is laughable. Putting a picture of Bush up next to Hitler is likening him to Hitler. It never ceases to amaze me the atrocious things you liberals will try and defend. If republican's ran a picture of Kerry next to Stalin and likend some of his proposals to Stalin's you liberals would go nuts and you know it.

Quote:Bush's campaign tried to smear Kerry on his Vietnam service almost a year ago.

Can you provide some evidence for this assertion?

Quote: that Kerry keeps attacking him on 30 year old service records that shouldn't mean anything.

I swear the ability of liberals to spin things to the point of out right fallicious arguments is truly a gift. Do they pull you guys aside in middle school and teach you how to do this stuff?

Bush has called Kerry's service honorable, that he should be proud of it and that his service was more honorable than Bush's because he was in harms way. Kerry refuses to have the moral fortitude to do the same. Why? Because he's LOSING, and losing big.

What you libs don't seem to be able to grasp is that the American people DON'T CARE what happend 30 years ago with regards to Bush. They know him from 4 years of being president. The only thing you guys are doing when you run these stupid ads that are based on forgeries (that's hilarious by the way) is preach to the choir of Bush haters, who are already voting for Kerry anyway.

Quote:Someone on Bush's side thought it meant enough to bring it up last spring, and thought the "explanations" that were given when he ran for governor of Texas and again for president would be enough.&nbsp;

Can you provide some proof for this assertion? Who exactly on Bush's side chose to talk about Bush's guard service, specificall who "brought it up" as you are claiming?

Quote:I'm tired of Iraq being called part of the war on terror.&nbsp; It is no such thing and never has been.

You are wrong and clealry lack a fundamental understanding of the war on terror.

Quote:Clues about defending a country?&nbsp; That's cute.

Actually it's not. I'd give anything if you liberals had a basic understanding of what it takes to defend this country. But by your comments above you clearly don't. In a post 9/11 world you liberals say, "We will defend America after we've been attacked." Conservatives say, " When we see a gathering threat, we're going to deal with it BEFORE it has a chance to harm us." YOu liberals are too spineless to take that stand because you're scared to death the French won't like it.

As for the rest of your comments about Bush's team, you haven't got a clue. I hope you'll forgive me if I don't turn on Bush's team of generals, PHD's and people with decades of experience in these matters based on the words of Karl on a messageboard. :rolleyes:

Quote:a) Responding to the first part of your post, my point was not that the Republican or Democratic leaders of education or good or bad, it was that it is obvious that the parts of North Carolina that are typically seen as conservative are also the places where education is absolutely abysmal.

Post Hoc Ergo Protor hoc. After the fact, therefore because of the fact. A very common logical fallacy in debate. You just made it.

Trying to pin the blame for poor educational standards on the political philosophy that is dominant in an area is quite simply ridiculous.

Quote:For example, many rural kids in North Carolina only want to be farmers or work vocational jobs for the rest of their lives (which is great), and don't value a formal education.

Excellent point and very much a cause for educational standards being low in rural areas. However, political philosophy has nothing to do with a kid wanting to be a farmer. You're trying to make an argument based on perception with exactly no evidence to back it up.

However, let me provide a few facts that refute your premise.

The annual state report card for NC that was released in August showed a few interesting things.

Brevard High School ranked 5th in the state for end of grade testing scores. I don't know if you've ever been to Brevard or not (I have, my sister taught there for 3 years and I lived near there) is very much rural. It's also very much conservative in it's views. Yet it ranks 5th in the state.

Three out of four schools in North Carolina met their academic goals in 2003-04, and 87 percent of Western North Carolina's 222 schools did. That's higher than the state average and it's in an area of NC that is decidedly conservative. I should know, I grew up there and lived there for 18 years. (I guess that answers your question on if I've ever been out of Charlotte)

Western NC also had 3 high schools in the top 25 in the state.

Quote:b) I'm going to give you a chance to take back the comment about "You can go to any school district in the country and pick out one or two high schools that are doing well just by going to the affluent areas." Because if you have left Charlotte and been most anywhere else in NC, you would know that what you said is blatantly not true.

How bout this. Why don't I give YOU the opportunity to prove me wrong? I'll readily admit that EVERY school district wouldn't hold true to that, simply because EVERY school district doesn't contain affluent areas. But I'd say it holds true for most. I can post stats to back up my claims, as I did above, can you?

Ninerfan1 Wrote:

Quote:It gets really old seeing the word "liberal" used like a curse word every time some guy on the right side of the aisle has someone disagree with him.&nbsp;

Liberals by their actions have made the term akin to a curse word.

Quote:Nobody called Bush Hitler.&nbsp; They said that some of the things he was doing were SIMILAR to what was done in 1932 Germany.

The explaination is laughable. Putting a picture of Bush up next to Hitler is likening him to Hitler. It never ceases to amaze me the atrocious things you liberals will try and defend. If republican's ran a picture of Kerry next to Stalin and likend some of his proposals to Stalin's you liberals would go nuts and you know it.

Quote:Bush's campaign tried to smear Kerry on his Vietnam service almost a year ago.

Can you provide some evidence for this assertion?

Quote: that Kerry keeps attacking him on 30 year old service records that shouldn't mean anything.

I swear the ability of liberals to spin things to the point of out right fallicious arguments is truly a gift. Do they pull you guys aside in middle school and teach you how to do this stuff?

Bush has called Kerry's service honorable, that he should be proud of it and that his service was more honorable than Bush's because he was in harms way. Kerry refuses to have the moral fortitude to do the same. Why? Because he's LOSING, and losing big.

What you libs don't seem to be able to grasp is that the American people DON'T CARE what happend 30 years ago with regards to Bush. They know him from 4 years of being president. The only thing you guys are doing when you run these stupid ads that are based on forgeries (that's hilarious by the way) is preach to the choir of Bush haters, who are already voting for Kerry anyway.

Quote:Someone on Bush's side thought it meant enough to bring it up last spring, and thought the "explanations" that were given when he ran for governor of Texas and again for president would be enough.&nbsp;

Can you provide some proof for this assertion? Who exactly on Bush's side chose to talk about Bush's guard service, specificall who "brought it up" as you are claiming?

Quote:I'm tired of Iraq being called part of the war on terror.&nbsp; It is no such thing and never has been.

You are wrong and clealry lack a fundamental understanding of the war on terror.

Quote:Clues about defending a country?&nbsp; That's cute.

Actually it's not. I'd give anything if you liberals had a basic understanding of what it takes to defend this country. But by your comments above you clearly don't. In a post 9/11 world you liberals say, "We will defend America after we've been attacked." Conservatives say, " When we see a gathering threat, we're going to deal with it BEFORE it has a chance to harm us." YOu liberals are too spineless to take that stand because you're scared to death the French won't like it.

As for the rest of your comments about Bush's team, you haven't got a clue. I hope you'll forgive me if I don't turn on Bush's team of generals, PHD's and people with decades of experience in these matters based on the words of Karl on a messageboard. :rolleyes:

And you'll forgive me if I just bail out of this whole thing. You've erroneously jumped to the conclusion that I'm a liberal, that I know nothing about what it takes to defend our country, that, as a liberal, I'm spineless. You've got a pile of unwarranted prejudices coming through, and I won't bother you again.

Karl Wrote:And you'll forgive me if I just bail out of this whole thing.  You've erroneously jumped to the conclusion that I'm a liberal, that I know nothing about what it takes to defend our country, that, as a liberal, I'm spineless.  You've got a pile of unwarranted prejudices coming through, and I won't bother you again.

Then why don't you correct me?

You see I don't know many conservatives, or "moderates" for that matter, that defend ads comparing Bush to Hitler, complain about the manner in which a conservative uses the term "liberal", claims Bush's campaign tried to smear Kerry's record in vietnam a year ago, defends Kerry attacking Bush's service 30 years ago etc.

Based on your comments exactly what is one to deduce you are?

If you're not a liberal you sure do act like one.

By all means correct me.

And as far as my unwarrented prejudices? I've got news for you. None of my prejudices against liberals are unwarrented.