more protests planned

Multiple rallies are planned across Texas cities this week for "No Kings Day" on Saturday, June 14, from the Panhandle to South Texas.

Ironically, June 14 is Flag Day. I wonder how many American flags will be burnt or trodden on that day by the peaceful defenders of democracy.

For that matter, I wonder how many cars will be torched and how many freeways closed.

All to glorify the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers of October 7. Go Hamas!! Kill those Jews!!! Rah rah rah.

Even in California, people are starting to divide the protester/rioters in two groups; the locals, mostly well intentioned useful idiots, and the professional agitators, organizing the demonstrations and responsible for most of the bad things.

So why are the professionals hired, and who hired them? Who is funding the riots?

Lots of possibles for who, but the why is obvious: to oppose Trump, to provide a platform of opposition and to promote negative press about him. Notice there is not one scintilla of concern for illegals in that statement. I don't think the organizers give a damn about the illegals. Just the politics. The "NO Kings" Day label shows it.

So the antiTrumpers are the impetus behind the rioting and "unrest". QED.

(06-11-2025 05:31 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 07:19 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 06:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(06-10-2025 02:53 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-05-2025 10:23 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  Neither side seems to want to walk away from it as it presently stands.

Israel certainly isnt seemingly interested in walking away at the current status quo.

Nor seemingly is Hamas.

And both seemingly are intent on wiping out the other. Both Israel trying to 'do in' Hamas, and conversely Hamas intent on destroying Israel. Unfortunately the position of destroying Hamas seems to take the form of destroying pretty much any basis of Palestinian self-rule within the Gaza territory. And that certainly seems to be the path on the West Bank. Not that I support either angle of destruction.

In short, what has to happen, and may never happen, is that both sides need to come to a position that neither side should endeavor violence to the other as a political end or as a kneejerk response to violence - kind of some point where each some generation of both sides not to 'rub out' the other. Kind of similar to N. Ireland -- a point I saw made elsewhere and tend to think is fairly apt.

But, at the current juncture, I dont see the stark merit you make in your last sentence. All the while I support Israel's right to self defend itselt -- *especially* in the light of 7-11

You probably didn't mean to do this... but you perfectly described the disconnect.

Israel is a nation. Hamas is a terrorist organization operating within 'Palestine'. As a result, Israel seeking to eliminate Hamas is not the same as Hamas seeking to eliminate Israel. One is Genocide... and it is coming from Hamas.

Hamas will NEVER compromise. They are dedicated to the destruction of Israel. What MUST happen is that Hamas must be eliminated.... not to resurface under a different name. How can you possibly compromise if your primary goal is the 'elimination' of the other side? Member or supporters of Hamas are certainly free to 'cease to be that'... but Hamas must be eliminated... and it has to come from Palestinians. Palestinians must vocally and physically and loudly renounce and reject and 'help 'ferret out' Hamas and its network.

Failing that, we're merely kicking the can down the road by any peace accord.

(06-06-2025 01:52 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  You don’t aim “near” something if you intend to hit it. If that is the intent, you aim AT it.

This.
A perfect example is many of the videos I've seen in LA of the police shooting rubber bullets. They are clearly aiming at the ground, and in one instance, a reporter was hit by a ricochet.... which obviously still hurts, but has far less impact than direct fire. The police, having shot the round, absolutely ARE responsible for what happens when they discharge their weapons... but the intent to avoid serious injury is clear... as riot control/security forced are often taught.

Part of the reason Lad would never be taught other than to shoot to 'stop' would be because he's not as protected from collateral damage from a 'warning shot' as he is if he feels he has no choice but to 'shoot to stop'.

Ham, you also perfectly to described the disconnect by those on the right.

Israel, the state/government, has responded to a terrorist organization by, at this point, excessively punishing the population of the country the terrorist organization operates out of. And while I agree that Palestinians must denounce Hamas, but in the absence of that, Israel should not be cavalier with collateral damage and effectively punish a population for the sins of the neighboring group, regardless of how reprehensible the acts were/are.

That same logic is why Hamas’ terror attack was so gross - they targeted citizens of a country.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, despite how hard both sides try to make it so.

Two wrongs are also not equal.

Hamas adds a wrong every day they have hostages. Times the number of hostages. Including the ones they killed by starvation and maltreatment.

If fighting oppressive invaders who want to annihilate you is wrong, then D-Day was wrong. London withstanding the blitz was wrong. And Guadalcanal was wrong.

And Hamas did not just target citizens of a country - they targeted members of a religion, and an ethnic group.

No reasonable person can argue that it’s wrong for Israel to defend itself from Hamas. And I don’t think you’ll find anyone here who aligns with your strawman.

The issue I, and others, point out is that Israel’s response extends beyond just harming/killing members of Hamas. Not only is there direct collateral damage from their military actions, they’ve killed NGO workers directly, and have implemented policies restricting aid that are directly impacting Gazans. If Israel had limited their actions to focused strikes, not been so negligent around NGO workers, and not restricted the flow of aid into Gaza, I believe you would see a very different reaction.

I doubt that there would be a different reaction, but that is the road not taken.

War is hell, and is notorious for collateral damage. Hamas hides itself under hospitals and schools - where is this targeted response supposed to go? The empty desert? Is Hamas going to oblige by marching a platoon out away from civilians?

So I go back to the old method: who started it? Is Israel at fault for the Gazan suffering, in the same way the US was at fault for the suffering of Japanese and german civilians in WW II? Is that your position? Would you have been antiUSA in 1944? Or is Hamas, the governors of Gaza, responsible?

There is a slogan we often hear from Jews: "Never again". The response by Israel toward an implacable enemy is based on that. I think never again is a good goal. I don't think half measures do that job. Half measures say, "well Ok, just this once."

Thank you for your response.

(06-11-2025 08:22 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  more protests planned

Multiple rallies are planned across Texas cities this week for "No Kings Day" on Saturday, June 14, from the Panhandle to South Texas.

Ironically, June 14 is Flag Day. I wonder how many American flags will be burnt or trodden on that day by the peaceful defenders of democracy.

For that matter, I wonder how many cars will be torched and how many freeways closed.

All to glorify the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers of October 7. Go Hamas!! Kill those Jews!!! Rah rah rah.

Even in California, people are starting to divide the protester/rioters in two groups; the locals, mostly well intentioned useful idiots, and the professional agitators, organizing the demonstrations and responsible for most of the bad things.

So why are the professionals hired, and who hired them? Who is funding the riots?

Lots of possibles for who, but the why is obvious: to oppose Trump, to provide a platform of opposition and to promote negative press about him. Notice there is not one scintilla of concern for illegals in that statement. I don't think the organizers give a damn about the illegals. Just the politics. The "NO Kings" Day label shows it.

So the antiTrumpers are the impetus behind the rioting and "unrest". QED.

So now the beef is with *future* *planned* protests. Cool cool.

The absolute HORROR of *future* *planned* protests.

The UMBRAGE due for *future* *planned* protests.

And hate to tell you, the issues with Trump actually do run *far* wider than illegals. How DARE *any* protests not center on illegal immigration, and may actually run to ‘other issues’. *GASP!!!!*

Lolz.

(06-11-2025 08:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 08:22 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  more protests planned

Multiple rallies are planned across Texas cities this week for "No Kings Day" on Saturday, June 14, from the Panhandle to South Texas.

Ironically, June 14 is Flag Day. I wonder how many American flags will be burnt or trodden on that day by the peaceful defenders of democracy.

For that matter, I wonder how many cars will be torched and how many freeways closed.

All to glorify the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers of October 7. Go Hamas!! Kill those Jews!!! Rah rah rah.

Even in California, people are starting to divide the protester/rioters in two groups; the locals, mostly well intentioned useful idiots, and the professional agitators, organizing the demonstrations and responsible for most of the bad things.

So why are the professionals hired, and who hired them? Who is funding the riots?

Lots of possibles for who, but the why is obvious: to oppose Trump, to provide a platform of opposition and to promote negative press about him. Notice there is not one scintilla of concern for illegals in that statement. I don't think the organizers give a damn about the illegals. Just the politics. The "NO Kings" Day label shows it.

So the antiTrumpers are the impetus behind the rioting and "unrest". QED.

So now the beef is with *future* *planned* protests. Cool cool.

The absolute HORROR of *future* *planned* protests.

The UMBRAGE due for *future* *planned* protests.

And hate to tell you, the issues with Trump actually do run *far* wider than illegals. How DARE *any* protests not center on illegal immigration, and may actually run to ‘other issues’. *GASP!!!!*

Lolz.

TIL that planning a protest against Trump's policies is tantamount to cheering for Hamas and celebrating the killing of Jews. Who knew?

(06-11-2025 08:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 08:44 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 08:22 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  more protests planned

Multiple rallies are planned across Texas cities this week for "No Kings Day" on Saturday, June 14, from the Panhandle to South Texas.

Ironically, June 14 is Flag Day. I wonder how many American flags will be burnt or trodden on that day by the peaceful defenders of democracy.

For that matter, I wonder how many cars will be torched and how many freeways closed.

All to glorify the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers of October 7. Go Hamas!! Kill those Jews!!! Rah rah rah.

Even in California, people are starting to divide the protester/rioters in two groups; the locals, mostly well intentioned useful idiots, and the professional agitators, organizing the demonstrations and responsible for most of the bad things.

So why are the professionals hired, and who hired them? Who is funding the riots?

Lots of possibles for who, but the why is obvious: to oppose Trump, to provide a platform of opposition and to promote negative press about him. Notice there is not one scintilla of concern for illegals in that statement. I don't think the organizers give a damn about the illegals. Just the politics. The "NO Kings" Day label shows it.

So the antiTrumpers are the impetus behind the rioting and "unrest". QED.

So now the beef is with *future* *planned* protests. Cool cool.

The absolute HORROR of *future* *planned* protests.

The UMBRAGE due for *future* *planned* protests.

And hate to tell you, the issues with Trump actually do run *far* wider than illegals. How DARE *any* protests not center on illegal immigration, and may actually run to ‘other issues’. *GASP!!!!*

Lolz.

TIL that planning a protest against Trump's policies is tantamount to cheering for Hamas and celebrating the killing of Jews. Who knew?

OO seems to joining the raw nerve about protests portion of the Trump supporter faction.

Aimed at his military birthday parade, Trump's direct comments --

Quote:"If there’s any protester that wants to come out, they will be met with very big force"

"I haven’t even heard about a protest, but you know, this is people that hate our country, but they will be met with very heavy force."

There seems to bucoo anxiety about protesting around that political realm.

(06-11-2025 08:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  TIL that planning a protest against Trump's policies is tantamount to cheering for Hamas and celebrating the killing of Jews. Who knew?

We already knew that criticizing President Trump is treason. So it is not a big surprise that criticizing President Trump is also pro-Hamas and antisemitic. I assume it is communist, satanic, and pornographic too.

The protestors probably read Art Spiegelman's Maus, which clearly should be banned, so definitely do not read it.

(06-11-2025 10:16 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 08:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  TIL that planning a protest against Trump's policies is tantamount to cheering for Hamas and celebrating the killing of Jews. Who knew?

We already knew that criticizing President Trump is treason. So it is not a big surprise that criticizing President Trump is also pro-Hamas and antisemitic. I assume it is communist, satanic, and pornographic too.

The protestors probably read Art Spiegelman's Maus, which clearly should be banned, so definitely do not read it.

News to me that criticizing Trump is treason. I wonder if anybody has told CNN, MSNBC, AOC, Jeffries, Crockett, the View, et al. Not a one of them in prison. Not a one arrested.

Just lies.

Planning a peaceful protest is not treason.

Peacefully protesting is not treason.

Peacefully protesting on behalf of Jew murderers and Jew haters is not a good thing, but legal.

Looting, arson, etc are crimes, other than treason. No matter what cause one is using as an excuse.

Who burned those cars? Who will burn cars this weekend? Who threw rocks and bottles at police? Not MAGA supporters. Your friends.

Shouldn't have to explain this to yall. But in your Trumpmania, I guess I do.

What is it about Trump that makes you fall on the side of arson and murder? What is it that makes you support illegal entry into the USA? Anything goes, as long as it goes against Trump?

What I SAID is that the people planning, organizing, funding, and fomenting these unpeaceful demonstrations are motivated not by the "plight" of illegal immigrants, but by a desire to damage Trump. Not only have either of you failed to address that, but your responses would tend to confirm it. I guess the rule of law does not extend to immigration law.

Nobody is above the law, unless they have successfully illegally crossed the border and made their way to a sanctuary city. It's like baseball - if you steal the base, you get to stay there.

(06-10-2025 06:50 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  Ham, you also perfectly to described the disconnect by those on the right.

I'm sure I didn't... but let's continue anyway.

Quote:Israel, the state/government, has responded to a terrorist organization by, at this point, excessively punishing the population of the country the terrorist organization operates out of. And while I agree that Palestinians must denounce Hamas, but in the absence of that, Israel should not be cavalier with collateral damage and effectively punish a population for the sins of the neighboring group, regardless of how reprehensible the acts were/are.

That same logic is why Hamas’ terror attack was so gross - they targeted citizens of a country.

THIS is where your comparison fails.... and why your argument doesn't work.

Israel is very clearly targeting Hamas. Hamas is embedded within the population... so the population is 'collateral damage'. Israel has gone to EXTREME lengths to telegraph many of their operations... with a recent complaint from your side of this argument being that they recently 'ONLY' gave two hours notice before an attack.... as if they are required to give ANY notice at all before an attack?? Has Hamas EVER given any notice like that? Hell... does almost ANYONE ever do that during a war?? Did Hamas strike a military target to rekindle this war?? Did they target a 'militant political movement' within the Israeli population?? The answer to all of those is 'no'. The only reason you see a disconnect in my comment is that you ignore the differences between targeting terrorists that despite efforts to minimize it, kills innocent civilians.... and ACTUALLY targeting civilians.

As I said... Wars are nasty and innocent people die. That is why wars should be ended as quickly as possible. On that part, we agree... but to act as if the two sides are 'equally yoked' is preposterous.

Quote:Two wrongs don’t make a right, despite how hard both sides try to make it so.

From this perspective, I expect you to be 'against' abortion in the case of rape or incest... since two wrongs don't make a right. What about murderers being incarcerated? You won't be bringing the person back, so I guess we shouldn't incarcerate, much less execute them. Maybe if this were a schoolyard clash, your logic would hold weight... but this is war.

Obviously the purpose of going after Hamas in Gaza is to prevent future attacks... which Hamas PROMISES.... which is also part of why every society locks up murderers and rapists... If Palestinians were quick to isolate members of Hamas, Israel could avoid ALL civilian casualties.... but there is little to suggest that they even try.... yet still, hope springs eternal. All it would take to begin a cease-fire would be for the political leadership of the Palestinians to 'turn' on Hamas... whether they rooted them out themselves, or they assisted/worked with IDF or other international forces to root them out.... I am 100% convinced that Israel would 'stand down' while that took place.

Please tell me what you think Israel could do to cause Hamas to 'give up' their goal of eliminating Israel? Serious question... I'd like a serious answer.

(06-10-2025 11:22 PM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  Fact check

GHF stated, "All aid was distributed today without incident. No injuries or fatalities. We have heard that these fake reports have been actively fomented by Hamas. They are untrue and fabricated." The organization added, "We’re scaling up as quickly as possible, but the truth is stark: for every truck we successfully bring into our network, other humanitarian groups are being looted before reaching those in need."

You'd THINK this would carry some weight. You'd also think that they would be the first people the Press went to to see what happened... and mostly that THEIR story would be the lede... with everything else being mentioned, but downplayed as unreliable because of the sources.... that is both the IDF AND Hamas... and given the history, that's being generous to Hamas.

I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror') at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'.... which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested. Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

You lost the election. Republicans were JUST AS UPSET about Biden ignoring immigration laws and putting gender and race above excellence and being gaslight about the President's mental acuity and the targeting of political enemies as you guys are..... but I challenge you to show me the same sort of nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected.

And don't start with 1/6. That wasn't nationwide, nor did it last beyond that singular event.

(06-11-2025 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror') at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'.... which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested. Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

You lost the election. Republicans were JUST AS UPSET about Biden ignoring immigration laws and putting gender and race above excellence and being gaslight about the President's mental acuity and the targeting of political enemies as you guys are..... but I challenge you to show me the same sort of nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected.

And don't start with 1/6. That wasn't nationwide, nor did it last beyond that singular event.

And no arson was involved, and guided tours were given.

Just saw that 3 "protesters' have been arrested...with guns.

Guess they take defending democracy seriously.

Or maybe they are just thugs.

(06-11-2025 11:56 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 10:16 AM)Gravy Owl Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 08:57 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  TIL that planning a protest against Trump's policies is tantamount to cheering for Hamas and celebrating the killing of Jews. Who knew?

We already knew that criticizing President Trump is treason. So it is not a big surprise that criticizing President Trump is also pro-Hamas and antisemitic. I assume it is communist, satanic, and pornographic too.

The protestors probably read Art Spiegelman's Maus, which clearly should be banned, so definitely do not read it.

News to me that criticizing Trump is treason. I wonder if anybody has told CNN, MSNBC, AOC, Jeffries, Crockett, the View, et al. Not a one of them in prison. Not a one arrested.

Just lies.

Planning a peaceful protest is not treason.

Peacefully protesting is not treason.

Peacefully protesting on behalf of Jew murderers and Jew haters is not a good thing, but legal.

If people want to go out and protest against Trump there are multiple valid reasons to do so. Saying that if you protest then you are doing so "on behalf of Jew murderers and Jew haters" is ridiculous.

Quote:Looting, arson, etc are crimes, other than treason. No matter what cause one is using as an excuse.

Who burned those cars? Who will burn cars this weekend? Who threw rocks and bottles at police? Not MAGA supporters. Your friends.

Whose friends? Nobody on this forum supports Hamas. Almost everybody who has posted about this issue has echoed Lad's recent post (of course Israel should be able to defend themselves and respond to the Hamas terrorism, but in doing so they are often crossing the line when it comes to protecting civilian lives).

Nobody throwing bottles at the police is my friend. Quit being hyperbolic.

Quote:Shouldn't have to explain this to yall. But in your Trumpmania, I guess I do.

You are making less and less sense the further you dig yourself into this Fox News hole that you've been living in for the past year. You aren't explaining anything successfully.

Quote:What is it about Trump that makes you fall on the side of arson and murder? What is it that makes you support illegal entry into the USA? Anything goes, as long as it goes against Trump?

Who supports this? Stop being so hyperbolic.

Quote:What I SAID is that the people planning, organizing, funding, and fomenting these unpeaceful demonstrations are motivated not by the "plight" of illegal immigrants, but by a desire to damage Trump. Not only have either of you failed to address that, but your responses would tend to confirm it. I guess the rule of law does not extend to immigration law.

You are talking to GravyOwl here? I don't recall him participating save for his tongue-in-cheek response above.

I asked you for some evidence that these are planned protests funded by shadowy sources and you haven't responded. You seem to be obtaining your insight into the inner monologues of the protesters from the Twitter postings of the Laura Loomers of the world. Honestly you used to be so much better than that. What happened to you?

(06-11-2025 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror')

We are poking fun at OOs consternation over a *planned* protest. Which *he* then conflates to burned cars and all the other stuff he does.

Quote:at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'....

See above.

let me repeat OO's own words there: "I wonder how many American flags will be burnt or trodden on that day by the peaceful defenders of democracy.

For that matter, I wonder how many cars will be torched and how many freeways closed.

All to glorify the rapists, murderers, and kidnappers of October 7. Go Hamas!! Kill those Jews!!! Rah rah rah."

Quote:which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested.

There is a huge difference between 'can become' and UNDENIABLY becomes, mind you.

Quote:Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

And that is OOs thought process spelled out above. Which, for the vast massive part -- is simply bunk. And you seem to repeat the invariable false (for vast part) characterization above en gross.

Quote:Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

Nobody supports criminal acts. I literally dont see a single mainstream soul supporting or defending criminal acts in the unrest.

Complaining about a en event, further complaining about a *future* event, further complaining about an event because it is *planned* -- is just flipping idiotic.

Quote:You lost the election. Republicans were JUST AS UPSET about Biden ignoring immigration laws and putting gender and race above excellence and being gaslight about the President's mental acuity and the targeting of political enemies as you guys are..... but I challenge you to show me the same sort of nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected.

I challenge you to show *any* sort of mainstream "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected" that you so rhetorically complain about. Ham, thats a bull**** rhetorical comment you just made in that regard.

To equate a 'planned event' that protests Trumps actions in general to "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence" is simply over the top rhetoric.

And for every shitbird lefty extremist that fits your broad as the galaxy "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence" I hazard to guess I can find an equal number of dumb*** Proud Boys, Bugaloos, etc etc etc that called for an explicit overthrow of the governmental system on 1/6.

If you want to equate wack job extremists to wack job extremists -- go right ahead. Kind of equal on that level.

If instead your equivalence of a generalized planned protest to "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence" is not even worth discussing. Which seems to be case when you include 'the left lost the election' as your intro to that idea. Feel free to clarify if that is not the case.

Quote:And don't start with 1/6. That wasn't nationwide, nor did it last beyond that singular event.

Heres the 1/6 -- the folks who protested had an absolute right to protest. And no one condones an act of the right *to protest*. Or has condoned that. And no one ever ripped 1/6 for being a *planned* protest.

And there were absolutely folks who operated peacefully and lawfully in that shitshow. I know some of them, and know their backdrop first hand.

And quite honestly, the idea of 'judging size and scope' and/or temporal scope of violent acts of riot really becomes stupid after a while as an excuse mechanism as you attempt to do preemptively. Not to mention the idea that there has to be some integer non-zero number of fires to qualify as a riot, as I have seen promulgated.

(06-11-2025 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror') at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'.... which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested. Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

Please reference where anybody was excusing these criminal acts. On this forum or otherwise.

Quote:You lost the election. Republicans were JUST AS UPSET about Biden ignoring immigration laws and putting gender and race above excellence and being gaslight about the President's mental acuity and the targeting of political enemies as you guys are..... but I challenge you to show me the same sort of nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected.

Please reference these nation-wide calls for looting and violence. Who are "you guys"? Nobody on this forum supports these riots. Many of us have spoken against them.

Do you think Tanq is a Democrat? Do you think I am an Democrat? If so... you don't read many posts here.

(06-11-2025 01:12 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  If people want to go out and protest against Trump there are multiple valid reasons to do so. Saying that if you protest then you are doing so "on behalf of Jew murderers and Jew haters" is ridiculous.

Pedantic, but I don't think it a stretch to say that those who protest in support of what Hamas is doing/does are doing so 'on behalf of Jew Murderers and Haters' is ridiculous. As you note, there are plenty of things to protest AGAINST what Israel does. Those are not the same things.

Quote:

Quote:Looting, arson, etc are crimes, other than treason. No matter what cause one is using as an excuse.

Who burned those cars? Who will burn cars this weekend? Who threw rocks and bottles at police? Not MAGA supporters. Your friends.

Whose friends? Nobody on this forum supports Hamas.

Pretty sure he's taliing about the LA immigration riots. Frankly, although there has been violence... I can't think of an Israel protest that I'd call a riot. One in particular was just a murder.

(06-11-2025 01:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror') at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'.... which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested. Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

Please reference where anybody was excusing these criminal acts. On this forum or otherwise.

Of course nobody with any skin in the game... meaning media or rational people... would openly SAY such a thing.... but it's obvious in the way these things are argued and debated. SAYING 'full stop' is not the same as there actually BEING a 'full stop'. It's just a way to attempt to distance ones-self from something that may well have been an intended result of at least SOME of the people 'on your side'. That's why I spoke about the 'riot gear'. I'm sure plenty of people were just exercising caution...to a far greater degree than average... but I'm also just as sure that SOME people had the intention of 'not stopping' until they had to.

Quote:Please reference these nation-wide calls for looting and violence. Who are "you guys"? Nobody on this forum supports these riots. Many of us have spoken against them.

Did something I said limit the discussion to those on this forum? My point stands that despite the same 'upset' about Biden and his actions and policies by the left, you DID NOT see

The idea that 'the right' can organize enough to beat Democrats in an election, but not organize enough to stage protests across the country like Democrats do is ridiculous... and the one I can think of (there may have been more) was the truckers... and I don't recall any rioting associated with that. On the other side, we somewhat routinely see rioting.

WHat is it that makes Democrats so violent? That's obviously tongue in cheek.

Quote:Do you think Tanq is a Democrat? Do you think I am an Democrat? If so... you don't read many posts here.

Lol... I don't even see that I typed 'democrats' in the area I think you're responding to. I don't think you guys are rioters.... or even aggressive protesters.

I think you both like mincing words. Democrat, leftists, liberal, never-Trumper... of course they all mean different things... but there is substantial overlap in many areas. I"m not a Republican either... but for the sake of the binary Biden/Trump comparison, it's close enough to describe those 'upset' about Biden.

The point remains and I'd be interested in your response... why you think 'Democrat' protests (define that how you will) turn violent so much more often than
'Republican' ones do?

(06-11-2025 01:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  We are poking fun at OOs consternation over a *planned* protest. Which *he* then conflates to burned cars and all the other stuff he does.

Do you REALLY not understand how the past few days protests and riots combined with MORE planned such events relates to my comment about 'fatigue' of leftist outrage??

Quote:

Quote:which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested.

There is a huge difference between 'can become' and UNDENIABLY becomes, mind you.

Of course there is. Do you think these stores that were looted in LA over the past few days had something to do with the purpose of these protests? Or do you think they were just an excuse?

Quote:

Quote:Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

And that is OOs thought process spelled out above. Which, for the vast massive part -- is simply bunk. And you seem to repeat the invariable false (for vast part) characterization above en gross.

false characterization??
bunk?
Please connect the dots to your claim.

Maybe you just don't understand the sarcasm. OF COURSE nobody is actually looting a store because Trump is acting like a king.... It's just an excuse for criminals to loot a store. That's the entire point.

Quote:

Quote:Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

Nobody supports criminal acts. I literally dont see a single mainstream soul supporting or defending criminal acts in the unrest.

Complaining about a en event, further complaining about a *future* event, further complaining about an event because it is *planned* -- is just flipping idiotic.

I'll try and explain it more clearly. Please don't 'attack' an attempt to reach understanding that might over or under-state reality.

Far too often... leftists protests turn into riots and become 'catch-alls' for violence and theft. The riots (in part because they draw all the police, plus they draw all the media) become COVER for acts of violence and crimes UNRELATED to the protest like store lootings and as an example... burning LAPD cars in a protest over ICE.

Quote:I challenge you to show *any* sort of mainstream "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected" that you so rhetorically complain about. Ham, thats a bull**** rhetorical comment you just made in that regard.

Both of you and your feigned outrage over 'rhetoric'.

How about I say it more simply.

Both times Trump won the election, there have been riots and looting across the country. Did ANY of that happen when Trump lost? And don't tell me 'Trump was worse than Biden' because NO MAGA Trumpers (those most likely to have protested Biden) would agree with you... and don't claim Jan 6, because that was a single, isolated event and not part of a pattern we saw echoed across the country.

Here's the thing... NONE of that is directed at you personally. NOBODY suspects you participated in ANY of that... We're just doing a reality check and making sure you note the differences between how these awful Trump supporters act when they lose an election, and how these awful anti-trumpers act when they lose.

Quote:And for every shitbird lefty extremist that fits your broad as the galaxy "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence" I hazard to guess I can find an equal number of dumb*** Proud Boys, Bugaloos, etc etc etc that called for an explicit overthrow of the governmental system on 1/6.

If you want to equate wack job extremists to wack job extremists -- go right ahead. Kind of equal on that level.

Great. If they are 'kind of equal' then you should be able to show me similar pictures of looted stores and burned cars and bricks thrown off of overpasses as a result of Jan 6, the truck convoys or any other 'Anti-Biden Policy' protest as what we see in LA or saw a few years ago.

I'll grant you that there are right wing extremists advocating for the overthrow of the government... but why is the FREQUENCY of actual violence and destruction so much higher from the left?

I mean, the fact that when you compare these ICE protesters to PROUD BOYS, the ICE protesters come out as the more violent and destructive ones, that's not a good sign.

Quote:And quite honestly, the idea of 'judging size and scope' and/or temporal scope of violent acts of riot really becomes stupid after a while as an excuse mechanism as you attempt to do preemptively. Not to mention the idea that there has to be some integer non-zero number of fires to qualify as a riot, as I have seen promulgated.

You're deflecting and dodging.

I don't care that these protests were planned. That's a red-herring you guys are posting. Neither does OO, I'm sure. He just spoke of 'more being planned'.... another 'leftist' summer. I'm sure the trucker protests across the country were planned. I just think it's hard to claim you went there to peacefully protest if you show up in riot gear. Obviously you had SOME expectation that it would turn violent.... and planned to resist it anyway.

As for the number of fires... that was an obviously snarky response to the repeated leftist deflections about these 'mostly peaceful' leftist riots. Your attempts to make it 'serious' are obvious. It's only serious in the sense that if THOSE were mostly peaceful, then ANY event with fewer deaths, less destruction, fewer fires etc etc could/should also be described that way. That's really just an exercise in logic to root out hypocrisy, and not a litmus test of reality. I think you know this, which makes the above, no matter how erudite... a deflection.

The comparisons of violence and destruction between Pro and Anti-Trump protesters is pretty stark... and I'd think anyone would want to try and look at 'why'.

I understand though why Anti-Trump, but not necessarily pro-leftists would want to deflect from this. Of ALL people... YOU guys wish these morons would do a better job of managing their complaints. It's impossible to defend them and they're deflecting the focus from your 'reasonable' issues with their destruction... and because you can't defend them, and of course don't want to attack them... you seem to have to attack 'the other side'.... or at the very least, accuse us of 'defending' this side.

The reality is, although I disagree with the tactic because I disagree with the argument, I see nothing legally wrong with what Dems are doing in terms of trying to thwart Trump's agenda through the courts. I equate that to what Trump did in response to the 2020 election in the states. I also see nothing wrong with what happened 1/6, short of specific people who engaged in violence and destruction... and would say the same about most of the student protests... though I think people here on a VISA need to keep their noses clean.

Here... I see nothing wrong with peacefully protesting ICE.... at an ICE facility. I draw the line though when they start to try and impact field 'enforcement' actions. That's not a protest.... and it puts innocent lives in danger

(06-11-2025 04:47 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 01:12 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  We are poking fun at OOs consternation over a *planned* protest. Which *he* then conflates to burned cars and all the other stuff he does.

Do you REALLY not understand how the past few days protests and riots combined with MORE planned such events relates to my comment about 'fatigue' of leftist outrage??

So the mode of expressing fatigue at the 'outrage' is to preemptively conflate everything that is planned to automatic tallies of burned cars. Doesnt sound so smart to me. Which is *precisely* and *explicity* what he does. Among a number of really kneejerk and and thin automatic generalizations.

Yeah, how dare some note that mockingly.

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested.

There is a huge difference between 'can become' and UNDENIABLY becomes, mind you.

Of course there is. Do you think these stores that were looted in LA over the past few days had something to do with the purpose of these protests? Or do you think they were just an excuse?

Rather immaterial when one's position

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

And that is OOs thought process spelled out above. Which, for the vast massive part -- is simply bunk. And you seem to repeat the invariable false (for vast part) characterization above en gross.

false characterization??
bunk?
Please connect the dots to your claim.

Maybe you just don't understand the sarcasm. OF COURSE nobody is actually looting a store because Trump is acting like a king.... It's just an excuse for criminals to loot a store. That's the entire point.

Then I suggest you lecture OO, and not those who responded to those explicit comments and mocked them.

Quote:I'll try and explain it more clearly. Please don't 'attack' an attempt to reach understanding that might over or under-state reality.

Absolutely.

Quote:Far too often... leftists protests turn into riots and become 'catch-alls' for violence and theft. The riots (in part because they draw all the police, plus they draw all the media) become COVER for acts of violence and crimes UNRELATED to the protest like store lootings and as an example... burning LAPD cars in a protest over ICE.

[/quote]

I think that is a rather broad generalization.

Quote:

Quote:I challenge you to show *any* sort of mainstream "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected" that you so rhetorically complain about. Ham, thats a bull**** rhetorical comment you just made in that regard.

Both of you and your feigned outrage over 'rhetoric'.

Id prefer that you back up your statement above re: bolded. You *explicitly* noted "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected". Please back that up instead of deflecting.

Quote:How about I say it more simply.

Absolutely.

Quote:Both times Trump won the election, there have been riots and looting across the country. Did ANY of that happen when Trump lost?

There absolutely was a riot when Trump lost. Not looting. But you have previously said you dont want to get into a 'metric' game about which is 'worse or larger'.

But ABSOLUTELY the right rioted when Trump lost. 100%.

Quote:And don't tell me 'Trump was worse than Biden' because NO MAGA Trumpers (those most likely to have protested Biden) would agree with you... and don't claim Jan 6, because that was a single, isolated event and not part of a pattern we saw echoed across the country.

Cool -- you ask literally "Did any of that [rioting] take place" when Trump lost. Then magically state 'except dont include the riot that happened when trump lost.' Neat deflection.

Next, I will have to say your initial question is very inartfully stated and asked.

"Both times Trump won the election, there have been riots and looting across the country." No -- neither time 'when Trump won the election' there were riots. A false premise right out of the bag.

The riots occurred under Trump's tenure, once when George Floyd was killed, and outrage over that boiled over. The second is kind of, but not at the point of -- maybe now. Again, not because of an election. Mainly because of the very real appearance of authoritarianism is this regime.

In both cases, the issues are over perceived violations of very tangible fundamental rights. Rightfully or wrongfully, the Floyd riots were sparked and maintained over ideas of racial injustice in policing. Not because 'Trump was elected' as you allude to above.

Wash rinse repeat for the current time. The issue at hand is multifold, in fact. The idea that the DHS and Trump think it proper to simply rendition folks is pretty sick at the very first. Stack on top of it a heavy hand in calling out the Nat Guard, and zip lining a flipping battalion of Marines to a US city tacks on to that.  Again, not because 'Trump was elected' as you allude to above.

Quote:Here's the thing... NONE of that is directed at you personally. NOBODY suspects you participated in ANY of that... We're just doing a reality check and making sure you note the differences between how these awful Trump supporters act when they lose an election, and how these awful anti-trumpers act when they lose.

The Trump folks rioted when he lost, notwithstanding your attempts to whitewash that out of consideration. And they rioted *literally* because of his loss.

Anti-trumpers -- well you got all sorts of individual issues cleanly categorized in that broad catch all. Without regard to racial policing issues, nor with respect to the spectre of active military on the streets of a major US metropolitan area at what seems to be the drop of hat.

Quote:

Quote:And for every shitbird lefty extremist that fits your broad as the galaxy "nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence" I hazard to guess I can find an equal number of dumb*** Proud Boys, Bugaloos, etc etc etc that called for an explicit overthrow of the governmental system on 1/6.

If you want to equate wack job extremists to wack job extremists -- go right ahead. Kind of equal on that level.

Great. If they are 'kind of equal' then you should be able to show me similar pictures of looted stores and burned cars and bricks thrown off of overpasses as a result of Jan 6, the truck convoys or any other 'Anti-Biden Policy' protest as what we see in LA or saw a few years ago.

Cool. Back to the 'define a riot by the numbers of fire and looters' I take it?

Quote:

Quote:And quite honestly, the idea of 'judging size and scope' and/or temporal scope of violent acts of riot really becomes stupid after a while as an excuse mechanism as you attempt to do preemptively. Not to mention the idea that there has to be some integer non-zero number of fires to qualify as a riot, as I have seen promulgated.

You're deflecting and dodging.

Judging by your explicit reference right above to the same scope, that doesnt seem to be a deflect or dodge. I mean, you literally *just made* that argument directly above.

Quote:I just think it's hard to claim you went there to peacefully protest if you show up in riot gear. Obviously you had SOME expectation that it would turn violent.... and planned to resist it anyway.

So if there is any expectation of any force on any side, one should never show up?

If I go to the No King protest, damn fing straight I am taking personal protective measures. And again you repeat an absolutely false canard in the bolded.

One can have some expectation of force being used, and can take such measures to protect themselves with ZERO plan and ZERO intent to 'resist'. If I attend, I plan on exercising my given 1st amendment right, and plan on exercising what should be a right of planning to not get hurt. By any action. Apparently to you that is sign of some weird culpability of aiding a riot or something related thereto. I find that very empty.

Quote:Here... I see nothing wrong with peacefully protesting ICE.... at an ICE facility. I draw the line though when they start to try and impact field 'enforcement' actions. That's not a protest.... and it puts innocent lives in danger

I see nothing wrong with protesting anything, pretty much anywhere. Note the word 'protest'. And there are only a few places that I would draw the line at 'where'. Someti9mes the where is directly related to the word 'when'.

And I agree -- when they impact field actions, the authorities have the ability to declare an illegal assembly. Which is what happened for the most part as the most extreme action on either side -- which lasted until Trump drove the proverbial armored personnel carrier into the fray, against the wishes and advice of the local authoritites, and directly bypassing the Governor of the state in whole.

Trump should have known that his heavy handed move re: the NG would absolutely escalalte the hell out of the issue. And it did.

(06-11-2025 03:50 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 01:12 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  If people want to go out and protest against Trump there are multiple valid reasons to do so. Saying that if you protest then you are doing so "on behalf of Jew murderers and Jew haters" is ridiculous.

Pedantic, but I don't think it a stretch to say that those who protest in support of what Hamas is doing/does are doing so 'on behalf of Jew Murderers and Haters' is ridiculous. As you note, there are plenty of things to protest AGAINST what Israel does. Those are not the same things.

Quote:

Quote:Looting, arson, etc are crimes, other than treason. No matter what cause one is using as an excuse.

Who burned those cars? Who will burn cars this weekend? Who threw rocks and bottles at police? Not MAGA supporters. Your friends.

Whose friends? Nobody on this forum supports Hamas.

Pretty sure he's taliing about the LA immigration riots. Frankly, although there has been violence... I can't think of an Israel protest that I'd call a riot. One in particular was just a murder.

Right... he's talking about the LA riots. But somehow he is equating somebody that is protesting the ICE roundups as being pro-Hamas. It's baffling.

Quote:

(06-11-2025 01:50 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  

(06-11-2025 12:42 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  I' literally laughing out loud at you guys and your 'made up' charges (that it's treason... that people are expressing 'horror') at people expressing their fatigue with your side's 'outrage'.... which UNDENIABLY becomes cover for people to commit criminal acts with absolutely ZERO connection to what is being protested. Trump is acting like a king, so I'm going to set fire to this random car. Trump is a bf guy, so I'm going to loot the convenience store.

Nobody has a problem with peaceful protests... and you guys know it. We're just tired of the excuses for criminal acts.

Please reference where anybody was excusing these criminal acts. On this forum or otherwise.

Of course nobody with any skin in the game... meaning media or rational people... would openly SAY such a thing.... but it's obvious in the way these things are argued and debated.

So only the ridiculous extremists would excuse these criminal acts? So maybe quit implying that a wide swatch of liberals are condoning it. Because, like Tanq said... if you want to imply that ridiculous extremists represent Democrats the right side has their own share of ridiculous extremists. I don't think alt-right people represent most Republicans...

Quote: BecauseSAYING 'full stop' is not the same as there actually BEING a 'full stop'. It's just a way to attempt to distance ones-self from something that may well have been an intended result of at least SOME of the people 'on your side'. That's why I spoke about the 'riot gear'. I'm sure plenty of people were just exercising caution...to a far greater degree than average... but I'm also just as sure that SOME people had the intention of 'not stopping' until they had to.

Quote:Please reference these nation-wide calls for looting and violence. Who are "you guys"? Nobody on this forum supports these riots. Many of us have spoken against them.

Did something I said limit the discussion to those on this forum?

Well, here is your quote:

"but I challenge you to show me the same sort of nation-wide calls for and acts of looting and violence that you guys have now done BOTH TIMES Trump has been elected."

You guys? You seem to imply that people here own these calls for and acts of looting and violence. How else should one read this?

Quote:My point stands that despite the same 'upset' about Biden and his actions and policies by the left, you DID NOT see

The idea that 'the right' can organize enough to beat Democrats in an election, but not organize enough to stage protests across the country like Democrats do is ridiculous... and the one I can think of (there may have been more) was the truckers... and I don't recall any rioting associated with that. On the other side, we somewhat routinely see rioting.

WHat is it that makes Democrats so violent? That's obviously tongue in cheek.

Quote:Do you think Tanq is a Democrat? Do you think I am an Democrat? If so... you don't read many posts here.

Lol... I don't even see that I typed 'democrats' in the area I think you're responding to. I don't think you guys are rioters.... or even aggressive protesters.

When you keep saying "you guys" it seems that you are referring to us. Maybe I don't read good though.

Quote:I think you both like mincing words. Democrat, leftists, liberal, never-Trumper... of course they all mean different things... but there is substantial overlap in many areas. I"m not a Republican either... but for the sake of the binary Biden/Trump comparison, it's close enough to describe those 'upset' about Biden.

I'm upset about Biden. What does that make me?

Quote:The point remains and I'd be interested in your response... why you think 'Democrat' protests (define that how you will) turn violent so much more often than
'Republican' ones do?

I think there is a group of miscreants who have decided that left-wing protests are an opportunity to wreak havoc and therefore they are drawn to these events and are good at subverting the intended message of the "regular" protestors to their message of "we'll resort to violence to make our point". The right wing protests doesn't seem to attract the same element for whatever reason although the Jan 6 protest to surely violent.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/illega...e53d&ei=30