(02-03-2020 07:00 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(02-02-2020 03:56 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-28-2020 08:59 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 10:01 AM)bill dazzle Wrote:  

(01-23-2020 09:57 AM)Gamecock Wrote:  To me the mid majors are anyone outside of the P5 +Big East.

Doesn't mean that Wichita St, Gonzaga, Cincinnati, etc aren't elite level programs, but that's just reality.

It is almost almost impossible to describe Gonzaga, for example, as a "mid-major" and, for example, Northwestern (not to pick on NU) as a "power conference program." It simply makes no sense. Northwestern has been to one NCAA tourney (and that is just one example of the difference between the two programs). Northwestern has the Big Ten as home — and that is basically the only advantage it has on Gonzaga.

If a program is at a high-major level (as Wichita, Gonzaga and Cincy are, and as you correctly suggest), that program is not a "mid-major program," regardless of its league home. That's just how I see it. Others see it differently.

Sorry, that's just the way it is in my opinion. It doesn't mean the school can't be elite. Everyone knows that a win over Gonzaga is way more impressive than a win over Northwestern (or South Carolina). Just like in football where a win over Boise St says a whole lot more than a win over Rutgers. But "mid major" status is by definition based on what conference you play in.

What dictionary is that "definition" to be found in? I think you have "definition" confused with "opinion".

For the record, over the past six seasons (the length of time over which tournament units are paid out) eight conferences have averaged more than 2 at-large entries per year. They are:

ACC 6.2
XII 5.7
B1G 5.5
SEC 4.5
EAS 4.0
PAC 3.5
A10 2.3
AAC 2.2

No other conference has averaged 1 at large entry. MWC (0.8) and the WCC (0.7) come closest. The MVC also had a few years with more than the one autobid, but only while Wichita State was still in the conference. Otherwise, no MVC team would have received an at-large bid.

I agree, that’s why I draw the line between the PAC 12 and the A10 and AAC

Each of us can choose to draw that line where we think best. In my view, the A10 and AAC are closer to the PAC than they are to the WCC and MWC. But I have no problem with calling the six you prefer "power conferences" and calling the other four "near major" (I also hate the term "mid-major").

That being said, there are individual programs within those four conferences that I would classify as "major" programs. I came up with a list of 15 such schools, using the following criteria:

1. At least 3 NCAAT appearances in the last 7 years (the period for which I had data already at hand), OR

2. 2 NCAAT wins during that period, OR

3. Greater than 10,000 average attendance.

Those schools are, by conference:

AAC Cincinnati, Wichita State, Temple, Houston and Memphis

A10 VCU, Dayton, St Louis and Rhode Island

WCC Gonzaga, St Mary's and BYU

MWC San Diego State, Nevada and New Mexico

Non-Power Conference schools with the most NCAAT appearances:

7 Gonzaga
7 Cincinnati
6 VCU
5 Wichita State
4 San Diego State
4 Dayton
3 St Mary's
3 St Louis
3 Nevada

Teams with most tournament wins:

15 Gonzaga
9 Wichita State
5 Dayton
4 San Diego State
3 Cincinnati
3 Houston

Teams with greater than 10,000 average attendance:

12,957 Dayton
11,958 BYU
11,256 Cincinnati
11,107 New Mexico
10,885 San Diego State
10,878 Nevada
10,194 Wichita State

So, all told, I count 76 Power Conference teams and 15 Near Major Conference teams as major hoops programs (91 schools in total). Combined, these programs will fill nearly all of the NCAAT at-large spots in most years.

But that's just my opinion.