(10-10-2025 10:37 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 10:31 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:41 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

I think this is more like Michael Jordan playing baseball or unretiring to play with the Wizards. It’s less forgotten and more, “This was the GOAT - why the heck did he do that?!”

That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

Is he though? What is BB w/o Tom Brady? Not much.

That's my belief as well. We have I think 9 full years of data regarding BB as an HC without Brady, and IMO that data overwhelmingly says he is a mediocre HC sans Brady, and as someone once said, Brady isn't walking through that door.

As a defensive mind he might be peerless, he's definitely a defensive genius. But as an HC, I wouldn't expect him to do anything without Brady. He never has.

All that said, I don't think my view is the dominant one. The dominant one is that as FT says he is in the NFL coach GOAT conversation with Vince Lombardi, whether I like it or not (FWIW, I don't like the Packers, but IMO Lombardi is the clear-cut GOAT HC).

No real disagreement from me personally on questioning whether Belichick is the GOAT or not (as I agree that he’s inextricably tied to Brady). Yes - my point is the more general public perception of him at a minimum and that’s why this story is blown up way beyond just college football circles.

That's fair, and it comes at a critical confluence of interests as to whether UNC as an institution will seek a P2 bid at the expense of its old ACC rivals, because no one is waiting until 2030 to start kicking the tires.

More...

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6704076...one-month/

(10-10-2025 06:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 04:11 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 07:29 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-08-2025 09:43 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Personally, I think BB will never be successful at UNC. I am firmly in the camp that thinks he never did anything without Brady and never will.

But I have to admit the rush to judgement on social media is kind of breathtaking. He's playing this season without his first crop of recruits and the big boost in NIL behind it, and we're just 5 games into the season.

It arguably is the fastest stampede of this kind ever.

Well, he built elite defenses in NY and Cleveland and helped the Giants win two Super Bowls. The Patriots had some of the best defenses in the league during his run. They went 11-5 with perennial backup Matt Cassel and made the playoffs I believe once post-Brady.

It’s a lot easier for an elite QB to pick their destination (Tampa) than a coach to cobble the amount of players required to be successful.

So I disagree. Brady also had some great OC’s and he’d be the first to admit Belichick is a great coach.

I should clarify that when I say he "never did anything without Brady", I mean as an HC. He is unquestionably one of the great defensive minds in the history of football, and arguably the GOAT NFL defensive coordinator. But as an HC, his role at UNC now, IMO he was never anything without Brady, the data on that is IMO overwhelming.

Well, it’s actually not because as I pointed out his defenses were excellent to elite during Brady’s run. Brady handpicked a perfect situation in Tampa and had his TE join him.

Unless Brady was out there picking off passes and causing INTs and I missed it? Of course it’s silly to say one man wins Super Bowls because if that were the case I have to point out Dan Marino.

IMO, his HC record without Brady speaks for itself, and it's not a good one.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand the team element of football. There is an inconvenient truth that Brady developed under Belichick and the system he had in place. There is no other data. By the time he joined Tampa (which he handpicked and helped assemble), he was a fully developed veteran HOF lock.

There is no Brady without Belichick and his system. Brady was not Brady at Michigan, he was an undeveloped, smart, 7th round pick.

(10-10-2025 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:41 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

I think this is more like Michael Jordan playing baseball or unretiring to play with the Wizards. It’s less forgotten and more, “This was the GOAT - why the heck did he do that?!”

That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

It’s most analogous to Bill Walsh returning to Stanford. He’s a coach, not an athlete.

(10-11-2025 08:44 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 06:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 04:11 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 07:29 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  Well, he built elite defenses in NY and Cleveland and helped the Giants win two Super Bowls. The Patriots had some of the best defenses in the league during his run. They went 11-5 with perennial backup Matt Cassel and made the playoffs I believe once post-Brady.

It’s a lot easier for an elite QB to pick their destination (Tampa) than a coach to cobble the amount of players required to be successful.

So I disagree. Brady also had some great OC’s and he’d be the first to admit Belichick is a great coach.

I should clarify that when I say he "never did anything without Brady", I mean as an HC. He is unquestionably one of the great defensive minds in the history of football, and arguably the GOAT NFL defensive coordinator. But as an HC, his role at UNC now, IMO he was never anything without Brady, the data on that is IMO overwhelming.

Well, it’s actually not because as I pointed out his defenses were excellent to elite during Brady’s run. Brady handpicked a perfect situation in Tampa and had his TE join him.

Unless Brady was out there picking off passes and causing INTs and I missed it? Of course it’s silly to say one man wins Super Bowls because if that were the case I have to point out Dan Marino.

IMO, his HC record without Brady speaks for itself, and it's not a good one.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand the team element of football. There is an inconvenient truth that Brady developed under Belichick and the system he had in place. There is no other data. By the time he joined Tampa (which he handpicked and helped assemble), he was a fully developed veteran HOF lock.

There is no Brady without Belichick and his system. Brady was not Brady at Michigan, he was an undeveloped, smart, 7th round pick.

Agree Brady and Belichick made each other. At Tampa Brady brought in/back a bunch of old New England players he was familar with, and rode them to another super bowl.

Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

(10-11-2025 10:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

Those people on the BOT need to pony up with the money. They forced the issue and now own it. I would imagine recruiting is going to be very tough for NC next year. They will overpay for some, but overall this is not an attractive place for a football recruit presently.

(10-11-2025 11:05 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(10-11-2025 10:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

Those people on the BOT need to pony up with the money. They forced the issue and now own it. I would imagine recruiting is going to be very tough for NC next year. They will overpay for some, but overall this is not an attractive place for a football recruit presently.

FYI Thamel was on Gameday and said there is solidarity inside the program.

JR and X have been accurate insofar as the issues are external as Carolina has multiple factions of butthurt suits going at it.

(10-11-2025 08:55 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-11-2025 08:44 AM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 06:35 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 04:11 PM)Dr Dawgma III Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 11:18 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  I should clarify that when I say he "never did anything without Brady", I mean as an HC. He is unquestionably one of the great defensive minds in the history of football, and arguably the GOAT NFL defensive coordinator. But as an HC, his role at UNC now, IMO he was never anything without Brady, the data on that is IMO overwhelming.

Well, it’s actually not because as I pointed out his defenses were excellent to elite during Brady’s run. Brady handpicked a perfect situation in Tampa and had his TE join him.

Unless Brady was out there picking off passes and causing INTs and I missed it? Of course it’s silly to say one man wins Super Bowls because if that were the case I have to point out Dan Marino.

IMO, his HC record without Brady speaks for itself, and it's not a good one.

Spoken like someone who doesn’t understand the team element of football. There is an inconvenient truth that Brady developed under Belichick and the system he had in place. There is no other data. By the time he joined Tampa (which he handpicked and helped assemble), he was a fully developed veteran HOF lock.

There is no Brady without Belichick and his system. Brady was not Brady at Michigan, he was an undeveloped, smart, 7th round pick.

Agree Brady and Belichick made each other. At Tampa Brady brought in/back a bunch of old New England players he was familar with, and rode them to another super bowl.

And NFC-South wasn't a power division, back then. Custom-made for Brady.

(10-11-2025 10:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

Surprising to me. Is there money unc cannot touch?

I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

(10-12-2025 06:55 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

I think you have to realize NC was a dumpster fire. This is year one of a rebuild, You really need to give the coach 3 years. In this case the problem was not helped by having a coach with a learning curve in how the system now works. I have no doubts he can coach the team question will be can he get the horses he needs to coach.
USF and Cincy are good examples, where it took 3 years

(10-12-2025 07:23 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 06:55 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

I think you have to realize NC was a dumpster fire. This is year one of a rebuild, You really need to give the coach 3 years. In this case the problem was not helped by having a coach with a learning curve in how the system now works. I have no doubts he can coach the team question will be can he get the horses he needs to coach.
USF and Cincy are good examples, where it took 3 years

That’s certainly fair but the UNC fans expectations are so incredibly high that Bill may not get three years.

Ultimately, ticket sales and other money will determine whether Bill stays or goes.

(10-11-2025 11:05 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(10-11-2025 10:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

Those people on the BOT need to pony up with the money. They forced the issue and now own it. I would imagine recruiting is going to be very tough for NC next year. They will overpay for some, but overall this is not an attractive place for a football recruit presently.

SMU on the brain?



I think that Belichick is safe for another week. I mean, he didn’t lose!

(10-12-2025 08:18 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-11-2025 11:05 AM)Big Frog II Wrote:  

(10-11-2025 10:19 AM)XLance Wrote:  Re: Carolina firing Belichick

Things became apparent on Wednesday evening that Bill wasn't intending to resign, and the University was in no position to pay about $40M in contract buy outs only to turn around and hire another coach and staff.

It's unfortunate that the Chancellor and BOT Chair overrode the recommendation of the Athletic Director and hired Belichick in the first place, but it appears as if we are stuck with him for another year or two, unless he decides to bail on his own.

Those people on the BOT need to pony up with the money. They forced the issue and now own it. I would imagine recruiting is going to be very tough for NC next year. They will overpay for some, but overall this is not an attractive place for a football recruit presently.

SMU on the brain?



I think that Belichick is safe for another week. I mean, he didn’t lose!

Probably safe for another two weeks.

Next week's Cal game doesn't start until 10:30 and a lot of OF's won't be able to stay up long enough to see how how the Heels play in the second half.

(10-12-2025 08:15 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 07:23 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 06:55 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

I think you have to realize NC was a dumpster fire. This is year one of a rebuild, You really need to give the coach 3 years. In this case the problem was not helped by having a coach with a learning curve in how the system now works. I have no doubts he can coach the team question will be can he get the horses he needs to coach.
USF and Cincy are good examples, where it took 3 years

That’s certainly fair but the UNC fans expectations are so incredibly high that Bill may not get three years.

Ultimately, ticket sales and other money will determine whether Bill stays or goes.

Yes, and some basketball homers jumped on the bandwagon and I think made it worse.

Belichick and James Franklin are both 0-3 vs power programs. The difference is Franklin had a preseason top 10 team and has been at the helm for a decade while Belichick hasn’t even been in Chapel Hill for a year and literally nobody picked his team to compete for a conference title (yet they statistically still have better shot than FSU lol). It’s wild they are being lumped in the same hot seat category.

(10-10-2025 09:42 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  “Finebaum pointed to Belichick's recent trip to Nantucket with his girlfriend, 24-year-old Jordon Hudson, during the team's bye week as a sign that the coach has lost focus.”

My goodness, Belichick has Paul Feinbaum on his case. Belichick should have taken Jordon to Kill Devil Hills or Nags Head and the Outer Banks rather than Nantucket.

https://www.marca.com/en/ncaa/2025/10/10...b45e3.html

This is pathetic.

If his wife was 70 years old y'all would not have an issue with this

(10-12-2025 08:15 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 07:23 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 06:55 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

I think you have to realize NC was a dumpster fire. This is year one of a rebuild, You really need to give the coach 3 years. In this case the problem was not helped by having a coach with a learning curve in how the system now works. I have no doubts he can coach the team question will be can he get the horses he needs to coach.
USF and Cincy are good examples, where it took 3 years

That’s certainly fair but the UNC fans expectations are so incredibly high that Bill may not get three years.

Ultimately, ticket sales and other money will determine whether Bill stays or goes.

Ticket prices are a really sore subject to many long term fans. Blame it on coaching salaries, NIL or whatever.

Some Carolina basketball ticket prices increased as much as 70% this year, while football ticket prices increased 30-50%.
I personally know several guys who were original seat license holders in the Dean Dome that have given up their seats this year because of price increases and sub-standard product on the court.
The University didn't bring Belichick in to re-build, but now that's the current messaging and were being asked to be patient. Price increases in a three to 5 year re-build will leave many empty seats until the team actually shows some improvement.

(10-12-2025 11:31 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 08:15 AM)Ned Low Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 07:23 AM)goodknightfl Wrote:  

(10-12-2025 06:55 AM)GTFletch Wrote:  I mean, Geoff Collins trashed up the team in Mack Collins final year. It is interesting to me that the UNC boosters and fans had no clue how F-upped the team became. It will take B. Belichick a few years to straighten things out.

I think you have to realize NC was a dumpster fire. This is year one of a rebuild, You really need to give the coach 3 years. In this case the problem was not helped by having a coach with a learning curve in how the system now works. I have no doubts he can coach the team question will be can he get the horses he needs to coach.
USF and Cincy are good examples, where it took 3 years

That’s certainly fair but the UNC fans expectations are so incredibly high that Bill may not get three years.

Ultimately, ticket sales and other money will determine whether Bill stays or goes.

Ticket prices are a really sore subject to many long term fans. Blame it on coaching salaries, NIL or whatever.

Some Carolina basketball ticket prices increased as much as 70% this year, while football ticket prices increased 30-50%.
I personally know several guys who were original seat license holders in the Dean Dome that have given up their seats this year because of price increases and sub-standard product on the court.
The University didn't bring Belichick in to re-build, but now that's the current messaging and were being asked to be patient. Price increases in a three to 5 year re-build will leave many empty seats until the team actually shows some improvement.

Catch me up here. Were you for or against Belichick's hiring?