I have to say the biggest factor is exposure. We have some great teams that nobody outside of our current footprint ever hears about.

-Dan

I vote for a melange of all four.

Oddball Wrote:I vote for a melange of all four.

That's a cop out. One of them has to have even a slightly greater effect than the others.

-Dan

In my opinion, in football at least, we have yet to consistantly prove how good we are. When we all can recite dates of the days we beat one of the BCS school as if they were momentous moments in time we relagate ourselves publically to the position of extreme underdog. We need a "body of work" against the big boys in order to show up on the national radar. A day where a win over Michigan would be a great upset rather than a life changing moment.

THe other reason I think is the reality that we are, in fact, small. THe MAC average crowd is a good sampling of the small communities that we often represent. Compare our homes (DeKAlb, Ypsilanti, Akron...etc...) with those of CUSA (rice=houston, UH=houston, UTEP=El Paso, etc....) We aren't large in public perception because we represent far less public.

THats my opinion....this morning....before coffee...

Of course it does, and I wasn't trying to cop out...I merely didn't read your entire post before spouting off.

I'll change to exposure conference-wide, although I think that Toledo, BG, and Miami have gotten a lot of it recently, with NIU right behind. The rest of the conference hasn't gotten nearly as much. This is for football, obviously. Hoops would be the same problem, with different schools excepted.

I'm down with O.P.P. (Other People's Perception.)

If we win, it's a fluke. If we get beat it's because we're in the MAC. Some of this is brought upon by ourselves. Take last year's dismal OOC showing in football for an example.

The perception is changing albeit slowly. I'm reminded of an experience I had last year about this time. I was in TX and made dinner for a couple of Tx A&M grads (friends), and a UT grad (a Friend of Wife) whom I had just met. The UT grad asked me where I was from. "Ohio".
Him: "Oh, Big Ten fan, eh?"
Me: "No. MAC"
There was about 10 seconds of very awkward silence with both UT grad and one A&M grad starting at me blinking. "oh, well, the MAC is up and coming," said the UT grad.

Me: "We're already there."

It was then that the A&M grad admitted that he made a lot of money off of BG and Miami because he would pick them in the office pool. He actually started following BG a little more than he would have previously.

I get to have more fun next Friday when we all revisit for another dinner.

Rightupinthere Wrote:I'm down with O.P.P. (Other People's Perception.)

If we win, it's a fluke. If we get beat it's because we're in the MAC. Some of this is brought upon by ourselves. Take last year's dismal OOC showing in football for an example.

The perception is changing albeit slowly. I'm reminded of an experience I had last year about this time. I was in TX and made dinner for a couple of Tx A&M grads (friends), and a UT grad (a Friend of Wife) whom I had just met. The UT grad asked me where I was from. "Ohio".
Him: "Oh, Big Ten fan, eh?"
Me: "No. MAC"
There was about 10 seconds of very awkward silence with both UT grad and one A&M grad starting at me blinking. "oh, well, the MAC is up and coming," said the UT grad.

Me: "We're already there."

It was then that the A&M grad admitted that he made a lot of money off of BG and Miami because he would pick them in the office pool. He actually started following BG a little more than he would have previously.

I get to have more fun next Friday when we all revisit for another dinner.

When you say UT, do you mean Texas? Around here, UT is Toledo. :D

rocketfootball Wrote:When you say UT, do you mean Texas? Around here, UT is Toledo. :D

The UT that wears orange. :D

Rightupinthere Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:When you say UT, do you mean Texas?  Around here, UT is Toledo.  :D

The UT that wears orange. :D

What a repugnant thought!

-Dan

Photodan Wrote:

Rightupinthere Wrote:

rocketfootball Wrote:When you say UT, do you mean Texas?  Around here, UT is Toledo.  :D

The UT that wears orange. :D

What a repugnant thought!

-Dan

Only a trip to Austin can change your mind about that. Even then you have to keep repeating. "It's a burnt orange" as you watch the co-eds parade up and down Sixth Street. :bluethumb:

We gotta consistently win our OOC games. That is what builds a conference rep.

Reno79 Wrote:We gotta consistently win our OOC games. That is what builds a conference rep.

It does, but considering that it mostly has to be done on the road, sometimes it isn't as easy as we'd like.

I chose "other" because I think that for football, general statements don't work for the MAC. The year to year and top to bottom differences in MAC teams, IMO, is dramatic. To answer the question "What's holding us back?", I would say about 2/3 of the confrence.

UT, NIU, Miami, BG, and Marshall have been in recent years, IMO, able to compete with anyone in the country. They are the top teams in the confrence. Two years ago, I think Miami could have played in any confrence and finished near the top. This last season though, I don't think the top teams were as good, despite the fact we got a record number of bowls.

From top to bottom there is a huge difference in the performance in this confrence. I honestly didn't give any of the remaining 9 schools in the confrence, and yes this includes Akron, much of a chance when it comes to playing the top teams. Each year the best MAC team would be able to compete in a BCS confrence where the worst MAC team is just happy to win a game against a DI-AA team.

So what is holding the MAC back isn't the good teams, it's the crappy teams that out number them 2 to 1. Until the MAC no longer has multiple teams in the bottom 10, and a mediocre team can come up with an upset against a middle of the pack BCS school, we will continue to be looked at as a pushover confrence. I sure hope Akron will do it's part in changing the perception over the next few years.

I think the main factor holding back the MAC is simply the difficulty in changing long engrained attitudes. However, we're in luck here because of the greatly increased exposure of the MAC on TV.

If the MAC can continue to produce marquee players and continue to look better on TV, then a change in perception could come fairly quickly.

Has the MAC ever received the pre-season publicity that it has this year with marquee players such as Wolfe, Gradkowski, and Jacobs?

These guys will be seen several times on national or regional TV.

Photodan Wrote:I have to say the biggest factor is exposure. We have some great teams that nobody outside of our current footprint ever hears about.

-Dan

Dude what are you talking about? The MAC gets a lot of exposure, yes maybe not as much as other confrences but face the fact, we have teams like Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Central Florida, Central (MI), and now Temple that make our confrence look like crap(No offense or anything) I mean if someone was to look at our MAC and maybe just pick one team and they pick one of thoses, then they'll think the MAC sucks because those school suck at sports(Yes I know Buffalo went to the MAC B-ball championship but still only one year of that) Our confrence may be under-rated but if you think about it deeply...look who we have. Now I know we have some great teams too as in Toledo, BG, NIU, Miami (OH) and some others but thats not good enough if we want some real time appriciateness. Toledo got on T.V. 6 times this year, and 5 bowl teams from the MAC were on T.V. and I'm sure other MAC teams had plenty of T.V. time. So I think losing Marshall was a very bad loss because they were tremoundous, but I'm totally happy CFU is leaving because they suck. Thats all I'm going to type now.

-Chris

Read the second one. Not the first! Sorry I didnt mean to click send on the first one.

chris4rockets Wrote:

Photodan Wrote:I have to say the biggest factor is exposure. We have some great teams that nobody outside of our current footprint ever hears about.

-Dan

Dude what are you talking about? The MAC gets a lot of exposure, yes maybe not as much as other confrences but face the fact, we have teams like Buffalo, Eastern Michigan, Central Florida, Central (MI), and now Temple that make our confrence look like crap(No offense or anything) I mean if someone was to look at our MAC and maybe just pick one team and they pick one of thoses, then they'll think the MAC sucks because those school suck at sports(Yes I know Buffalo went to the MAC B-ball championship but still only one year of that) Our confrence may be under-rated but if you think about it deeply...look who we have. Now I know we have some great teams too as in Toledo, BG, NIU, Miami (OH) and some others but thats not good enough if we want some real time appriciateness. Toledo got on T.V. 6 times this year, and 5 bowl teams from the MAC were on T.V. and I'm sure other MAC teams had plenty of T.V. time. So I think losing Marshall was a very bad loss because they were tremoundous, but I'm totally happy CFU is leaving because they suck. Thats all I'm going to type now.

-Chris

Until you rebut my assertion (that we don't get enough exposure) with more than, "The MAC gets a lot..." and "I'm sure other MAC teams had plenty of T.V. time.", I'm afraid I can't even take it seriously. Show some supporting data.

I know we were on TV seven times last year but that is far from normal. It's what I call a good start.

-Dan

chris4rockets Wrote:but I'm totally happy CFU is leaving because they suck.

-Chris

We'll see who has more success in the next 6 years.

Quite a mouth you have.

The Knight Time Wrote:

chris4rockets Wrote:but I'm totally happy CFU is leaving because they suck.

-Chris

We'll see who has more success in the next 6 years.

Quite a mouth you have.

I personally disagree that CFU sucks.

I have seen them in their "glory days".

Who will have more success in 6 years? Who knows? As soon as you get rid of O'Leary you'll be well on your way.

The Knight Time Wrote:

chris4rockets Wrote:but I'm totally happy CFU is leaving because they suck.

-Chris

We'll see who has more success in the next 6 years.

Quite a mouth you have.

I'm sorry, but if you think UCF will definitely have more success than Toledo over the next 6 years you've got to be dreaming.

UCF was 0-11 last year as a MAC school. You've upgraded from the soft MAC East to the much stronger CUSA East (Memphis, Southern Miss, UAB, Marshall, East Carolina). Anybody in their right mind would have to think 6-5 next year for UCF would be a major accomplishment. That is year 1. Then your going to have to average 9-10 wins over the 5 seasons after that. Could it be done.....If O'Leary is the complete genius you say he is. Is it likely? Hell no.

Toledo isn't going anywhere. Look at their track record. Over the last 10 seasons they've averaged 8+ wins a year. They are the best financially supported program in the MAC as well.