(07-09-2021 08:21 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-09-2021 07:55 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  

(07-08-2021 06:33 PM)tanqtonic Wrote:  

(07-08-2021 05:00 PM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  The responses from you and Tanq haven't touched on the validity of the right to repair argument, which seem very off base given that this has been a topic of discussion for years.

Actually I put out three very good reasons to the contrary of it earlier. That is, the rationales of why Deere doesnt want people to touch embedded code. But, you changed that to a spirited defense that Deere in fact does not do what I said was its policy.

As to the policy itself, extend those in some form across the board to lower level issues. Yes, you should be able to change your sparkplug. But no, a company may have valid reasons to keep Farmer John from having a carte blanche to say, limit the spin rate of a thresher by software. Or, other intricate internals when those internals can easily put a manufacturer at risk of suit.

Dispositive? No. But, the rationale for 'full jailbreak' isnt either, mind you.

Happens all the time. <Anecdote warning so you shut off your ears if need be> As a babe 1st-2nd year attorney back in the Paleolithic, when I did the suit and tie and did court fairly regularly, there were a plethora of first hand cases I saw where some dumb*** changed the internal workings of a complex piece of machinery and injured themselves or others -- then turned around and sued the mfgerer. But of course, real life instances never count in the lad view of things, so why bother noting them.

Cant wait to tell old man Arlen his diagnostic rig and software doesnt exist because some internet poster says it doesnt. Maybe arlen should get his money back.

This was my specific response to when you said your friend was able to get the diagnostic tool:

"Everything I've read indicates the opposite of what you said in bold - independent farmers can't actually get their hands on diagnostic machines. Are these stories not true? Or are they missing something?"

Is that me saying it doesn't exist? I don't think so. The way this went, was you providing evidence that was counter to what I've read so I asked for clarification. You provided that in the article, which made it clear that not everyone was like your friend Arlen - there are John Deere owners who can't get their hands on said equipment, because, as the article said "It is also left up to the dealer as to whether or not they sell them to customers."

Your locking in to printed materials and dismissing actual gd world reality kind of led that. Leads me to believe the stories are missing something. Something that you find astonishing enough to to exclaim.

Seriously, your worldview which was shown by your comments of 'farmers get locked out for the stupidest reasons and *have* to go through Deere' was apparently fed by reading maybe on article that had someone say that. And you clung to that. I mean, you even challenged the premise that Deere draws the line at altering embedded code.

Had I known this was your current 'read one or two articles' and give us the world as it is, fk it, I wouldnt have even commented, even the one line that led down this insufferable waste of time.

An insight that, the guy down the dirt road and is on the corner of the FM and dirt easement road told me. He happens to be the local Deere head of store (not owner). But, I am sure that would have been short shrifted as well.

Quote:I agreed with you about restricting the ability to materially alter code that is actually integral for safety, emissions control, etc - that makes sense to me. We also seem to agree that this can go too far when a company, in essence, restricts the ability for someone to make repairs on their piece of equipment, especially when it comes to minor repairs and modifications.

Yes, I took your focus on the reason why Deere has reason to restrict the right to repair, without a discussion or acknowledgement of the other side, to be an opposition to the EO. I don't think that's much of a leap, it one at all. If someone is discussing the pros of something and the response focuses solely on the cons, without acknowledging the pros...

Kind of like the myopia you noted in talking about the poor farmers who got shut down and HAD to go through Deere.

But, I wasnt a 'leap to concolusions' type and assumed that your very large focus on that side made you opposed to the side I brought up as a counterpoint.

Quote:It will be interesting to see what rules the FTC makes after this EO is issued. We're likely far too far from anything concrete to be this in the weeds, but alas, it is The Quad.

Ive wasted way too much time on this inane sub-thread. Im off to price some Pre-Gen to make sure the burr plant thingies dont take over the hayfield.

Asking for clarification is NOT dismissing. Based on this response, both you and Ham seem to believe that, as soon as a personal anecdote is brought into the equation, all conversation must end and that perspective is THE perspective and any further conversation is dismissive or questioning someone's intelligence... oof.

I've been seeing discussions of the right-to-repair with regards to Deere for years - it's always piqued my interest because you don't typically see John Deere being discussed on technology sites/publications. It's absolutely been informed by articles and not in-person interactions, which is why I asked if the articles were missing something.