My take on the UNC situation is of surprise, but not surprise.

Belichick was always a "team" first guy and consistently got rid of star players and find diamonds in the rough that fit his ideals of a player. He also had no problem taking a problem player and "re-organizing them" into his culture.

So I believe he thinks his culture can be better than other programs. That is what will take time...he needs to know his players. So I'm not surprised by his struggles.

What I am surprised about is how he thinks not going after the best players in the offseason, not talking to his players in season and going on vacation in season is going to accomplish that culture. I think his behavior (actions) and attitude is 100% the problem, not the fact that he needs time. Fights in the locker room, Grad school girlfriend, assistant coaches committing infractions...he needs to get that all under control...like step up and get it under control. He is certainly being paid to do that, so he should do it.

(10-10-2025 12:59 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 12:43 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 12:20 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 12:00 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-09-2025 11:52 PM)IWokeUpLikeThis Wrote:  Do you think it’s because of societal jealousy of his romance with Jordon Hudson?

Because we’re in unprecedented waters where a first-year coach (who has the credibility of a 6x Super Bowl Champion) without his first crop of recruits 5 games into a 2-3 tenure is the subject of a national witchhunt that will not be satisfied until he’s immediately terminated.

None of the above. There are factions using this as their personal political football and trying to gain favor by making it a folly for one group and a cause for another. Ramses is of two maybe three minds on this issue. You've heard of the 3 faces of Eve? Well, it has more to do with internal conflict over the direction of things at UNC and much less to do with Belichick or his babe. The side who landed him as coach is suffering the puffery and pillaring of the group that didn't want to and mixed into all of this are some academicians wanting potentially a different potential allegiance.

It's not the same but it reminds me a bit of Maryland's internal issues.

And frankly, he's come across like someone with dementia. The torn Tshirts, the way he lets her boss him around. And she's a temperamental prima donna. He's getting paid a ton of money and they have to wonder if they are getting what they intended to pay for.

I wouldn't argue against that the being the perception. I'm just saying there is more fueling the reaction than just Belichick. His fitness being called into question is a political football for more reasons than the apparent one and because of that the intensity over the situation is much more intense than just that of a potentially bad hire. It's not just about what it is about.

With colleges, you never know what internal political undertones are going on.

Indeed.

(10-10-2025 07:20 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  My take on the UNC situation is of surprise, but not surprise.

Belichick was always a "team" first guy and consistently got rid of star players and find diamonds in the rough that fit his ideals of a player. He also had no problem taking a problem player and "re-organizing them" into his culture.

So I believe he thinks his culture can be better than other programs. That is what will take time...he needs to know his players. So I'm not surprised by his struggles.

What I am surprised about is how he thinks not going after the best players in the offseason, not talking to his players in season and going on vacation in season is going to accomplish that culture. I think his behavior (actions) and attitude is 100% the problem, not the fact that he needs time. Fights in the locker room, Grad school girlfriend, assistant coaches committing infractions...he needs to get that all under control...like step up and get it under control. He is certainly being paid to do that, so he should do it.

Is Belichick really going the "team first, not stars" route though? IIRC, they are dumping a lot of $$$ into NIL deals and are recruiting star players. I mean, this is UNC football, not hoops, so they don't have the pick of blue-chippers, but I believe they are targeting the 4 and 5 star guys now. Maybe I am mistaken.

I think there’s a lot of missing the forest for the trees here.

The NFL is the most-watched entertainment (not just sports) property in the America by far. As a result, the NFL’s cultural impact with everyone (sports fans and non-sports fans alike) is far beyond anything else in this country, including but not limited to college football.

Bill Belichick is by far the most famous NFL coach of this century. If you asked a random person on the street to name a football coach, you’re likely going to get the response “Bill Belichick” more than any other. He was the face of a Patriots dynasty that was largely unloved outside of New England and didn’t have the fun national bandwagon effect of the ‘90s Cowboys or current Chiefs. Tom Brady is in more commercials in retirement than he was when he was an active player because the nostalgia for him is greater than how much he was liked as a player. (Peyton Manning was the commercial star of that era, although he hasn’t slowed down on that front, either.) Belichick actively cultivated his image as a terse superior jerk and that’s layered on top of being the face of a largely unlovable dynasty that enjoyed saying that their method was better than everyone else by doing it the “right way” with “The Patriot Way” (never mind Aaron Hernandez or Spygate).

So, this has little to do with UNC or a girlfriend or frankly anything about college football. Those are all just sideshows to the main event. This is simply one of the greatest examples that you’ll ever see of pure sports hate schadenfreude. The possibly greatest NFL coach of all time of a team that everyone outside of New England hated gets cut down to size at a supposedly lower level of football in less than a month. As a bonus, all of those media people that Belichick insulted over the past 3 decades as not knowing anything about football get to descend en masse. I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - there were soooooo many people that were ready to pounce if Belichick simply underachieved, much less have a mushroom cloud-sized disaster.

(10-10-2025 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think there’s a lot of missing the forest for the trees here.

The NFL is the most-watched entertainment (not just sports) property in the America by far. As a result, the NFL’s cultural impact with everyone (sports fans and non-sports fans alike) is far beyond anything else in this country, including but not limited to college football.

Bill Belichick is by far the most famous NFL coach of this century. If you asked a random person on the street to name a football coach, you’re likely going to get the response “Bill Belichick” more than any other. He was the face of a Patriots dynasty that was largely unloved outside of New England and didn’t have the fun national bandwagon effect of the ‘90s Cowboys or current Chiefs. Tom Brady is in more commercials in retirement than he was when he was an active player because the nostalgia for him is greater than how much he was liked as a player. (Peyton Manning was the commercial star of that era, although he hasn’t slowed down on that front, either.) Belichick actively cultivated his image as a terse superior jerk and that’s layered on top of being the face of a largely unlovable dynasty that enjoyed saying that their method was better than everyone else by doing it the “right way” with “The Patriot Way” (never mind Aaron Hernandez or Spygate).

So, this has little to do with UNC or a girlfriend or frankly anything about college football. Those are all just sideshows to the main event. This is simply one of the greatest examples that you’ll ever see of pure sports hate schadenfreude. The possibly greatest NFL coach of all time of a team that everyone outside of New England hated gets cut down to size at a supposedly lower level of football in less than a month. As a bonus, all of those media people that Belichick insulted over the past 3 decades as not knowing anything about football get to descend en masse. I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - there were soooooo many people that were ready to pounce if Belichick simply underachieved, much less have a mushroom cloud-sized disaster.

That's an angle I can see at work to be sure, but the nitro for that glycerin remains internal issues at U.N.C. Get the two together where there are divided factions within the school as to how best to pursue the future and their volatility when mixed with Belichicks wholly independent ways is going to produce a mini-mushroom cloud. It's not a tempest in a teapot but rather bomb in a coffee kettle. There will be shrapnel that's going to damage a lot of things internally and externally if they don't get on the same page. Visions of Public Ivy and Sports School are terribly conflicting. Roberts said let's be best at both, when some want the Public Ivy tag and others want to see UNC sports improved.

So, while I see your angle as having merit, I see another angle just below the surface of the flashover, and that angle has factions which can't decide which identity the school wants to pursue. And then among the sports enthusiasts there are conflicting visions between Directors' Cup pursuits, basketball, and those who want to spend to become better at football.

Belichick has become the icon for a conflict he could not possibly have anticipated. If I had his money and legacy, I think I would have my agent working out the buyout and would wash my hands of the mess and enjoy retirement. Eventually the public will realize that the controversy is way deeper than the coach.

This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

(10-10-2025 08:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think there’s a lot of missing the forest for the trees here.

The NFL is the most-watched entertainment (not just sports) property in the America by far. As a result, the NFL’s cultural impact with everyone (sports fans and non-sports fans alike) is far beyond anything else in this country, including but not limited to college football.

Bill Belichick is by far the most famous NFL coach of this century. If you asked a random person on the street to name a football coach, you’re likely going to get the response “Bill Belichick” more than any other. He was the face of a Patriots dynasty that was largely unloved outside of New England and didn’t have the fun national bandwagon effect of the ‘90s Cowboys or current Chiefs. Tom Brady is in more commercials in retirement than he was when he was an active player because the nostalgia for him is greater than how much he was liked as a player. (Peyton Manning was the commercial star of that era, although he hasn’t slowed down on that front, either.) Belichick actively cultivated his image as a terse superior jerk and that’s layered on top of being the face of a largely unlovable dynasty that enjoyed saying that their method was better than everyone else by doing it the “right way” with “The Patriot Way” (never mind Aaron Hernandez or Spygate).

So, this has little to do with UNC or a girlfriend or frankly anything about college football. Those are all just sideshows to the main event. This is simply one of the greatest examples that you’ll ever see of pure sports hate schadenfreude. The possibly greatest NFL coach of all time of a team that everyone outside of New England hated gets cut down to size at a supposedly lower level of football in less than a month. As a bonus, all of those media people that Belichick insulted over the past 3 decades as not knowing anything about football get to descend en masse. I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - there were soooooo many people that were ready to pounce if Belichick simply underachieved, much less have a mushroom cloud-sized disaster.

That's an angle I can see at work to be sure, but the nitro for that glycerin remains internal issues at U.N.C. Get the two together where there are divided factions within the school as to how best to pursue the future and their volatility when mixed with Belichicks wholly independent ways is going to produce a mini-mushroom cloud. It's not a tempest in a teapot but rather bomb in a coffee kettle. There will be shrapnel that's going to damage a lot of things internally and externally if they don't get on the same page. Visions of Public Ivy and Sports School are terribly conflicting. Roberts said let's be best at both, when some want the Public Ivy tag and others want to see UNC sports improved.

So, while I see your angle as having merit, I see another angle just below the surface of the flashover, and that angle has factions which can't decide which identity the school wants to pursue. And then among the sports enthusiasts there are conflicting visions between Directors' Cup pursuits, basketball, and those who want to spend to become better at football.

Belichick has become the icon for a conflict he could not possibly have anticipated. If I had his money and legacy, I think I would have my agent working out the buyout and would wash my hands of the mess and enjoy retirement. Eventually the public will realize that the controversy is way deeper than the coach.

I agree with your last point - Belichick should just be riding into the sunset. Much like Nick Saban, he’s way more charismatic as a TV personality compared to his coaching persona and incredibly insightful. His highest and best use is as an NFL studio host.

On your other points, they may all well be true. I’m just saying that the national white hot interest all stems from this being involved with Belichick *specifically*. The whole reason why UNC jumped through hoops and signed an insane contract with wacky buyout provisions is because they were hiring Bill freaking Belichick. This is like hiring Vince Lombardi or Phil Jackson a couple of years after they were done with the pros - this is a legend on the Mount Rushmore of coaches that isn’t a normal pro coach retread that we see in college from time to time. The reason why any of us know the name of the coach’s girlfriend is because it’s *Belichick’s* girlfriend. Colleges have lots of different scandals and internal fights (notably UNC being known for several of them) and coaches underachieve all of the time (even Super Bowl winning coaches like Bill Walsh at Stanford)… but we’re talking about the top of the top here. This is the Michael Jordan or Tiger Woods of football coaches.

Can you imagine if UNC or frankly any other school hired Phil Jackson as basketball coach right after he left the Lakers and then he flamed out in the first *month* in spectacular fashion? This is what’s happening right now in real time. I remember Spygate and Deflategate being covered by the media like they were the Pentagon Papers because people wanted to target Belichick and the Pats so much. So, when there is a whiff in the air of possible a *real* scandal (recruiting violations!) and there are people that (gasp!) outright want to *fire* Belichick AND he also happens to parade his way younger girlfriend around on the sidelines, you’ve got the perfect sports news story to power thousands of ESPN and talk radio shows and podcasts and millions of hot takes. And we’re just one month into the season!

(10-10-2025 08:41 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

I think this is more like Michael Jordan playing baseball or unretiring to play with the Wizards. It’s less forgotten and more, “This was the GOAT - why the heck did he do that?!”

That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

The media in Tar Heel country is getting increasingly critical. Unless BB turns it all around fast, change will happen when the season concludes if not beforehand.

https://tarheelswire.usatoday.com/story/...611929007/

I thought this was a stupid hire to begin with. Didn’t expect such a total train wreck. Worse than I expected.

“Finebaum pointed to Belichick's recent trip to Nantucket with his girlfriend, 24-year-old Jordon Hudson, during the team's bye week as a sign that the coach has lost focus.”

My goodness, Belichick has Paul Feinbaum on his case. Belichick should have taken Jordon to Kill Devil Hills or Nags Head and the Outer Banks rather than Nantucket.

https://www.marca.com/en/ncaa/2025/10/10...b45e3.html

(10-10-2025 09:28 AM)AssKickingChicken Wrote:  I thought this was a stupid hire to begin with. Didn’t expect such a total train wreck. Worse than I expected.

I was getting more “Lovie Smith at Illinois” vibes. He was much less accomplished than Belichick, but still made a Super Bowl, was well-respected, considered a defensive genius, and had particular resonance at our school since he was the long-time Bears coach (and in fact the winningest coach in franchise history besides George Halas and Mike Ditka) and Illini fans are overwhelmingly also Bears fans. I can’t tell you how badly everyone wanted Smith at Illinois to work. Alas, it was supremely disappointing. It wasn’t a total immediate flameout, but it was clear early on that Smith wasn’t interested in the recruiting side very much and that’s not exactly a recipe for success in college.

On paper, you would think that Belichick’s background as de facto GM of the Patriots on too of his coaching duties would help in the post-House era where there is effectively a new salary cap (with the revenue distribution cap), but I certainly didn’t think he was going to be interested in a lot of the handholding and relationship building that goes into traditional recruiting. Regardless, I don’t think we can even say that was the problem here. Whatever it is, the fit isn’t there.

(10-10-2025 09:42 AM)OdinFrigg Wrote:  “Finebaum pointed to Belichick's recent trip to Nantucket with his girlfriend, 24-year-old Jordon Hudson, during the team's bye week as a sign that the coach has lost focus.”

My goodness, Belichick has Paul Feinbaum on his case. Belichick should have taken Jordon to Kill Devil Hills or Nags Head and the Outer Banks rather than Nantucket.

https://www.marca.com/en/ncaa/2025/10/10...b45e3.html

Eh - Belichick has *multiple* houses on Nantucket. He’s New England royalty at this point. It’s not crazy for the coaching staff to take a few days off during a bye week. This seems more like a piling on for a specific narrative.

(10-10-2025 08:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think there’s a lot of missing the forest for the trees here.

The NFL is the most-watched entertainment (not just sports) property in the America by far. As a result, the NFL’s cultural impact with everyone (sports fans and non-sports fans alike) is far beyond anything else in this country, including but not limited to college football.

Bill Belichick is by far the most famous NFL coach of this century. If you asked a random person on the street to name a football coach, you’re likely going to get the response “Bill Belichick” more than any other. He was the face of a Patriots dynasty that was largely unloved outside of New England and didn’t have the fun national bandwagon effect of the ‘90s Cowboys or current Chiefs. Tom Brady is in more commercials in retirement than he was when he was an active player because the nostalgia for him is greater than how much he was liked as a player. (Peyton Manning was the commercial star of that era, although he hasn’t slowed down on that front, either.) Belichick actively cultivated his image as a terse superior jerk and that’s layered on top of being the face of a largely unlovable dynasty that enjoyed saying that their method was better than everyone else by doing it the “right way” with “The Patriot Way” (never mind Aaron Hernandez or Spygate).

So, this has little to do with UNC or a girlfriend or frankly anything about college football. Those are all just sideshows to the main event. This is simply one of the greatest examples that you’ll ever see of pure sports hate schadenfreude. The possibly greatest NFL coach of all time of a team that everyone outside of New England hated gets cut down to size at a supposedly lower level of football in less than a month. As a bonus, all of those media people that Belichick insulted over the past 3 decades as not knowing anything about football get to descend en masse. I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - there were soooooo many people that were ready to pounce if Belichick simply underachieved, much less have a mushroom cloud-sized disaster.

That's an angle I can see at work to be sure, but the nitro for that glycerin remains internal issues at U.N.C. Get the two together where there are divided factions within the school as to how best to pursue the future and their volatility when mixed with Belichicks wholly independent ways is going to produce a mini-mushroom cloud. It's not a tempest in a teapot but rather bomb in a coffee kettle. There will be shrapnel that's going to damage a lot of things internally and externally if they don't get on the same page. Visions of Public Ivy and Sports School are terribly conflicting. Roberts said let's be best at both, when some want the Public Ivy tag and others want to see UNC sports improved.

So, while I see your angle as having merit, I see another angle just below the surface of the flashover, and that angle has factions which can't decide which identity the school wants to pursue. And then among the sports enthusiasts there are conflicting visions between Directors' Cup pursuits, basketball, and those who want to spend to become better at football.

Belichick has become the icon for a conflict he could not possibly have anticipated. If I had his money and legacy, I think I would have my agent working out the buyout and would wash my hands of the mess and enjoy retirement. Eventually the public will realize that the controversy is way deeper than the coach.

It's interesting to see who is going big on football right now. Stanford, UVA, UNC, Miami, Kansas, Colorado, ASU...perhaps I should alter my view on UVA, simply b/c they're sure acting like a school that wants to be a big factor in football, and SEC Admins are no doubt taking notice.

(10-10-2025 10:00 AM)bryanw1995 Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:17 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:00 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  I think there’s a lot of missing the forest for the trees here.

The NFL is the most-watched entertainment (not just sports) property in the America by far. As a result, the NFL’s cultural impact with everyone (sports fans and non-sports fans alike) is far beyond anything else in this country, including but not limited to college football.

Bill Belichick is by far the most famous NFL coach of this century. If you asked a random person on the street to name a football coach, you’re likely going to get the response “Bill Belichick” more than any other. He was the face of a Patriots dynasty that was largely unloved outside of New England and didn’t have the fun national bandwagon effect of the ‘90s Cowboys or current Chiefs. Tom Brady is in more commercials in retirement than he was when he was an active player because the nostalgia for him is greater than how much he was liked as a player. (Peyton Manning was the commercial star of that era, although he hasn’t slowed down on that front, either.) Belichick actively cultivated his image as a terse superior jerk and that’s layered on top of being the face of a largely unlovable dynasty that enjoyed saying that their method was better than everyone else by doing it the “right way” with “The Patriot Way” (never mind Aaron Hernandez or Spygate).

So, this has little to do with UNC or a girlfriend or frankly anything about college football. Those are all just sideshows to the main event. This is simply one of the greatest examples that you’ll ever see of pure sports hate schadenfreude. The possibly greatest NFL coach of all time of a team that everyone outside of New England hated gets cut down to size at a supposedly lower level of football in less than a month. As a bonus, all of those media people that Belichick insulted over the past 3 decades as not knowing anything about football get to descend en masse. I’m surprised that anyone is surprised - there were soooooo many people that were ready to pounce if Belichick simply underachieved, much less have a mushroom cloud-sized disaster.

That's an angle I can see at work to be sure, but the nitro for that glycerin remains internal issues at U.N.C. Get the two together where there are divided factions within the school as to how best to pursue the future and their volatility when mixed with Belichicks wholly independent ways is going to produce a mini-mushroom cloud. It's not a tempest in a teapot but rather bomb in a coffee kettle. There will be shrapnel that's going to damage a lot of things internally and externally if they don't get on the same page. Visions of Public Ivy and Sports School are terribly conflicting. Roberts said let's be best at both, when some want the Public Ivy tag and others want to see UNC sports improved.

So, while I see your angle as having merit, I see another angle just below the surface of the flashover, and that angle has factions which can't decide which identity the school wants to pursue. And then among the sports enthusiasts there are conflicting visions between Directors' Cup pursuits, basketball, and those who want to spend to become better at football.

Belichick has become the icon for a conflict he could not possibly have anticipated. If I had his money and legacy, I think I would have my agent working out the buyout and would wash my hands of the mess and enjoy retirement. Eventually the public will realize that the controversy is way deeper than the coach.

It's interesting to see who is going big on football right now. Stanford, UVA, UNC, Miami, Kansas, Colorado, ASU...perhaps I should alter my view on UVA, simply b/c they're sure acting like a school that wants to be a big factor in football, and SEC Admins are no doubt taking notice.

I think every Power 4 school and every school that aspires to be a power school understands that they need to go big on football. Whether they have the financial wherewithal to do it might be a different question, but I don’t think any athletic director of a power school anywhere - no matter how much they might be seems as a “basketball school” or not a football brand - fails to understand that they need football to be at least competitive in this era. There’s no real debate.

Michigan is the quintessential “Public Ivy” and they clearly can simultaneously manage academic prestige, supporting a lot of different sports successfully, and having a monster football program. So, I always think it’s a cop out if a place tries to make it seem like they’re too refined somehow to have a great football program or that it’s contradictory to their broader academic and athletic goals. The best thing for your lacrosse or volleyball or soccer or even basketball program is to have a big revenue football program.

He got about a $20 million buyout if it’s not waived, maybe unc can chalk it up to all the free publicity they got from having him as coach. Memphis coach seems like a good candidate for UNC

(10-10-2025 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:41 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

I think this is more like Michael Jordan playing baseball or unretiring to play with the Wizards. It’s less forgotten and more, “This was the GOAT - why the heck did he do that?!”

That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

Is he though? What is BB w/o Tom Brady? Not much.

(10-10-2025 10:31 AM)b2b Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-10-2025 08:41 AM)DFW HOYA Wrote:  This is calling to mind when Jerry Tarkanian left UNLV for the NBA. He was fired 20 games into an 82 game season and it's all but forgotten in his legacy.

I think this is more like Michael Jordan playing baseball or unretiring to play with the Wizards. It’s less forgotten and more, “This was the GOAT - why the heck did he do that?!”

That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

Is he though? What is BB w/o Tom Brady? Not much.

That's my belief as well. We have I think 9 full years of data regarding BB as an HC without Brady, and IMO that data overwhelmingly says he is a mediocre HC sans Brady, and as someone once said, Brady isn't walking through that door.

As a defensive mind he might be peerless, he's definitely a defensive genius. But as an HC, I wouldn't expect him to do anything without Brady. He never has.

All that said, I don't think my view is the dominant one. The dominant one is that as FT says he is in the NFL coach GOAT conversation with Vince Lombardi, whether I like it or not (FWIW, I don't like the Packers, but IMO Lombardi is the clear-cut GOAT HC).

Finebaum is going scorched earth on Belicek but thought hiring him was a great idea

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/news/c...carolina/#

(10-10-2025 09:18 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  That is what’s different. This isn’t a normal coach. Belichick is in the conversation with Vince Lombardi as the greatest coach of all-time and is straight up the most successful coach of the entire Super Bowl era.

Vince was a great coach, no doubt. But so was Paul Brown, with seven AAFC and NFL titles with a quarterback that was the era's own Tom Brady: Otto Graham.

Had it not been for a Don Meredith INT in the end zone to end the NFL title game in 1966 and the fourth down run in 1967 (not to mention Jim O'Brien's FG in 1971), it might have been the Tom Landry Trophy they'd be giving out every year instead.