(04-23-2025 08:42 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (04-23-2025 06:54 PM)tanqtonic Wrote: (04-23-2025 06:18 PM)ThreeifbyLightning Wrote: (04-23-2025 10:26 AM)tanqtonic Wrote: (04-23-2025 10:24 AM)MemTigers1998 Wrote: It’s as simple as that
"No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".
Its as simple as *that*, champ.
I find it really odd how the people who complain about others not following the Constitution, how others are trying to destroy the Constitution, how others ignore the Constitution -- are now too stupid as not understand that simple quote above, and seemingly champion not following the Constitution.
They *wrap* themselves as the champions of the Constitution -- then seemingly go out of their way to piss on it, most notably and currently the above. lmao.
I’ve demonstrated on several occasions it’s actually not simple.
You've demonstrated in pretty much every occasion that in some form, it is that simple.
And in the AG case, SCOTUS (18-0) (and two district judges, and 6 Appeals Judges)
have said that for AG -- due process was violated.
And for the attempt to use the AEA, SCOTUS and four individual district judges have said it is that simple -- have to give notice, have to give a hearing).
And Ive plopped two different cases in front of you terming that Due Process must be accorded even in terms of an ERH -- and that failure to abide by the boundaries defined in 8 CFR is a failure of due process.
"No person shall be ... deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law".
Yeah, its that simple.
It’s not that simple. I believe you and I generally believe that due process is inherently applicable in immigration settings. But I think we might disagree on what constitutes due process in an immigration setting especially for illegal aliens. Or moreover what depth and degree of due process should be warranted in such settings.
Expedited removal makes clear that due process, in those scenarios, does not warrant a hearing or judicial approval, trial, or any other court proceeding.
Correct on *court* proceeding. Every bit of 8 CFR 253 outlines the minimal boundaries of due process that *must* be followed -- even without a court setting.
I think the issue is that you are locked on to some *requirement* of a *court*.
To the exclusion of all the other aspects of due process even in that very minimal setting.
Its simple. Even in the most minimal aspect, *some* due process is required.
A hearing (need not be court, can be the officer, with the sign off of his supervisor).
Notice (the form that must be signed by the detainee, saying that they are aware of what is happening)
Right to see evidence against them (that same form).
Right to counter evidence (again, same form, detailing anything the detainee might say in their favor).
Right to counsel, if the detainee can get one.
I will absolutely agree that for puposes of ERH, the above is sufficient for due process purposes. No fight from me on that.
I think our disagreement occurs in the context of the current AEA issues, and for Abgrego in particular.
In every time that has hit the courts so far, they have ruled (sometimes in a preliminary aspect) that NO due process was afforded. And that *some* should be.
And interestingly when it comes to brass tacks, it appears that the DHS tried to do a 'whack a mole' (or as US District judge this week labeled a 'shell game') with the SCOTUS order that did come down, and also attempted to do a first move to spirit the last group away from a standing order to a district that didnt have one in place.
Those moves (which one Federal judge in yet another district characterized the notice and 'waiver' moves that reared their heads in Anson as a 'dodge'), and the entire structure of the government being noted as 'untruthful', 'deliberate evasions', and 'willful and intentional noncompliance' by another judge.
Again -- there is an easy way to do this, for all parties.
Do. It. The. Right. Way.
Apparently that seemingly cannot be part of the thought process in the Trump administration, or Noem. I hope that the mid-level and lower level personnel at DHS and ICE note the apparent lawlessness that unfortunately seems to be the calling card that is being more and more associated with them these days -- by no less than the judiciary itself.