(06-22-2025 06:53 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I steer clear of most foreign policy discussions. Mostly because (even more than my usual ignorance) I don’t know enough to comment. But I’ll make an exception here for a big-picture historical observation.

On virtually every topic, there are extreme opinions - - with the truth lying somewhere in the middle. Not here. By green-lighting this raid, Donald Trump either triggered WW3 or he made the world a safer place for generations to come. There’s no middle ground on this one.

I don’t know which outcome will prove up - - I pray for the latter. But I think we’ll know before summer is done.

How could it possibly be WWIII?

I'm sorry, that is just one of the most idiotic talking points floating around out there (Its not just you and its not just people on the right or left). Iran has some clients, but they have zero friends.

Pretty much everyone is happy Iran can't get a bomb soon.

Between the libs @ Iran amd the Tucker Carlsonites @ Ukraine...the race of who can screed WWIII the most.

(06-22-2025 08:03 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Lets look at this logically on a WW3 and who are the possible players for that to happen.

Before the last couple years people would say Russia, most people though of them as being capable. What the world really found out they cant even push their little stepbrother around and they live down the street.

China is the only player left in the game of "WW3", without China, Russia is not a threat to take Iran's side and fight for them. So unless China believes, with Russia's help they can basically take control of the world. That's the only way, other than words, they get into this.

China has the best life they ever had in the history of that country going on. So why would they chance that and basically bet they can or go back to dirt farmers? China has too much to lose and realize its about a 1000 to 1 shot they can fight America and NATO and come out the winners.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.....at this point in history, 20 to 30 years from now who knows but at this point. China is not betting everything for Iran, or Russia because right now China knows they are a clear #2 in the world after seeing Russia struggle with a war for years. Something that would have been a walk in the park, if America was Russia.

No WW3, unless nukes come into it and that ends life as everyone knows it. There is no war machine like Germany and Japan were. Not only that but with the will to bet every thing. Neither country had as much to lose at the time, than China does today.

Flare ups are possible but full out war is less than likely and those flare up will not come from Russia or China firing rockets or attacking anything of America's.....

Without China there is no WW3, at least in the same context as WW2

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

I think this is over target. But I have one caveat. I’m very concerned that Russia is capable of launching nuclear warheads if they get corned like a rabid animal. Not being able to deal a swift defeat of Ukraine brings the nuclear scenario to the table more so than a quick beat down would have. Putin is not stable at this point in his life and you still quite a few Cold War era Soviets who are apart of Vlad’s military and government. Those hardliners and Putin’s mental state concern me if Russia gets boxed in.

(06-22-2025 02:42 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 08:03 AM)WKUYG Wrote:  Lets look at this logically on a WW3 and who are the possible players for that to happen.

Before the last couple years people would say Russia, most people though of them as being capable. What the world really found out they cant even push their little stepbrother around and they live down the street.

China is the only player left in the game of "WW3", without China, Russia is not a threat to take Iran's side and fight for them. So unless China believes, with Russia's help they can basically take control of the world. That's the only way, other than words, they get into this.

China has the best life they ever had in the history of that country going on. So why would they chance that and basically bet they can or go back to dirt farmers? China has too much to lose and realize its about a 1000 to 1 shot they can fight America and NATO and come out the winners.

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.....at this point in history, 20 to 30 years from now who knows but at this point. China is not betting everything for Iran, or Russia because right now China knows they are a clear #2 in the world after seeing Russia struggle with a war for years. Something that would have been a walk in the park, if America was Russia.

No WW3, unless nukes come into it and that ends life as everyone knows it. There is no war machine like Germany and Japan were. Not only that but with the will to bet every thing. Neither country had as much to lose at the time, than China does today.

Flare ups are possible but full out war is less than likely and those flare up will not come from Russia or China firing rockets or attacking anything of America's.....

Without China there is no WW3, at least in the same context as WW2

NOT GOING TO HAPPEN

I think this is over target. But I have one caveat. I’m very concerned that Russia is capable of launching nuclear warheads if they get corned like a rabid animal. Not being able to deal a swift defeat of Ukraine brings the nuclear scenario to the table more so than a quick beat down would have. Putin is not stable at this point in his life and you still quite a few Cold War era Soviets who are apart of Vlad’s military and government. Those hardliners and Putin’s mental state concern me if Russia gets boxed in.

Why? Ive been hearing this kinda stuff, cancer, mental illness, etc for years yet he is still around. Where did you get this info?

(06-22-2025 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  How could it possibly be WWIII?

WW3 is not restricted to the mass mobilization of armies. If that is all that you think to be conceivable, then I suppose you are right. WW3 is not around the corner and we all can sleep well at night.

What I worry about- - and I am not a particularly imaginative guy, so there may be more than what I have listed below - - is non-conventional warfare:

—> A cornered and desperate Putin, with nuclear capacity, decides that unilateral action is now justified in Ukraine (or elsewhere);
—> An economically threatened and totally soulless Xi, who is willing to unleash another bioweapon;
—> An “e.m.p.”, which takes out our grid;
—> An embedded sleeper cell network, spread across our nation thanks to Biden, starts committing random acts of terror.

I am glad that Donald Trump stepped up to moment. It had to be done.

But whether it means the world is now a safer or more dangerous place is a question that may not yet have a clear answer.

Russia isn't going to nuke anybody.

(06-22-2025 04:20 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Russia isn't going to nuke anybody.

But Iran might have.

(06-22-2025 04:34 PM)TripleA Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 04:20 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Russia isn't going to nuke anybody.

But Iran might have.

Exactly

(06-22-2025 03:38 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  

(06-22-2025 01:13 PM)bullet Wrote:  How could it possibly be WWIII?

WW3 is not restricted to the mass mobilization of armies. If that is all that you think to be conceivable, then I suppose you are right. WW3 is not around the corner and we all can sleep well at night.

What I worry about- - and I am not a particularly imaginative guy, so there may be more than what I have listed below - - is non-conventional warfare:

—> A cornered and desperate Putin, with nuclear capacity, decides that unilateral action is now justified in Ukraine (or elsewhere);
—> An economically threatened and totally soulless Xi, who is willing to unleash another bioweapon;
—> An “e.m.p.”, which takes out our grid;
—> An embedded sleeper cell network, spread across our nation thanks to Biden, starts committing random acts of terror.

I am glad that Donald Trump stepped up to moment. It had to be done.

But whether it means the world is now a safer or more dangerous place is a question that may not yet have a clear answer.

Ukraine is a totally different issue than Iran. I think it completely underestimates Putin's common sense and ignores historic precedent in Korea, Vietnam and Afghanistan to think Ukraine creates WWIII, but at least its not totally irrational.

A quote from Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, taken from this morning’s Miranda Devine piece in the NYP:

Quote:“[Trump is] also so flexible in terms of the way he looks at things,” Bessent said. “We’ve just spent basically the past 24 hours in the Situation Room over the Iran-Israel conflict, and I can tell you that the American people should know, and the American troops should know, that Donald Trump is doing an incredible job looking after their interests in what could turn, without someone like him, could turn into a widespread conflict that US soldiers and interests could get sucked into.”

This truly seems to be a different Donald Trump.

(06-23-2025 04:40 AM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  A quote from Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent, taken from this morning’s Miranda Devine piece in the NYP:

Quote:“[Trump is] also so flexible in terms of the way he looks at things,” Bessent said. “We’ve just spent basically the past 24 hours in the Situation Room over the Iran-Israel conflict, and I can tell you that the American people should know, and the American troops should know, that Donald Trump is doing an incredible job looking after their interests in what could turn, without someone like him, could turn into a widespread conflict that US soldiers and interests could get sucked into.”

This truly seems to be a different Donald Trump.

My guess is that being out of office for 4 years, and seeing the disaster that was Biden, gave him political religion.