The unofficial online home for fans of the Kent State University Golden Flashes. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

I have been thinking about the recent posts and came to a conclusion. Do we really expect to have the Kent program get much better than it has been the last 9 years. Nine twenty win + seasons, one 30 win season, 2 regular season MAC championships (we probably could do better on that one), four MAC tourney championships, six MAC tournament championship games, 4 great bracketbuster games, 4 NIT appearances (3-4 record), 4 NCAA appearances (4-4 record, one elite 8 and one great team in 2002). I can't see it happening for the following reasons:
1. Not paying our coaches enough causing them to leave frequently. It's only a matter of time before Laing or his successor makes a mistake.
2. A gym not an arena.
3. Not a big enough fan base to justify an arena.
4. Lack of student support
5. No real media coverage. Just the bare minimum.
6. Inability to recruit good big players because of all of the above.

Kent will not get enough money to change all this. If the 2002 team could not get us a larger fan base, a new arena and the ability to attract better players and coaches what will? I am not being a pessimist here just a realist. All leagues go through ups and downs but if a year like 2002 (don't forget McLeod and BG, Tamar Slay and Marshall, etc. it wasn't all Kent that year) doesn't change any basics what will. There is a pecking order and the MAC is somewhere between 10-16 and that's the way it's going to be. I'm still not convinced the MVC really will stay in the top 5 conferences for long. We will have to wait a couple of years but I wouldn't be suprised if they go back to between 7-12 like they have been in the past. Let's just try to keep this 9 year run going at the same level.

Burden, you summed up the situation quite nicely.

I'm just glad it happened while I was there.

Great work guys, everyone is on the same page with this. Add me and ditto it happened while I am still alive. After 30 years, I deserved it.

Many of us questioned what our athletic administration would do with a once in a life time opportunity. We now know that it was nothing. It is not all their fault. At many schools, the fans and alumni would have rallied on their own to keep it going. Face it, we really do get what we deserve and probably better.

OTOH, some ADs, particularly those looking at their present job as a stepping stone, would have pumped this time for all it was worth. Then he would have been a Big Ten AD several years later for being a big time thinker.

Thank God, we have been lucky to have the experience that we have had.

I agree that, in retrospect, it would have been an incredible, if not impossible, task for Kent to have used the opportunity of the 2001 and 2002 seasons to really move up the basketball ladder, pretty much for the reasons mentioned by Burden. But what irked me is that (1) there doesn't seem to have been any effort to really try. I could be wrong, as I'm not privy to what went on behind the scene. And, (2) the impression I got is that many did not even want to. Again, this is just an impression and I could be greatly mistaken, but it seemed that many wanted the Elite 8 team to be a Cinderella story to be treasured in memory, like the Milan, Indiana, high school story (upon which the movie, "Hoosiers" was loosely based). I recall Terry Pluto's column the day after the 2002 Indiana loss. I was expecting some really good writing, but he just wrote the standard "how nice it is that once in a great while the little guy wins" story. I'm sure long-time knowledgeable fans do, but I'm not even so sure the typical fan even realized that Kent really WAS good enough to have gone that far, that the wins were only minor upsets, if even upsets at all. All this having been said, though, what Kent has sustained now for so long is sure better than anything in MAC history, and the school is to be applauded.

I hope I didn't come across a bit condescending by asking members of this board if they really understand how difficult it is getting to the Elite Eight. But from the responses of my post, it didn't seem like I did.

The points made on this thread are right on. Our appearance in the 2002 Elite Eight may be a once in a life time experience. I think making it again to the Sweet 16 is possible but it will take an incredible performance.

In November of 2002, one poster had stated that he was confident that the Flashes could make the Sweet 16 with the team that we had. I believe the statement was made after watching the team at Midnight Madness. I can appreciate having confidence in your team but in retrospect the statement was way too premature because the Flashes didn't even win the MAC that season. I don't even remember who made the statement at the time and it actually doesn't matter. What does matter is that everyone understand and appreciate what the 2001/2002 Flashes were able to accomplish and realize that it doesn't come along very often.

kent 76 you are very right. Most people think Kent just got lucky. I think at worst they were 2 point underdogs (until the Indiana game where they were 5 or 6 point dogs). They were even favored against Oklahoma State.
That's where the lack of media coverage hurt. Nobody knew it was happening until the Saturday of the elite eight game and then of course we fell behind early and by a lot and many people tuned out. After all it was Saturday evening! The only slight disagreement with you is that the players and coaches did a fine job maintaining the tradition. The athletic department, the fans and students did nothing. Hell the first Akron radio commercial promoting a Kent game came this year, 5 years afterwards and it was for the women's team!!! Pathetic.

Also I remember Terry Plutos piece and it was his usual sappy everything is beautiful stuff. He did a lot to convince people it was a heavenly event and not the result of having good basketball players. As you can tell the whole thing makes me angry. I remember the New Years Eve game that year with all the strange fans in attendance coming from as far away as the Cleveland suburbs. I remember Cutley coming to Kent all the way from California because of our sucess. Then we failed to capitalize. It really is sad.

Making the Elite Eight IS a tremendous accomplishment, and very, very hard to do. I mean (obviously) only eight teams make it each year, out of scores of tremendous basketball teams. Only two MAC teams ever did it, and when OU did it in 1964 they "only" had to win two games, not three. I think what is somewhat disappointing to many of us hardcore, long-time fans, though, is that that 2002 win over Pitt was Kent's last win in post-season. Despite Kent's continued success, including this year, many of us hoped for a little more, perhaps unrealistically so?

burden Wrote:I have been thinking about the recent posts and came to a conclusion. Do we really expect to have the Kent program get much better than it has been the last 9 years......I can't see it happening for the following reasons:
1. Not paying our coaches enough causing them to leave frequently. It's only a matter of time before Laing or his successor makes a mistake.
2. A gym not an arena.
3. Not a big enough fan base to justify an arena.
4. Lack of student support
5. No real media coverage. Just the bare minimum.
6. Inability to recruit good big players because of all of the above.

Kent will not get enough money to change all this. .

you are right on ,if we keep doing what we have been doing we will keep getting what we been getting ,that's 20 wins a year, if we dont win the mac tour. maybe an nit trip.(that is no longer automatic for kent) and your right ,that is not so bad ...your point # 3 about the arena ,its the old chicken or the egg story ,will an arena bring more people out to enjoy a game or wait till the team is so good that people are standing outside the day before a game waiting for tickets (fat chance) and than build one..oh well, a gym will do and ill go and enjoy ,and i can always find a good seat for my friends ,thats verry positive ..if we moved to another level it would be too hard to get tickets ...i just would not like that...now im being sarcastic... lmfao

Don't blame the media...the old adage isn't always true "build it and they will come."

I didn't mean to blame the media. I meant to blame the Kent Athletic Department for not effectively using the media. No promotion what so ever.

The fact that any school has to "promote" an Elite Eight appearance is sad, very sad. The fact that Kent can't fill up a 5,000 seat arena with ticket prices that will get a fan into a high school game in Chicago is astonishing. The idea that fans don't come to the MACC because it's not an "arena" after driving around Portage County is, to be kind, not likely given the physical appearance of the area.

Maybe there is another answer. Maybe Kent State basketball is another victim of Northeast Ohio. Have so many people have left Northeast Ohio there aren't enough fans left to support alll of the choices? Cleveland is documented as the "poorest big city in America "and many may not have the modest disposable income to go to games at any place. Maybe as students at Kent work on average more than 20 hours a week sports are not their priority.

Silly? Perhaps. Just as silly as the idea a school has to "promote" an Elite Eight program now with nine straight twenty win seasons. I just wish Kent State was in a region where it could be appreciated. Trust me, Southern Illinois will not lift a finger to "promote" its' second Sweet Sixteen appearance in five years. It will fill up a not very nice arena on a regular basis. Some people get it, some people don't.

Sounds like you guys have had some problems. I know that if NIU went to the Elite Eight, the Convo would be filled with fans next season, kind of like what happened after the 2003 football campaign. At least we manage to average about 1,000 fans/game with one of the worst teams in college basketball. I do know one thing, and that is that the athletic dept. should take advantage of athletic success. NIU did with the football team, and now we're getting the academic training facility for athletes, indoor practice facility and stadium improvements on the horizon.

To get back to Burden's original point, "the same level" IS as good as it's going to get, for all the reasons posted on this topic, and other reasons posted many times before. I see only one way to get Kent basketball to a higher level, and that would be to join a significantly better basketball conference, I'm not saying that that COULD happen, or even that it SHOULD happen. I'm just saying that if we want Kent basketball to be even better than it's been, that is the only realistic way for it to happen.

I pointed out on a main board post that there is not a lot of support at Kent for anything. For the size of the alumni base, the endowment is pathetic. Sports support is pathetic. I surmize that the reason is that Kent State historically has never been many student's first choice of school. It's a safety school. Many kids go there because they have to not because they want to. Many parents wouldn't let their kids go there unless their grades were awful in the 1970s and 1980s due to the misperceptions brought on by May 4. There is very little pride in Kent State. Many alumni are still apologetic for going there and latch on to OSU to hide their Kent background.

Then, you add FF's point about the recession like circumstances in much of NE Ohio and it starts to add up. Also, don't forget the fact that Akron is now in the MAC and I think that plan backfired on Kent by dividing the attention in NE Ohio further by legitimizing the zips. I thought that was a bad move from the beginning. The rivalry was fine outside of a conference and the zips should have been left swining in the wind.

On the whole, Kent sports are irrelvant to the masses and will most likley stay that way regardless of promotion.

Sorry for the rambling points... only had a quick minute to post.

The Flash, I agree with everything you posted. Actually, it's a story in itself what success Kent basketball has had, despite all the obstacles. I think the prospect of Christian possibly leaving (although I doubt it will happen this year) is the least of the problems. In fact, it would only be a problem if the university really blows it in naming a succesor. To reiterate, I think Burden is right in that this is as good as it gets, given the status quo. As I posted previously, IF Kent State wants to take the basketball program to an even greater level, the only way I think that could happen would be to latch on to a better basketball conference. I'm not even sure if that is possible. Maybe it isn't. Maybe there are too many obstacles to doing even that. It's just a shame that a fine place like Kent State University happens to be located smack dab in the center of northeast Ohio.

Christian won't be leaving this year.

The MAC center was pretty full the entire year in 03 if I remember correctly. There were some low attend. games but mostly when classes were not in session. The fact that we did not get back to the NCAA really hurt attend in 04 and so forth.

KSU needs to decide whether it wants to be a big time program or whether it is concerned with the MAC making it big.

Gonzaga didn't make a name for itself by just winning 20 games a season. They won their conference for like 8 straight years + 20 wins against top level competition. Kent needs to continue to schedule well (even if it means traveling) and win some games. And also, as pointed out originally, win more regular season titles. Two titles will not cut it.

Flashs, you are right in that Kent needs to really schedule big, even if it means travelling even more. Maybe telling recruits who they can expect to be playing, and where, would help Kent recruit even better players. Lots of what I've been posting the last few days has been speculation, thinking out loud, as it were. But one thing I do know for sure is that being a member of the MAC doesn't help in recruiting in what should be its home base, northeast Ohio. I had one former Kent assistant tell me that the Kent program is more highly regarded outside Ohio than right at home. My own obsevations have been that the MAC is considered in Ohio, by all but the most knowledgeable fans, as even LOWER than it actually is! I'd be rich if I had a dollar for every time I heard someone refer to a high school athlete as, "He's a MAC player". Not just from fans, but from sportswriters, sports broadcasters and coaches. By "He's a MAC player" it is clearly meant that a player is just a bit better than NAIA, D II or D III. Oldfan1 always talks about size. Well, there's a senior-to-be at a school located about 35 miles south of Kent named Kenny Frease. He's 7' tall, and was even being recruited by Tubby Smith. It was noted Sunday that his likely choice will be Xavier, as it was the first "major" school to show interest. Xavier is considered by most to be a strong mid-major, but apparently in NE Ohio it is considered by at least one sportswriter and one very good prospect as "major", while Kent is not (nor should it be). Sorry about the length of this post, but I still see the only possible way for Kent to upgrade the men's basketball program would be to somehow find a way to enter a conference with a better basketball reputation. But, that is not probable, and maybe not even possible, so short of that, I again agree with Flashs.

The more I read the more depressed I get. I feel like I've lived through the glory days of the Roman Empire. However I am beginning to see Attila knocking on the door and the Dark Ages right around the corner.

No, Burden, things look pretty good. The Kent program has been in the upper third, at least, of D I basketball for a decade. We're just discussing how it may possiblybe even better. I would have to say that back about 1995, what has transpired since late in the 1998 season has EXCEEDED the expectations of everyone. I doubt anyone ever dreamed that Kent would ever pull of what is has. There is always room for advancement, though. Jeeze, it would be nice if the NCAA would just have the will to find a way to force major programs to play AT mid-majors more than they now do. That alone would help matters. Imagine the kind of teams Kent could have beaten at home around 1999 though 2003, especially 2002?