The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

This is really a thought provoking thread and I thank you for bring it up. The post here are really good and right on. I do not have a lot new to add. This has be said before but deserves repeating. The March Madness of this year shows us more than ever how difficult it is to play in the Elite Eight. Even the big boys must be better than good. They all require a little or maybe a lot of luck. We were good but we were lucky and can not expect to be there again. Having said all that, Getting to the dance every 3 to 4 years is plausible. That is hard enough. Gonzaga is by far the best performing mid major in the last decade. They are not going to let up, but I will be very surprised if they reach the Elite Eight again anytime soon.

We are now getting some 3 star recruits and that is a big plus for a mid. We need to continue the recruitment level. As soon as we allow that to subside, we will have an almost impossible task of getting that back again. KSU BB recruiting used to be the worst in the conference. It is now leading the way and that is where success is. Look at all the great underclassmen in the final four. (I could add, look at all the mediocre coaching like Roy Williams)

Even big bad Kansas never seems to be able to get it done. Ha.

Correct tho. Elite 8s are extremely hard to get to. Wisconsin couldn't do it as a 2 seed. How could mid majors expect to do it consistently as a 10 and below. We saw what happened with Butler and Southern. With a couple easier early games, they made S16 appearances.

I would be ecstatic if Kent would make an NCAA 2 of every 4 years. In those appearances winning 1 game. Maybe every 4 years advancing to a sweet 16.

That would without a doubt put Kent in the Gonzaga, Southern Illinois and Creighton class and make them a national name, including Ohio.

The Flash Wrote:I surmize that the reason is that Kent State historically has never been many student's first choice of school. It's a safety school. Many kids go there because they have to not because they want to. Many parents wouldn't let their kids go there unless their grades were awful in the 1970s and 1980s due to the misperceptions brought on by May 4. There is very little pride in Kent State. Many alumni are still apologetic for going there and latch on to OSU to hide their Kent background.

Your statement might be right for many students but I know of one KSU alumnus who chose Kent State over the University of Chicago even after he was offered an academic scholarship by the latter. He was in the Honors Program during the mid to late 70s and attended medical school at Ohio State. Perhaps he didn

THINGS ARE GOOD!
It seems like ever since the Elite 8, Kent fans have been coparing ourselves aginst the 2002 season. (myself included) Well, just to be a little realistic, that may never happen again. Going to exciting games at the Q, watching us win big games, watching us win 20 games is successful for us. I don't look at a season's success as how far in the NCAA Tournament we go, but by getting to the tournament, by winning 20 games, by simply being tough. We will never be a big time basketball school, because we just aren't made out to be that. For instance, Ohio State can fill up athletic complexes because people actually go there because they know of their sports teams. Not so much here. Applicats actually went up at Ohio State this year, attributed to the National Championship.
Lets stop being unrealistic. We have a good basketball team. Soon we will have a good football team. We have enjoyed some awsome games at both sports this past year.

Flashs Wrote:Even big bad Kansas never seems to be able to get it done. Ha.

Correct tho. Elite 8s are extremely hard to get to. Wisconsin couldn't do it as a 2 seed. How could mid majors expect to do it consistently as a 10 and below. We saw what happened with Butler and Southern. With a couple easier early games, they made S16 appearances.

I would be ecstatic if Kent would make an NCAA 2 of every 4 years. In those appearances winning 1 game. Maybe every 4 years advancing to a sweet 16.

That would without a doubt put Kent in the Gonzaga, Southern Illinois and Creighton class and make them a national name, including Ohio.

fair stament , that would be a resonable goal that could be reached.......but i just dont think we are close to doing that , do you? hey maybe next year.....

Sure I think they are close. Akron was not a good match up for Kent this year but I think Miami would have been. Point being, with a few things going a little differently, Kent would have been capable of making the tournament again this year. That would have been 2 NCAA's in a row. Next year their team should be MAC East favorites and they should have as good of a chance as they have had recently to dance. That would be 2 of 3.

As far as winning games in the tourny. I think they were good enough to have won one last year. Pitt was probably the worst matchup we could have drawn other than G-Town. Just looking at the other 12 seeds, if we get replaced with Montana and play Nevada, we could have pulled that upset.

Flashs Wrote:As far as winning games in the tourny. I think they were good enough to have won one last year. Pitt was probably the worst matchup we could have drawn other than G-Town. Just looking at the other 12 seeds, if we get replaced with Montana and play Nevada, we could have pulled that upset.

Thats the hard part is being matched right. In 02 we were matched well, eventhough we deserved it. But with the way things are going for the confrence now, when will a MAC representitive have a decent seed again?

If you have a good team the best place to be is No. 12 or 13. That way you play 4 and then 5 and have a reasonable chance of making the sweet 16. Those teams are good but usually beatable. The 2002 run was even more amazing to me because we were a number 10. That obviously makes the first game a little easier but our ability to beat the number 2 and then number 3 seed still amazes me today.

We would all like to have more postseason wins in recent years because we have had so much regular season success. But I don't see any reason why this can't be sustained nor do I see any reason to think that this isn't a successful run.

KSU may not keep winning 20 games, but I don't see why they can't usually finish in the top half and have a chance to win the MAC on a regular basis. Making six MAC finals in the last 9 years is pretty good.

Would I like another Elite 8 run or just a few notable non-conference wins on a year-to-year basis, sure, but I try not to get too spoiled.

AlphaFlash Wrote:Thats the hard part is being matched right. In 02 we were matched well, eventhough we deserved it. But with the way things are going for the confrence now, when will a MAC representitive have a decent seed again?

......in 2002 we were really a top 15 team in the country is just we got screwd again by polls ,the proof is in the final regular season AP poll of the 2001- 2002 season it had 3 teams we beat in the tour. OKLA. ST.was # 17....ALABAMA # 8........PITT. # 9 WE ADVANCE TO THE ELITE by winning the last 2 games against 2 top 10 teams and clearly outplaying them it wasn't one of those lucky last second shots....point is we did not get easy matches ,this is why i just think that team was a big time team unfortunately indiana hit just about every 3 pointer they put up.....i got all those games on vhs ,i think is time to see them again... lmfao

History says staying on top in the MAC is hard to do. Kent State has had a golden decade for sure. Very hard to maintain at the level for so long.

Elite Eight is something very special. Very hard to compare the 1964 elite Eight Ohio team with the 2002 Kent State team. Different era and difference selection rules. Back then they were no at-large bids or conference tournaments. Every conference was a one bid league so this wasn't a team that got lucky winning a conference tournament on a fluke shot. There were invites like the big independents like Marquette, Notre Dame, but no ACC 6th place teams like today. You got the cream of the crop. No Arkansas or Stanford's to debate.

The real story of 1964 was race. Ohio was an early pioneer having 3 black starters that season. If you watched the movie "Glory Road" this was one year earlier than the famed 1965 National champion Texas Western team. Ohio drew All-white Louisville in the opening round and then all white Kentucky with Adolph Rupp in the sweet 16. Bobcats won over the segregated Ky schools and met Michigan in the elite eight. Michigan had Cazzie Russell. He was one of the greatest players in college basketball and later was a star for the New York Knicks. Bobcats played Michigan close, but Russell was the difference.

Kent State having future NFL star Antonio Gates will be what people remember from the 2002 team. What a player.

Good post, OUBOBCATJOHN. There were only 25 teams in the tournament back then, and teams were placed in regionals based on geographical location, as much as was possible. If memory serves me well (I suppose I could do some research, but I'm lazy), 16 conferences, the MAC included, had automatic bids. The only conference I recall using a tournament to determine their bid was the SEC, but I don't recall if even they did that in 1964. I wasn't aware that Louisville was all-white in 1964. Three black starters was unusual in 1964, and Texas-Western two years later (1966, not 1965. UCLA won in 1965) was the first team to start five blacks in a championship team. But, to call OU in 1964 an early pioneer may be a slight stretch. In the mid-50's the University of San Franciso won a championship with 3 black starters and four playing. Cincinnati won in 1962 with four black starters, as did Loyola of Chicago the following year. In that 1963 game, at one point Loyola had five on the floor at one time. It is believed that earlier that season they became the first large school in NCAA history to start five blacks. I don't know much about the racial history of the MAC, but the Big Ten was de facto segregated until 1947, I think. Kentucky didn't have their first black player until 1970. All this of course, has drifted far from Burden's original post, but I find basketball history fascinating, and enjoyed your post. Sometimes I can hardly believe how much the college game has changed in my own lifetime.

Interesting topics, for sure. I saw an interview with John Wooden on FSN this morning, and he mentioned that his 1947 team (Indiana State I believe) had one black reserve. When the NAIA extended an invitation to play in a post-season tournament with the condition that the team not include the black player, Wooden refused. An invitation was extended the following year, with the condition that the black player could play, but could not stay at the same hotel with the rest of the palyers. Wooden initially refused but it sounded like he ultimately accepted after NAACP encoragement.

Sorry period in our nation's history, Delflash. One time in the early 1960's Mississippi State literally had to sneak out of the state to play their first game in the NCAA tournament, as the Governor had forbidden them to play the game because there would be black opponents. I think it would be safe to say that now there is not a Division I program in the nation that cares about the racial makeup of their team. But, long after de jure segregation had ended, there were still "understandings" in many places that the number of blacks would be resticted to a set number. There are more reasons than just the ending of prejudice to account for the increase in black players over the decades, but that is the main reason. I recalll reading that when Lew Alcindor was in HS (he was graduated in 1965) he was contacted by every school in the country. That was an absolute lie, as there were dozens of schools then that still barred blacks. Of course, had LeBron James wanted to play college basketball, every school would have taken him. Progress, I suppose.

Kent 76 Wrote:Sorry period in our nation's history, Delflash. One time in the early 1960's Mississippi State literally had to sneak out of the state to play their first game in the NCAA tournament, as the Governor had forbidden them to play the game because there would be black opponents. I think it would be safe to say that now there is not a Division I program in the nation that cares about the racial makeup of their team. But, long after de jure segregation had ended, there were still "understandings" in many places that the number of blacks would be resticted to a set number. There are more reasons than just the ending of prejudice to account for the increase in black players over the decades, but that is the main reason. I recalll reading that when Lew Alcindor was in HS (he was graduated in 1965) he was contacted by every school in the country. That was an absolute lie, as there were dozens of schools then that still barred blacks. Of course, had LeBron James wanted to play college basketball, every school would have taken him. Progress, I suppose.

..... amen kent76 ,thank god those days are mostly past, but we all must admit there still those closet racist out there, the silent ones, the ones that smile at a minority and shake their hands and turn around and become an expert on slurs , im sure you all know someone like that or maybe not , i can tell you i know some peaople like that and i have no use for that kind of scum..

Just a comment. Only the ACC would play a conference tournament back then. The winner of that tournament would get the bid. That is why the ACC tournament is such a big deal down there. Other leagues always sent the regular season champ. Of course when the NCAA started to allow all conferences more than one bid the remaining conferences started having tournaments hoping their regular season champ would lose thereby almost forcing the NCAA to give them two bids. Then they realized how much money the big conferences could make and presto we have todays system.

I just want to take the opportunity to remind everyone that athletics is one of Kent

Agree NGF. I always felt that Kent State was underrated, both as a school and a campus, and that many potential recruits should be impressed. I once transferred to Ohio State (for reasons not important here), and transferred back to Kent in a week! I liked Kent so much better than OSU, for many reasons.