(06-28-2021 01:44 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(06-28-2021 01:07 PM)Rice93 Wrote:  *edit* My overall point with this is combatting the notion that underlying health issues were behind Floyd's death rather than the actions of Chauvain. Certainly these issues could have made the situation worse but Floyd doesn't die without the unreasonable actions of Chauvain.

While I believe that Chauvin acted outside of what was (or should be) reasonable protocol and thus is not protected by the law for any even unknown or unsuspected results.... i.e. if you randomly decide to push a guy and he had a congenital issue that caused him to die as a result of the push, you are 'responsible' for his death, though it may not be 'murder'... cops have a great deal of responsibility when putting someone in custody IMO, and CHauvin violated that responsibility.... and a horrible thing happened as a result.

BUT... I don't know that it was actually determined beyond a reasonable doubt that Floyd doesn't die without the acts of Chauvin.

Here from the ME's report...

Quote:The Hennepin County Medical Examiner (HCME) said the cause of death was "cardiopulmonary arrest complicating law enforcement subdual restraint, and neck compression."

It continued to list arteriosclerotic and hypertensive heart disease, fentanyl intoxication and recent methamphetamine use as being significant conditions that were underlying causes in Floyd's cause of death.

Medical examiners said the fentanyl levels were at a potentially "fatal level," but that it was a combination of factors that led to Floyd's death.

So although the compressions were the 'last straw', without the other factors, you can't draw a conclusion that someone WITHOUT those other factors would have also died... OR that without the restraint, that they wouldn't have died.

I see what you're saying, but I don't think that there is any reason to believe that he would have died without the minutes of being restrained (choked?).

Quote:This is how death certs read...
The cause of death was cardiac arrest. The ACUTE (immediate/proximate) cause of the arrest was the compressions.... but they were complicated by a significant list of comorbidities... without which, maybe he doesn't die at all.

Its a bit like saying that someone who is a hemophiliac who gets stabbed and dies because his body can't stop the bleeding... without the hemophilia, he is much less likely to die.... and of course the 'stabber' didn't know that... but still... was it reasonable to stab someone else?? Of course not.

Agree... and the cardiac arrest was the finally heart stopping. Your stabbing victim would probably have a cause of death of cardiac arrest also (the bleeding doesn't "kill" you).