Well, my attempt to broker a constructive conversation here has failed so I'll move on

(06-29-2021 10:31 AM)Rice93 Wrote:  Of course it's an opinion. Of course you can't prove it. I believe doctors talk about what might be probable when the provide expert testimony? It isn't necessarily binary, correct?

But that's the point, 93... You're literally making it binary when you say what you're saying 'without Chauvin, he lives that day'. That's a purely binary outcome. While I believe one also can't say, with Fentanyl, he dies that day.... He DID die... and we're discussing a murder case. If he dies from Fentanyl, its not murder.

Now let me address the BIG issue.

With no hypoxia reported, it is extremely unlikely that Floyd dies from what Chauvin did, without the other factors.

Quote:If two people are given the same pill of Fentanyl and one has a history of taking Fentanyl on the reg and one doesn't... which of those two people are more likely to die that day?

If its a relatively low amount, like a clinical dose.... The one with the history is more likely to die.

If its a relatively high amount, it depends on lots of details that nobody knows. How high, how 'damaged' the regular user is and how 'healthy' the new guy is.

I think you assume that it is 'safer' for the habitual user to take the drug, but you're completely ignoring that a regular user is compromised... so they aren't starting from the same state of health. They have an enlarged heard, high blood pressure, likely untreated... the arteries are weakened relative to the average person.

Quote:I certainly think the Fentanyl made the situation worse. I don't think he dies that day if Chauvain acted appropriately. That's my opinion. I can't prove it.

He violated procedures for sure (it seems/testimony said)... but what you just described was 'reasonable doubt' in terms of some definitions of 'murder'.... because by the same token... someone WITHOUT Fentanyl likely doesn't die nor is even injured as a result of what Chauvin did.

This is the crux of the debate, IMO

(06-29-2021 10:32 AM)tanqtonic Wrote:  I actually did say the combination of stressors, bad heart, and reduced respiratory function due to Fentanyl was the toxic combination.

And, I did say that no one can point to any one of those. Funnily, not even the prosecution can point to a specific single modality of death.

That post, in its entirety, was written off as 'conjecture', which the last statement definitely was. The rest of that post had trial facts that were seemingly written off as 'loads conjecture' or somefink.

For the sake of honesty --- I did a back calculation on the dea data. I need to revise the 2-3 ng/mL to 5-7 or so based on the blood volume of a typical adult. I was wrong in that multiple.

In retrospect the 3-5x should not read as that. The double to almost double dosage per volume still speaks loudly as to the amount of fentanyl in Floyd.

Again, my comment was more general.... but you're right that it was a toxic combination.

IMO, It's a conversation between a layman seeking to right a wrong and a lawyer seeking to follow the laws.

What Chauvin did, despite the fact that it contributed to the death of Floyd and was beyond protocol.... was NOT by almost any definition, murder.



I'd ask those on the left... If you go running around a pool which is against the pool rules; and because you come up suddenly, you scare a woman with a heart issue and she dies... are you a murderer? If someone has a better example, please have at it.