(05-27-2025 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:32 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 11:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Like Ive tried to explain to the Putin worshiping pro Russia cheer leader cult on this board---even Trump and Vance are finally starting to figure out that Russia is the real obstacle to a lasting peace in Ukraine---not the Ukrainian leadership---and not the Europeans. Russia is not and friend and they do not wish us well. For whatever reasons, some have a hard time understanding that Economic competitors are not the same thing as a military enemy. You can be an military ally of a nation and still be an economic competitor. We have economic interests all over the world. Its going to be impossible to defend those interests (rare earth resources for instance) in far flung areas if we dont have allies in the region. We certainly need to reconsider who we ally with and in what manner---but going it alone---is maintaining our current living and security standard all alone---is probably not really viable in a world with so many rising peer threats.

FFS. We just dont want hundreds of millions of our dollars to fuel a war.

Good grief. No one "worships" Putin. Put the crack pipe down

What happens to Ukraine is not our problem. We've wasted too many innocent American lives dicking around in the dessert for 20+ years. And the worst part is, we couldn't even defeat the cave dwelling sand people.

Why is this so hard for many to understand.

Please don’t be another Tanqi Bois. Some have a different opinion than you. Maybe you should understand us.
As for Putin, some here have stated it would be fine with them, even better maybe, if Putin took over all of Europe. Can’t remember exactly who, maybe you remember, but that could be where the Putin worship comes from. Or maybe it’s the “Putin is protecting us from the globohomos”. Or maybe “Putin is protecting western values!”.

Trump is coming around to Putin’s bullchit (finally) and I don’t think he will walk away and be done with it as many of you hope.

And for the ten thousands time NONE OF US ARE SAYING SEND ONE AMERICAN TO FIGHT IN UKRAINE. THAT IS WHAT WE DESPERATELY WANT TO AVOID.

(05-27-2025 02:29 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:32 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 11:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Like Ive tried to explain to the Putin worshiping pro Russia cheer leader cult on this board---even Trump and Vance are finally starting to figure out that Russia is the real obstacle to a lasting peace in Ukraine---not the Ukrainian leadership---and not the Europeans. Russia is not and friend and they do not wish us well. For whatever reasons, some have a hard time understanding that Economic competitors are not the same thing as a military enemy. You can be an military ally of a nation and still be an economic competitor. We have economic interests all over the world. Its going to be impossible to defend those interests (rare earth resources for instance) in far flung areas if we dont have allies in the region. We certainly need to reconsider who we ally with and in what manner---but going it alone---is maintaining our current living and security standard all alone---is probably not really viable in a world with so many rising peer threats.

FFS. We just dont want hundreds of millions of our dollars to fuel a war.

Good grief. No one "worships" Putin. Put the crack pipe down

What happens to Ukraine is not our problem. We've wasted too many innocent American lives dicking around in the dessert for 20+ years. And the worst part is, we couldn't even defeat the cave dwelling sand people.

Why is this so hard for many to understand.

Please don’t be another Tanqi Bois. Some have a different opinion than you. Maybe you should understand us.
As for Putin, some here have stated it would be fine with them, even better maybe, if Putin took over all of Europe. Can’t remember exactly who, maybe you remember, but that could be where the Putin worship comes from. Or maybe it’s the “Putin is protecting us from the globohomos”. Or maybe “Putin is protecting western values!”.

Trump is coming around to Putin’s bullchit (finally) and I don’t think he will walk away and be done with it as many of you hope.

And for the ten thousands time NONE OF US ARE SAYING SEND ONE AMERICAN TO FIGHT IN UKRAINE. THAT IS WHAT WE DESPERATELY WANT TO AVOID.

Putin is the one of the few western leaders left that still defends western values and protects his people from the globalhomos. The rest of the west has fallen.

Putin is not a “western leader”. Get that part right first.

(05-27-2025 02:29 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:32 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 11:43 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Like Ive tried to explain to the Putin worshiping pro Russia cheer leader cult on this board---even Trump and Vance are finally starting to figure out that Russia is the real obstacle to a lasting peace in Ukraine---not the Ukrainian leadership---and not the Europeans. Russia is not and friend and they do not wish us well. For whatever reasons, some have a hard time understanding that Economic competitors are not the same thing as a military enemy. You can be an military ally of a nation and still be an economic competitor. We have economic interests all over the world. Its going to be impossible to defend those interests (rare earth resources for instance) in far flung areas if we dont have allies in the region. We certainly need to reconsider who we ally with and in what manner---but going it alone---is maintaining our current living and security standard all alone---is probably not really viable in a world with so many rising peer threats.

FFS. We just dont want hundreds of millions of our dollars to fuel a war.

Good grief. No one "worships" Putin. Put the crack pipe down

What happens to Ukraine is not our problem. We've wasted too many innocent American lives dicking around in the dessert for 20+ years. And the worst part is, we couldn't even defeat the cave dwelling sand people.

Why is this so hard for many to understand.

Please don’t be another Tanqi Bois. Some have a different opinion than you. Maybe you should understand us.
As for Putin, some here have stated it would be fine with them, even better maybe, if Putin took over all of Europe. Can’t remember exactly who, maybe you remember, but that could be where the Putin worship comes from. Or maybe it’s the “Putin is protecting us from the globohomos”. Or maybe “Putin is protecting western values!”.

Trump is coming around to Putin’s bullchit (finally) and I don’t think he will walk away and be done with it as many of you hope.

And for the ten thousands time NONE OF US ARE SAYING SEND ONE AMERICAN TO FIGHT IN UKRAINE. THAT IS WHAT WE DESPERATELY WANT TO AVOID.

I fully understand. Dont be dogmatic with your propaganda fed opinions.

We are cool. We can disagree. We agree 99% of the time

The tell is that is always "Putin" not Russia. That on Alinskys list.

Dont get played.

(05-27-2025 02:38 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  Putin is not a “western leader”. Get that part right first.

He still protects his people from the globalhomos, and that's close enough.

The enlisted band members might need some current events lessons.

(05-27-2025 02:43 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 02:29 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:33 PM)shere khan Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:32 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 01:14 PM)shere khan Wrote:  FFS. We just dont want hundreds of millions of our dollars to fuel a war.

Good grief. No one "worships" Putin. Put the crack pipe down

What happens to Ukraine is not our problem. We've wasted too many innocent American lives dicking around in the dessert for 20+ years. And the worst part is, we couldn't even defeat the cave dwelling sand people.

Why is this so hard for many to understand.

Please don’t be another Tanqi Bois. Some have a different opinion than you. Maybe you should understand us.
As for Putin, some here have stated it would be fine with them, even better maybe, if Putin took over all of Europe. Can’t remember exactly who, maybe you remember, but that could be where the Putin worship comes from. Or maybe it’s the “Putin is protecting us from the globohomos”. Or maybe “Putin is protecting western values!”.

Trump is coming around to Putin’s bullchit (finally) and I don’t think he will walk away and be done with it as many of you hope.

And for the ten thousands time NONE OF US ARE SAYING SEND ONE AMERICAN TO FIGHT IN UKRAINE. THAT IS WHAT WE DESPERATELY WANT TO AVOID.

I fully understand. Dont be dogmatic with your propaganda fed opinions.

We are cool. We can disagree. We agree 99% of the time

The tell is that is always "Putin" not Russia. That on Alinskys list.

Dont get played.

The Russian people are like most all people. They want to live in peace and be left alone. Just as we do. Unfortunately that country has never had a lasting peace where propaganda is king. Mostly because of leadership and partly because of empirical ambitions of the west. But you know all of that. Putin is the (hopefully) last of the old Soviet leadership. He operates on fear and power. You know that too. He has ambitions and he has played himself into a corner. There are factions growing in Russia that want this war over. Just a little more pressure on him and his stranglehold will collapse. All I’m saying is we (the US as and Europe) need to arm the Ukrainians to be teeth to get to that point. Then hopefully we will not have to deal with this again.

Russia and Ukraine can fight until the last man as far as I’m concerned. I don’t want to see the US anywhere near the conflict. Don’t want to see Russia misfire and kill Americans or Ukraine conduct a false flag that drags us into a hot war.

You don’t have to be a fan of Russia or Ukraine to know both Vlads are incompetent idiots.

This war needs to end now but that’s not likely to happen. Putin won’t negotiate because he knows most Americans don’t support the US getting involved in another foreign war. So he’s dragging his feet trying to force Zelensky to capitulate.

Hopefully Putin sees US troops taking part in NATO exercises as a sign the US is serious about ending the conflict one way or another.

(05-27-2025 03:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Russia and Ukraine can fight until the last man as far as I’m concerned. I don’t want to see the US anywhere near the conflict. Don’t want to see Russia misfire and kill Americans or Ukraine conduct a false flag that drags us into a hot war.

You don’t have to be a fan of Russia or Ukraine to know both Vlads are incompetent idiots.

This war needs to end now but that’s not likely to happen. Putin won’t negotiate because he knows most Americans don’t support the US getting involved in another foreign war. So he’s dragging his feet trying to force Zelensky to capitulate.

Hopefully Putin sees US troops taking part in NATO exercises as a sign the US is serious about ending the conflict one way or another.

I do not want “one way or the other” and I know you don’t either.

Putin has planned a full scale military exercise with the Belarusians on the border of Poland and Lithuania near the Sulwaki corridor. People are fleeing this corridor that connects Russia with Kalingrad because they believe it is about to be a war zone. Russia is causing trouble in the Baltic Sea and flying fighter jets into NATO airspace. Is Putin planning to widen the war? If he knows the west will sit on their hands as has been the case so far he has a chance to take the Baltic states and the second front will ease the pressure on his Ukraine offensive because the west’s attention will be diverted. Is it a play he is willing to try? I don’t know but he has to show some kind of definite win or he is toast and he knows it.
This will involve the US if it happens. I do not think it is rational but nothing to this point is. I want us to dismantle the Russians in Ukraine with Ukraine fighters and put an end to this insanity. And that insanity is Putin’s rule.

(05-27-2025 02:22 PM)JerryJeff Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 02:13 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  The “double down” headline misleads.

The USA is not doubling troops or contributions to NATO’s budget, but merely participating in exercises like normal.

Trump wants to stay in NATO, but expects our allies to pay more for their defense.

His policy is paying dividends.
“The region is hawkish on Russia and is driving European efforts to rearm and boost defense budgets, including support for Ukraine’s armed forces.” They would never have rearmed and boost defense spending without Trump as they would have been happy to tap American taxpayers and blood instead to meet the Russian threat.

It is difficult for me to understand the resistance by Dems for Europe to pay more for their defense and increase manpower. TDS is the only cause I can derive.

I think they mean double down in a gambling sense, not a doubling of their troops/armaments. They are reinforcing the existing troops, upping armaments and participating in joint troop movements/exercises. The headline says "reinforces europe's northern front" not doubling.

They changed the headline.

All you war mongers wanting us in the middle of this conflict need to lace 'em up and go over there and fight them yourselves.

Or better yet send your sons and daughters to fight for you. They would be an acceptable loss for you, right?

(05-27-2025 04:05 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  All you war mongers wanting us in the middle of this conflict need to lace 'em up and go over there and fight them yourselves.

Or better yet send your sons and daughters to fight for you. They would be an acceptable loss for you, right?

We've learned nothing from dicking around the desert with the cave dwelling sand people for 20+ years.

(05-27-2025 03:36 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 03:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Russia and Ukraine can fight until the last man as far as I’m concerned. I don’t want to see the US anywhere near the conflict. Don’t want to see Russia misfire and kill Americans or Ukraine conduct a false flag that drags us into a hot war.

You don’t have to be a fan of Russia or Ukraine to know both Vlads are incompetent idiots.

This war needs to end now but that’s not likely to happen. Putin won’t negotiate because he knows most Americans don’t support the US getting involved in another foreign war. So he’s dragging his feet trying to force Zelensky to capitulate.

Hopefully Putin sees US troops taking part in NATO exercises as a sign the US is serious about ending the conflict one way or another.

I do not want “one way or the other” and I know you don’t either.

Putin has planned a full scale military exercise with the Belarusians on the border of Poland and Lithuania near the Sulwaki corridor. People are fleeing this corridor that connects Russia with Kalingrad because they believe it is about to be a war zone. Russia is causing trouble in the Baltic Sea and flying fighter jets into NATO airspace. Is Putin planning to widen the war? If he knows the west will sit on their hands as has been the case so far he has a chance to take the Baltic states and the second front will ease the pressure on his Ukraine offensive because the west’s attention will be diverted. Is it a play he is willing to try? I don’t know but he has to show some kind of definite win or he is toast and he knows it.
This will involve the US if it happens. I do not think it is rational but nothing to this point is. I want us to dismantle the Russians in Ukraine with Ukraine fighters and put an end to this insanity. And that insanity is Putin’s rule.

Its interesting that people are actually leaving their homes in that area for fear that Putin is about to invade. I dont think thats likely while he's still involved in Ukraine---but then again---I didnt think Putin would actually invade Ukraine in 2022. In 2022, I thought he'd brilliantly set up the chess pieces in such a way that he could get 90% of what he wanted without actually firing a single shot. The only thing I can assume is he thought he could topple the government in just a few days militarily and get 100% of what he wanted without losing much as a consequence (much like he easily took Crimea with little effort and with little significant consequence). I think its unlikely he'd make the same miscalculation with a NATO country.

(05-27-2025 04:05 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  All you war mongers wanting us in the middle of this conflict need to lace 'em up and go over there and fight them yourselves.

Or better yet send your sons and daughters to fight for you. They would be an acceptable loss for you, right?

Come on dude. You know that is absolutely absurd. A losers argument. Nobody here is a warmonger. Nobody needs to lace up and go over there. No sons or daughters need to go over there. The only thing that needs to go over there is ammo like they’re asking for. The Ukrainians are doing a damn good job of fighting on their own. Just be realistic about this. You’ve just got your panties in a wad and can’t seem to reach around and dig them out.

However we FA and let this get out of hand and we will be sending REAL American treasure over there. And that -is- our sons and daughters. And our sons and daughters can’t be replaced like ammo. So I vote ammo.

(05-27-2025 05:24 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 04:05 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  All you war mongers wanting us in the middle of this conflict need to lace 'em up and go over there and fight them yourselves.

Or better yet send your sons and daughters to fight for you. They would be an acceptable loss for you, right?

Come on dude. You know that is absolutely absurd. A losers argument. Nobody here is a warmonger. Nobody needs to lace up and go over there. No sons or daughters need to go over there. The only thing that needs to go over there is ammo like they’re asking for. The Ukrainians are doing a damn good job of fighting on their own. Just be realistic about this. You’ve just got your panties in a wad and can’t seem to reach around and dig them out.

However we FA and let this get out of hand and we will be sending REAL American treasure over there. And that -is- our sons and daughters. And our sons and daughters can’t be replaced like ammo. So I vote ammo.

BTF is like me. He's mad about everything all the time.

(05-27-2025 05:06 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 03:36 PM)Was SoMs Eagle Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 03:10 PM)CardinalJim Wrote:  Russia and Ukraine can fight until the last man as far as I’m concerned. I don’t want to see the US anywhere near the conflict. Don’t want to see Russia misfire and kill Americans or Ukraine conduct a false flag that drags us into a hot war.

You don’t have to be a fan of Russia or Ukraine to know both Vlads are incompetent idiots.

This war needs to end now but that’s not likely to happen. Putin won’t negotiate because he knows most Americans don’t support the US getting involved in another foreign war. So he’s dragging his feet trying to force Zelensky to capitulate.

Hopefully Putin sees US troops taking part in NATO exercises as a sign the US is serious about ending the conflict one way or another.

I do not want “one way or the other” and I know you don’t either.

Putin has planned a full scale military exercise with the Belarusians on the border of Poland and Lithuania near the Sulwaki corridor. People are fleeing this corridor that connects Russia with Kalingrad because they believe it is about to be a war zone. Russia is causing trouble in the Baltic Sea and flying fighter jets into NATO airspace. Is Putin planning to widen the war? If he knows the west will sit on their hands as has been the case so far he has a chance to take the Baltic states and the second front will ease the pressure on his Ukraine offensive because the west’s attention will be diverted. Is it a play he is willing to try? I don’t know but he has to show some kind of definite win or he is toast and he knows it.
This will involve the US if it happens. I do not think it is rational but nothing to this point is. I want us to dismantle the Russians in Ukraine with Ukraine fighters and put an end to this insanity. And that insanity is Putin’s rule.

Its interesting that people are actually leaving their homes in that area for fear that Putin is about to invade. I dont think thats likely while he's still involved in Ukraine---but then again---I didnt think Putin would actually invade Ukraine in 2022. In 2022, I thought he'd brilliantly set up the chess pieces in such a way that he could get 90% of what he wanted without actually firing a single shot. The only thing I can assume is he thought he could topple the government in just a few days militarily and get 100% of what he wanted without losing much as a consequence (much like he easily took Crimea with little effort and with little significant consequence). I think its unlikely he'd make the same miscalculation with a NATO country.

The problem is he is between a rock and a hard place. He is not acting rationally. His very survival depends on this not being a disaster for Russia. His only hope may be that NATO would sit still for the fear of nuclear war while he took the Baltic states. If he moved on the Baltics the ammo for Ukraine would likely dry up and he would have a better chance of success. There is also a good chance the Baltic states would not be able to put up the same fight the Ukrainians have.
It’s all pure speculation but there had better be some speculation going on to avoid a massive amount of more bloodshed and American involvement.

Why should I pay for Ukraine’s ammo?

(05-27-2025 05:38 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why should I pay for Ukraine’s ammo?

We shouldn't.

(05-27-2025 05:39 PM)andybible1995 Wrote:  

(05-27-2025 05:38 PM)BartlettTigerFan Wrote:  Why should I pay for Ukraine’s ammo?

We shouldn't.

You know they want to pay for it now, right?

If they BUY it from us I have no problem selling to them. Business all the time.