Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:I guess hundreds of years ago Popes encouraged soldiers to take the Holy Land by force, but I cannot envision any Pope past or present  condoning the blowing up of busses, planes, hotels, etc.,  like  Islamic leaders condone and encourage.  Anyone hear the Pope say, "blow up a bus, get into heaven immediately"?

Quote:Edit: Look back, and you will see I have consistently refered to current Muslims, current Christians, and the current situation. I was not refering to things done a thousand years ago by either Christians or Muslims.

Maybe you mean that, but you did use the word past, and that's what I took from it. I think if you took the church system that was in place during the crusades and plopped it into current times, then yes, the pope might condone blowing up busses. Though we really can't be sure.

And if you take the church system that is in place now and plopped it back into the middle ages, there probably would have been no crusades.

Which reinforces my point that the Church today is different from the Church of 1000 years ago. They used to burn witches at the stake in Salem, but they haven't done that for several years now. Theoretically transporting the Salem judges of then to now is a meaningless execrcise.

OptimisticOwl Wrote:

Bourgeois_Rage Wrote:

OptimisticOwl Wrote:I guess hundreds of years ago Popes encouraged soldiers to take the Holy Land by force, but I cannot envision any Pope past or present  condoning the blowing up of busses, planes, hotels, etc.,  like  Islamic leaders condone and encourage.  Anyone hear the Pope say, "blow up a bus, get into heaven immediately"?

Quote:Edit: Look back, and you will see I have consistently refered to current Muslims, current Christians, and the current situation. I was not refering to things done a thousand years ago by either Christians or Muslims.

Maybe you mean that, but you did use the word past, and that's what I took from it. I think if you took the church system that was in place during the crusades and plopped it into current times, then yes, the pope might condone blowing up busses. Though we really can't be sure.

And if you take the church system that is in place now and plopped it back into the middle ages, there probably would have been no crusades.

Which reinforces my point that the Church today is different from the Church of 1000 years ago. They used to burn witches at the stake in Salem, but they haven't done that for several years now. Theoretically transporting the Salem judges of then to now is a meaningless execrcise.

Fine I agree, I was just pointing out that you used the word past, so that's why someone may have made the mistake of assuming you might be talking about the past.

The point is religion in the wrong hands can be used to do some stupid stuff. I don't care what religion it is.

I also think Germany makes a nice parallel. Sure it's not exact, but it is similar. Something else that must be taken into accout is that these nations in the mid-east are run by the Islam religion to a degree.

I still think the problem is not religion in, of itself, but the people who are in charge of it and how they manipulate the population.

Evidently I have offended some with the title of this thread. Since I honestly do not know that much about Islam, I need to ask a question. Does the Quaran instruct muslims to kill the infidel? Any information on this would be helpful.

Thanks

GrayBeard Wrote:Evidently I have offended some with the title of this thread. Since I honestly do not know that much about Islam, I need to ask a question. Does the Quaran instruct muslims to kill the infidel? Any information on this would be helpful.

Thanks

Yes. Sura 2:187-189

GrayBeard Wrote:Evidently I have offended some with the title of this thread.  Since I honestly do not know that much about Islam, I need to ask a question.  Does the Quaran instruct muslims to kill the infidel?  Any information on this would be helpful.

Thanks

I'm not offended, I just disagree with some of the statements you make, which is fine. I also completely understand the perspective you are coming from. I also don't expect you to change your mind because I have posted in response.

If you are looking for an interesting resource, though you may not like it, I recommend <a href='http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/' target='_blank'>The Skeptics Annotated Quran</a>. They have handy links to all the quotes in the Koran that advocate violence, contradictions, and really bizarre stuff. The reason I think you might not like it, is because they do the same thing with the bible. Also, I have noticed that some of their quotes are taken out of context, so you need to read the whole passage, not just the part they decide to quote and site as a contradiction.

Seems to me that the only real peace lovin religion out there is Hinduism... As least those dudes have the balls to light THEMSELVES on fire...and not recruit 18 year old men to do thy bidding just to gain personal power....which, lets face it...is half of it.