https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

1. I don't expect the number for 2025 to be that drastic to 2024's, although there might be a slight decrease due to political happenings in Washington.

2. It's not the end-all, be-all list but the Super 2 and conferences below them will carefully look at them to see how a specific school can fill whatever particular needs they might have at a particular time.

3. Related, there's more ammunition for why schools like Virginia, UNC, Miami and even Georgia Tech would be looked at, whether any of them gets picked up by one of the Super 2 or not. Pitt should be under consideration, but they have a Penn State problem.

Interesting the jump for SUNY Albany, and that Nebraska and Nebraska Medical are no longer being listed separately. Are there any rumors about SUNY Albany wanting to move up to the FBS level?

FBS universities with > $1 billion NSF R&D expenditures in FY2024

4 Michigan - B1G
5 Wisconsin - B1G
6 UCLA - B1G
8 Washington - B1G
9 Stanford - ACC
11 UNC - ACC
12 Ohio State - B1G
13 Duke - ACC
14 Maryland- B1G
15 Georgia Tech - ACC
17 Pitt - ACC
21 Minnesota - B1G
22 Texas A&M - SEC
24 Vanderbilt - SEC
25 Penn State - B1G
26 Florida - SEC
27 USC - B1G
31 Texas - SEC
32 Cal - ACC
35 Arizona - B12
37 ASU - B12


Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  FBS universities with > $1 billion NSF R&D expenditures in FY2024

4 Michigan - B1G
5 Wisconsin - B1G
6 UCLA - B1G
8 Washington - B1G
9 Stanford - ACC
11 UNC - ACC
12 Ohio State - B1G
13 Duke - ACC
14 Maryland- B1G
15 Georgia Tech - ACC
17 Pitt - ACC
21 Minnesota - B1G
22 Texas A&M - SEC
24 Vanderbilt - SEC
25 Penn State - B1G
26 Florida - SEC
27 USC - B1G
31 Texas - SEC
32 Cal - ACC
35 Arizona - B12
37 ASU - B12


Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

Med schools matter

Another example of how there’s not really a whole lot of difference between these conferences.

Future Pac:

#76 Colorado State $466 million
#80 Utah State $451 million
#86 Washington State $403 million
#94 Oregon State $372 million
#147 San Diego State $182 million
#154 Texas State $165 million
#226 Boise State $58 million
#336 Fresno State $14 million
#698 Gonzaga $1 million

Future MWC:

#36 UC Davis $1,006 million
#92 Hawaii $376 million
#97 New Mexico $355 million
#144 Nevada $194 million
#152 Wyoming $167 million
#157 UTEP $158 million
#172 UNLV $118 million
#187 San Jose State $88 million
#233 Air Force $53 million
#259 NIU $34 million
Not listed GCU

(12-29-2025 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Another example of how there’s not really a whole lot of difference between these conferences.

Future Pac:

#76 Colorado State $466 million
#80 Utah State $451 million
#86 Washington State $403 million
#94 Oregon State $372 million
#147 San Diego State $182 million
#154 Texas State $165 million
#226 Boise State $58 million
#336 Fresno State $14 million
#698 Gonzaga $1 million

Future MWC:

#36 UC Davis $1,006 million
#92 Hawaii $376 million
#97 New Mexico $355 million
#144 Nevada $194 million
#152 Wyoming $167 million
#157 UTEP $158 million
#172 UNLV $118 million
#187 San Jose State $88 million
#233 Air Force $53 million
#259 NIU $34 million
Not listed GCU

UC Davis is ofc an extreme outlier.

I’m impressed to see Hawaii so high on the list.

(12-29-2025 11:55 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(12-29-2025 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Another example of how there’s not really a whole lot of difference between these conferences.

Future Pac:

#76 Colorado State $466 million
#80 Utah State $451 million
#86 Washington State $403 million
#94 Oregon State $372 million
#147 San Diego State $182 million
#154 Texas State $165 million
#226 Boise State $58 million
#336 Fresno State $14 million
#698 Gonzaga $1 million

Future MWC:

#36 UC Davis $1,006 million
#92 Hawaii $376 million
#97 New Mexico $355 million
#144 Nevada $194 million
#152 Wyoming $167 million
#157 UTEP $158 million
#172 UNLV $118 million
#187 San Jose State $88 million
#233 Air Force $53 million
#259 NIU $34 million
Not listed GCU

UC Davis is ofc an extreme outlier.

I’m impressed to see Hawaii so high on the list.

Yep, Davis is in another class, but it’s interesting to see most of the rest across both conferences in the 50-250 (out of 925) range.

Hawaii’s been hovering in the 75-105 range over the past decade. It’s been an R1 for a long time, in part due to sponsoring an accredited four-year medical school since 1973.

Here are a few others of interest to western realignment followers:

#123 Montana State $258 million
#140 North Dakota State $200 million
#161 Montana $144 million
#162 New Mexico State $143 million
#191 South Dakota State $82 million
#262 Sacramento State $34 million
#291 Tarleton State $25 million

If I’m an MWC president being asked to approve new conference additions, I’m going to view the Montanas and NDSU as peers. Sacramento State and Tarleton State, not so much.

(12-29-2025 05:14 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  https://ncsesdata.nsf.gov/profiles/site?...ce&ds=herd

1. I don't expect the number for 2025 to be that drastic to 2024's, although there might be a slight decrease due to political happenings in Washington.

2. It's not the end-all, be-all list but the Super 2 and conferences below them will carefully look at them to see how a specific school can fill whatever particular needs they might have at a particular time.

3. Related, there's more ammunition for why schools like Virginia, UNC, Miami and even Georgia Tech would be looked at, whether any of them gets picked up by one of the Super 2 or not. Pitt should be under consideration, but they have a Penn State problem.

Interesting the jump for SUNY Albany, and that Nebraska and Nebraska Medical are no longer being listed separately. Are there any rumors about SUNY Albany wanting to move up to the FBS level?

Its not a popular opinion within the fanbase and probably even less popular outside of the state but having Pitt in-conference would be a major boost to Penn State athletics in my opinion. Not having a true mutually exclusive rivalry has hurt the program long-term. Taking only Penn State versus taking, possibly, Clemson to go with USC, is the epitome of Big Ten versus SEC strategy and I think its clear which one has been winning the past 30 years, regardless of on the field results.

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  FBS universities with > $1 billion NSF R&D expenditures in FY2024

4 Michigan - B1G
5 Wisconsin - B1G
6 UCLA - B1G
8 Washington - B1G
9 Stanford - ACC
11 UNC - ACC
12 Ohio State - B1G
13 Duke - ACC
14 Maryland- B1G
15 Georgia Tech - ACC
17 Pitt - ACC
21 Minnesota - B1G
22 Texas A&M - SEC
24 Vanderbilt - SEC
25 Penn State - B1G
26 Florida - SEC
27 USC - B1G
31 Texas - SEC
32 Cal - ACC
35 Arizona - B12
37 ASU - B12


Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

The ACC might be open to swap Stanford and Cal (20.5 avg. ranking) for a couple of east coast teams Penn State & Maryland (19.5 avg. ranking).
It would ease travel for both conferences.

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

Stanford drama and ego is a fit for a Broadway stage.

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  ....

Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

The pair look good in that conference, yes. They would work as force multipliers for UCLA and Southern Cal, Oregon and Washington.

(12-29-2025 05:14 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Interesting the jump for SUNY Albany, and that Nebraska and Nebraska Medical are no longer being listed separately. Are there any rumors about SUNY Albany wanting to move up to the FBS level?

The jump is due to the NANO research college that was first developed within UAlbany, coming back home. It was seperated in 2014 for more autonamy but the state just brought it back under university control. So just righting a wrong, no rumors of FBS.

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  FBS universities with > $1 billion NSF R&D expenditures in FY2024

4 Michigan - B1G
5 Wisconsin - B1G
6 UCLA - B1G
8 Washington - B1G
9 Stanford - ACC
11 UNC - ACC
12 Ohio State - B1G
13 Duke - ACC
14 Maryland- B1G
15 Georgia Tech - ACC
17 Pitt - ACC
21 Minnesota - B1G
22 Texas A&M - SEC
24 Vanderbilt - SEC
25 Penn State - B1G
26 Florida - SEC
27 USC - B1G
31 Texas - SEC
32 Cal - ACC
35 Arizona - B12
37 ASU - B12


Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

This list is missing Northwestern at #28

(12-29-2025 11:13 PM)Wahoowa84 Wrote:  FBS universities with > $1 billion NSF R&D expenditures in FY2024

4 Michigan - B1G
5 Wisconsin - B1G
6 UCLA - B1G
8 Washington - B1G
9 Stanford - ACC
11 UNC - ACC
12 Ohio State - B1G
13 Duke - ACC
14 Maryland- B1G
15 Georgia Tech - ACC
17 Pitt - ACC
21 Minnesota - B1G
22 Texas A&M - SEC
24 Vanderbilt - SEC
25 Penn State - B1G
26 Florida - SEC
27 USC - B1G
31 Texas - SEC
32 Cal - ACC
35 Arizona - B12
37 ASU - B12


Stanford and Cal just make a lot of sense as institutional fits in the B1G

And look who makes the $1 billion cutoff, are in a growing state with lots of B1G alums, and turning into a fertile recruiting area, and the top B12 teams.

Interesting to see where UMass would fall if the Med School weren't broken out as its own thing.

UMass: #114 with $281,730,000
UMass Medical: #98 with $349,616,000

Together it would be just ahead of Georgia at #59 with $631,346,000.


So there's your example of how much difference a med school can make.

(12-30-2025 01:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  Interesting to see where UMass would fall if the Med School weren't broken out as its own thing.

UMass: #114 with $281,730,000
UMass Medical: #98 with $349,616,000

Together it would be just ahead of Georgia at #59 with $631,346,000.


So there's your example of how much difference a med school can make.

Another example of this is the University of Oregon, the quacks do not have a medical school, back in the early 70's their medical school separated and became it's own independent institution, Oregon health sciences university.

R&D University of Oregon - $174 million
R&D Oregon health sciences University - $545 million

I don't think anyone can accuse the B1G of adding the Quacks for their research.

(12-30-2025 01:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  Interesting to see where UMass would fall if the Med School weren't broken out as its own thing.

UMass: #114 with $281,730,000
UMass Medical: #98 with $349,616,000

Together it would be just ahead of Georgia at #59 with $631,346,000.


So there's your example of how much difference a med school can make.

Oregon is another one - the Oregon Health Science University is #63 with $545 Million. Oregon State is at $371M and Oregon at $175M

(12-30-2025 01:28 PM)SouthEastAlaska Wrote:  

(12-30-2025 01:08 PM)e-parade Wrote:  Interesting to see where UMass would fall if the Med School weren't broken out as its own thing.

UMass: #114 with $281,730,000
UMass Medical: #98 with $349,616,000

Together it would be just ahead of Georgia at #59 with $631,346,000.


So there's your example of how much difference a med school can make.

Another example of this is the University of Oregon, the quacks do not have a medical school, back in the early 70's their medical school separated and became it's own independent institution, Oregon health sciences university.

R&D University of Oregon - $174 million
R&D Oregon health sciences University - $545 million

I don't think anyone can accuse the B1G of adding the Quacks for their research.

BORG!

(12-30-2025 12:48 AM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  

(12-29-2025 11:55 PM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(12-29-2025 11:41 PM)HawaiiMongoose Wrote:  Another example of how there’s not really a whole lot of difference between these conferences.

Future Pac:

#76 Colorado State $466 million
#80 Utah State $451 million
#86 Washington State $403 million
#94 Oregon State $372 million
#147 San Diego State $182 million
#154 Texas State $165 million
#226 Boise State $58 million
#336 Fresno State $14 million
#698 Gonzaga $1 million

Future MWC:

#36 UC Davis $1,006 million
#92 Hawaii $376 million
#97 New Mexico $355 million
#144 Nevada $194 million
#152 Wyoming $167 million
#157 UTEP $158 million
#172 UNLV $118 million
#187 San Jose State $88 million
#233 Air Force $53 million
#259 NIU $34 million
Not listed GCU

UC Davis is ofc an extreme outlier.

I’m impressed to see Hawaii so high on the list.

Yep, Davis is in another class, but it’s interesting to see most of the rest across both conferences in the 50-250 (out of 925) range.

Hawaii’s been hovering in the 75-105 range over the past decade. It’s been an R1 for a long time, in part due to sponsoring an accredited four-year medical school since 1973.

Here are a few others of interest to western realignment followers:

#123 Montana State $258 million
#140 North Dakota State $200 million
#161 Montana $144 million
#162 New Mexico State $143 million
#191 South Dakota State $82 million
#262 Sacramento State $34 million
#291 Tarleton State $25 million

If I’m an MWC president being asked to approve new conference additions, I’m going to view the Montanas and NDSU as peers. Sacramento State and Tarleton State, not so much.

I added UND, USD and Idaho

#123 Montana State $258 million
#140 North Dakota State $200 million
#143 North Dakota $197 million
#161 Montana $144 million
#162 New Mexico State $143 million
#163 Idaho $140 million
#191 South Dakota State $82 million
#262 Sacramento State $34 million
#280 South Dakota $28 million
#291 Tarleton State $25 million

(12-29-2025 05:14 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  2. It's not the end-all, be-all list but the Super 2 and conferences below them will carefully look at them to see how a specific school can fill whatever particular needs they might have at a particular time.

Why should research spending affect a decision to add a school to an athletic conference? Does being affiliated with a medical school or a hospital have any impact on a school's attractiveness to high school football or basketball players? Does it make alumni more likely to make large donations to athletic departments or to NIL collectives?

(12-31-2025 03:31 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-29-2025 05:14 PM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  2. It's not the end-all, be-all list but the Super 2 and conferences below them will carefully look at them to see how a specific school can fill whatever particular needs they might have at a particular time.

Why should research spending affect a decision to add a school to an athletic conference? Does being affiliated with a medical school or a hospital have any impact on a school's attractiveness to high school football or basketball players? Does it make alumni more likely to make large donations to athletic departments or to NIL collectives?

This. The days of measuring this sort of stuff are over. This is semi-professional football now with yearly free agency, no tampering rules, a cap that nobody follows, etc. Athletes don’t even go to class anymore, they just enter the portal after their season is over.