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(07-31-2017 08:00 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 07:11 PM)JackieTreehorn Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 06:36 PM)BearcatsUC Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 02:46 PM)#41 Wrote:  

(07-31-2017 01:36 PM)levydl Wrote:  I normally like these deeply cynical takes, but this is all wrong. Bike trails and the streetcar are wastes, but at the very very very very very least they are public projects. Most everyone agrees that transportation is the government's responsibility, for better or worse (I have a fondness for the anarcho-capitalist model myself, yet it's not well-regarded). But a soccer stadium? This guy was already handed a billion dollars, now he wants the taxpayers to give him $100 mil. more?

And the tax rebates used in the OTR project is a bit different than the Bengals' deal, which increased the sales tax. I surmise that Carl's son wants cash, not a tax scheme. But, in any case, the sex toy company deal was a couple hundred thousand dollars, not a hundred million--size matters (heeheeheehee). The sex toy company also put up a bunch of it's own money, as did the companies that funded 3CDC to redo OTR, so how would Carl III's paying half the cost be different?

The Wasson Way bike trail is going to cost upwards of $10M; all so that a bunch of upper-middle class dudes in lycra can ride a real bike instead of an exercise bike on my dime. Medpace got ~$15M to build in Madisonville. The Streetcar has cost a (well documented) $150M plus its annual operating expenses. The list goes on, and on, and on. General Electric takes in $120+ BILLION dollars per year in revenue, we still gave them breaks to build at the Banks because the city/county was desperate for someone to come in and occupy the real-estate there. Skip over this project and something dumber / less useful to me personally is going to take the money instead. There's a 0.0% chance Todd Portune & Denise Driehaus send tax money back to me, so may as well get a place to watch my soccer & get out of UC's hair in the process.

And you want Cynical takes? I'll drop another one for you: if we're going to engage in ridiculous corporate welfare and fund ridiculous projects, I'd rather fund projects from people like Uncle Carl (who have deep family ties to the region and are active in local philanthropy & places like UC) than shipping the money off to Europe for streetcars that break down or to GE's corporate headquarters in New York, etc. Part of what's wrong and sucks in this country now is that there simply aren't enough people with ties to a community / region who feel personally connected or indebted to an area.

As long as they aren't seeking to raise an additional tax on my property or what I buy, I'm good with giving FCC money for a stadium, so long as 1.) The taxpayers don't have to own it or maintain it like they do with Paul Brown and GABP and 2.) There are guarantees of fixed cost (no ridiculous "we need more money" like they went through building Paul Brown). From what I've read on Tax Increment Financing, it sounds like a win-win; soccer field gets built, money that is generated on surrounding area tax increases goes to fund.

You said a lot, but I'm going to focus only on GE...

There are 1,400 people currently working in that new GE building at The Banks. They are hiring 400 more this summer. According to GE, the average salary is $79,000. Annual payroll is expected to be $142m. GE gets to keep 85% of Cincinnati's payroll tax, which is roughly $2.5m annually at full employment. The state gave $51m credit. Property taxes were abated. GE is on the hook for 18 years.

Compare that to $100m to a soccer team in a league that is losing money. How many people will they hire?

Also, while you cite Lindner's long-standing commitment to the community, I ask how long have GE jet engines been made in Evendale? What do you suppose the economic impact of that facility is?

As a side note, GE cited the streetcar as one reason why they chose The Banks.

While I agree with your sentiment about corporate welfare, I would pick GE over soccer 100 times over and twice on Sunday.

Well said, and as TubaCat has posted earlier, sports venues have relatively poor return on investment with regard to the amount of public money spent on them.
UC has been able to essentially rebuild 5th/3rd and greatly enhance Nippert funded largely by donations. Why don't the Lindner's do the same? Hell, just sell seat licenses. I'm sure all the super duper soccer fans in the area will snap them up like hot cakes. I can see it now, "own a part of the Bailey".

o

I didn't even get into how UC has benefitted from GE's presence. Google it. Research collaboration where GE has invested $100m+. Graduate education programs going back to 1966. Co-ops. UC is getting a $250k 3D metal printer. And they don't ask to use our stadium.

AS one of said 1400 working at the banks, I can tell you the impact to Banks lunch crowd has been tremendous. Almost every restaurant at the banks filled with GE employees. Also the city is raking in the parking revenue on what otherwise would be empty spaces in the garage. $80/month X 1400 employees X 12 Months = More money than they had before.