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Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #61
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 12:12 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  It's amazing how quiet people are when they have their jobs threatened. Alot of people there kept quiet as to keep their job and support their family. That's life. Also faculty and staff were told of all this extra money they would have for pay raises, additional resources, etc... I guess Dr. Stanton knew about Obama's stimulus package that did all that back in 2003. He must've called the Psychic Friends Network.
BTW Slappy, Skittles were 50 percent off yesterday, though I'm more of a Starburst guy. I would have pegged you for a Jolly Rancher/Zima kinda person

but lover, again, you bash dave mullins for the same reason. you cant have it both ways....

as for the promises, thats politics. if you dont like it, there are private institutions to work/support.

yeah, i can see that. a rainbow of flavors you certainly seem to be
11-03-2011 12:27 PM
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BucNut22 Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 08:09 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 11:33 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:32 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 05:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?
You speak without knowledge sir.

enlighten me then...
Every dime spent on football is worth 10 spent on any other sport.

Its funny because I was having a conversation with one of the big boosters for the University of Cincinnati. This is a guy who has given A LOT of money to the athletic department, almost all of which was earmarked for football. He is currently distraught because despite all the money he has given to UC basketball, despite all the winning, the packed house on gameday, etc he is about to watch UC athletics take a major step backwards as a result of the conference realignment saga.

Albeit it may be too late but he understands now what you and others never have, FOOTBALL DRIVES THE BUS. He tells me last night "if we had invested and committed to football sooner it would be us not those rednecks from West Virginia getting that invite to the Big 12." Despite a long an illustrious basketball tradition going all the way back beyond Oscar Robertson, UC is about to get left out in the cold because of the state of its football program.

Even as a money drain football has more value for ETSU than any other sport. It has been proven time and again that schools with strong football programs attract and retain better students. Conferences looking to add members continue to seek out schools on the basis of football first and everything else second (why the Big 10 went after Nebraska and not Kansas).

UNC Charlotte AD Judy Rose, who kick starter their football renewal nailed it on the head.... "the question is not whether we can afford football, the question is whether we can afford NOT to have football."

Quote:"I have thought for a longtime that the landscape of intercollegiate athletics was going to change," said Rose. "My concern has been what would happen to a large public institution that did not have football. My fear has been that schools that don't have football might get left out of the mix in intercollegiate athletics all together. I would hate to have seen not having football to have become a major issue for our institution. The main reason for us to add football was to protect the rest of our athletic program."

Citing recent conference realignments, Rose said she believed that UNC Charlotte's options have been limited in the past because of the lack of a football program despite having an excellent basketball team.

"The last two conference expansions, they were not motivated by basketball, they were motivated by football," Rose said. "Why did the Big East take TCU, they are nowhere in that geographic region. It's because of football. And when Nebraska joins the Big Ten, it's because of football... This is all driven by football."
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/news_...teams.html

thanks for the lecture...now maybe you can answer MY question...and i will give it to you again....

FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now? As this relates to ETSU, NOT UC, NOT Nebraska, NOT TCU, NOT Charlotte
This is part of what you don't understand. Even as a money draining eye sore (caused by criminal negligence) ETSU football held up the athletic department. Of course Stanton and Mullins didn't understand this (among other things) until after they cut the program and were relegated to the sewer known as the A-Sun.

Despite the utter nonsense spewed by you Dave Mullins and others, winning at a lower level is NOT good for ETSU athletics. Why would football elevate other programs? Well that easy, football is required for advancement and advancement is good for EVERYONE. When ETSU plays UTC or App State in ANY sport, interest and attendance is higher. A stronger conferences is good for EVERYONE, even if that means not hoisting a worthless A-Sun trophy at the the end of the season. Why else would it help? Well let's just look to our former rivals at UTC.

Quote:“Overall, our finances have certainly grown in every measurable category – ticket sales, sponsorship, donations, and guaranteed games for football and men’s basketball,” he said. “That’s important. The past two years, football has certainly been the engine that pulled the train financially, so to speak.

On top of banking a hefty $2.2 million since 2006 (tell me again how many money games Paul and Dave tried to schedule while the program was cash strapped, oh that's right they were more interested in killing the sport than saving it) football allows you to negotiate agreements to play games in sports OTHER THAN FOOTBALL.

Why else would it help? Well believe it or not but there are these things called official visits, where prospective students athletes visit campuses to check them out, get a feel for the place, etc. These visits occur almost exclusively on the weekend (stop me if you know where this is going). Now having lived on the ETSU campus for 4 years, including 2 in Buc Ridge surrounded by athletes I have a pretty good idea of what happens on these visits. I've watched the girls soccer team host visitors in the fall, have watch the mens and women's basketball team host visitors in the fall, volleyball, etc (again stop me if you know where this is going). On several occasions I've been in the apartments of players when they've brought visitors over.

Do you know what the highlight of fall official visits are prior to November? A trip to the Culp Center and main meal. For the men's basketball team is might be a trip to the CPA or Quiznos. Do you know what current athletes often tell prospective athletes? "There isn't a whole lot to do on the weekend, we usually just hang out then go out at night."

I know you don't want to talk about other programs (after all why look at the schools who are doing it right). But for 95% of schools, falls visits for ANY SPORT are planned around big football weekends. Since fan attendance is often higher at football games than any other sporting event it allows programs to showcase the level of interest their school has in athletics. Believe it or not but even volleyball, soccer, cross country, basketball, and track athletes enjoy themselves at football games even if it isn't the sport they play.

Now I can go on since there is literally an UNLIMITED number of intended and unintended benefits to having a football program that transcends any dollar amount but I won't (mostly because I find talking to people with their head buried unrewarding and UC has a BIG RIVALRY FOOTBALL GAME this weekend that I need to prepare for).
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2011 12:44 PM by BucNut22.)
11-03-2011 12:27 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #63
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 11:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:13 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:07 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
Et tu, doctor? With all do respect, (and i read your posts and agree with mostly everything you say) were gonna disagree here on a couple things.
1. "there were hints two years prior about the possibility" What do you need...a sledgehammer over the head? Even with the assurance(whatever that is worth), did football attendence spike? Did financial contributions spike? Did the community even wimper? Students?
2. why is any "real" effort(or lack there of) to save football tied to etsu. Why couldnt some of the ardent supporters on this board put forth a "real" effort and contact the folks you listed? why?
3. name another constiuency within the university that can have a president thrown out with a simple vote...see Ron Beller? The faculty have an ability to drive the university. They have a trump card that no one else does.
4. there was NO response from faculty because either 1)their head was in the sand with regards to the ramifications or 2) they just didnt care. Either way, it does not show much solidarity towards the football program. As for the student fees, this is a state university and things happen. thats how it is with public institutions. if they want more upfront dealings, i suggest a private institution (see also the current presidential search).

Well, thank you for the respect. I try to be balanced (no, not like that other entity) and accurate, to the best of my ability. I don't have time for a lengthy response, and I don't know how much of the history of this board, and historical comments you're aware of. So.....here are brief responses to your enumerated points:

1. Human nature being what it is, warnings must be somewhat dire, and have a bit of "it's now or never" about them. [See Tulane football salvation, global warming, hurricane warnings, "you need to see a doctor about that" comments, etc., etc., for proof of that phenomenon.] There was NO imminent warnings; not even an *hint* of the ax. And we both know attendance wasn't going to save it. Yes, the community and students did indeed whimper - and more.
2. Well, primarily because it's an ETSU institution (or *was*). There *was* an ardent movement put forth at the time, but was denied even the courtesy of meetings with stanton; denied the courtesy of a "what if" establishment of an account at a bank across the street. I'm not sure from whence your lack of knowledge or remembrance stems here. This point is completely invalid.
3. and 4. Well, obviously Beller had "cause" as they say, to go. They have the ability to make a big noise, which sometimes can have an effect, but historically, ETSU's faculty have been mice, overall. Buccaneerlover's point about job security is also not moot, although I think the bark was worse than the bite might have been, we'll never know. Moreover, as I said, this is a good point - the faculty haven't been overly supportive of football - but neither have they been overly supportive of ROTC, DeRosier, Beller, and numerous other things we could mention. To be honest, I don't think the faculty have educated themselves about this issue at all - with a few exceptions.

In summary(?), football shouldn't really be *much* of a faculty issue (financial considerations notwithstanding, of course), nor should any individual program in and of itself. Football is really more an issue of the quality and extent of student life, especially in the South, and especially at a regional university like ETSU. Students don't really know how much they're getting from a college experience (with exceptions, of course) until maybe towards the end of their junior year, if then. It's up to the university to provide them with an atmosphere of extra-classroom activities [see Mary B. Martin School of Art for a recent positive], not to mention it's up to the university to try and attract a diverse student body, not to mention it's up to the university to try to attract (and hold) more quality students [see Appalachian St., among others] - and, as has been shown in older threads, football is a significant tool for this aim. [This summary is shorter and less nuanced than I would like. Forgive my lack of details.]
11-03-2011 12:37 PM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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Post: #64
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
When Mullins was the one feeding Stanton the info that he could justify doing the deed instead of fixing the problem? Dave never understood why Tennis, no matter how many championships or matches won was always a back page blurb instead of a feature story.
And no, that's not how the real world operates. You don't promise raises and additional resources, coupled with better basketball (Which is what the faculty was interested in) then not delivering. The problem is partially on the faculty too, had they done their homework they would've known that the money being used to fund athletics wasn't going to be re-channeled to fund anything for their benefit unless they were part of the Medical portion of the school.
Again Corky, when you get out into the adult world you'll have a better understanding, until then go over to the intramural fields and kick hackey sack, or soccer balls or maybe #occupythekidstable. Time to step aside with your skittles and let the adults handle things.

(11-03-2011 12:27 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 12:12 PM)Buccaneerlover Wrote:  It's amazing how quiet people are when they have their jobs threatened. Alot of people there kept quiet as to keep their job and support their family. That's life. Also faculty and staff were told of all this extra money they would have for pay raises, additional resources, etc... I guess Dr. Stanton knew about Obama's stimulus package that did all that back in 2003. He must've called the Psychic Friends Network.
BTW Slappy, Skittles were 50 percent off yesterday, though I'm more of a Starburst guy. I would have pegged you for a Jolly Rancher/Zima kinda person

but lover, again, you bash dave mullins for the same reason. you cant have it both ways....

as for the promises, thats politics. if you dont like it, there are private institutions to work/support.

yeah, i can see that. a rainbow of flavors you certainly seem to be
11-03-2011 02:07 PM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #65
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 10:30 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:21 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 08:29 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.

7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.

With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.

you are rambling again...go back and check the posts for accuracy in your assertions.

That's it? I ask you a specific question, show me these "positive gains" of more fans on campus at athletic events, show me these "positive gains" of more enthusiasm for ETSU athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more prestige in ETSU as a result of athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more recognition of ETSU through athletics. And, they've spent over $70 million on athletics since 2003 - and these things you cite are considered "positive gains". If that is true, show me just one other FCS state university in the USA that has seen the light of this ETSU athletic model and adopted it since 2003 - show me just ONE.
11-03-2011 03:17 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #66
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 03:17 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:30 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:21 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 08:29 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.

7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.

With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.

you are rambling again...go back and check the posts for accuracy in your assertions.

That's it? I ask you a specific question, show me these "positive gains" of more fans on campus at athletic events, show me these "positive gains" of more enthusiasm for ETSU athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more prestige in ETSU as a result of athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more recognition of ETSU through athletics. And, they've spent over $70 million on athletics since 2003 - and these things you cite are considered "positive gains". If that is true, show me just one other FCS state university in the USA that has seen the light of this ETSU athletic model and adopted it since 2003 - show me just ONE.

you are rambling again... do you get "street cred" with the gulag for using bold lettering?
11-03-2011 10:30 PM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #67
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 12:37 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:13 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:07 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
Et tu, doctor? With all do respect, (and i read your posts and agree with mostly everything you say) were gonna disagree here on a couple things.
1. "there were hints two years prior about the possibility" What do you need...a sledgehammer over the head? Even with the assurance(whatever that is worth), did football attendence spike? Did financial contributions spike? Did the community even wimper? Students?
2. why is any "real" effort(or lack there of) to save football tied to etsu. Why couldnt some of the ardent supporters on this board put forth a "real" effort and contact the folks you listed? why?
3. name another constiuency within the university that can have a president thrown out with a simple vote...see Ron Beller? The faculty have an ability to drive the university. They have a trump card that no one else does.
4. there was NO response from faculty because either 1)their head was in the sand with regards to the ramifications or 2) they just didnt care. Either way, it does not show much solidarity towards the football program. As for the student fees, this is a state university and things happen. thats how it is with public institutions. if they want more upfront dealings, i suggest a private institution (see also the current presidential search).

Well, thank you for the respect. I try to be balanced (no, not like that other entity) and accurate, to the best of my ability. I don't have time for a lengthy response, and I don't know how much of the history of this board, and historical comments you're aware of. So.....here are brief responses to your enumerated points:

1. Human nature being what it is, warnings must be somewhat dire, and have a bit of "it's now or never" about them. [See Tulane football salvation, global warming, hurricane warnings, "you need to see a doctor about that" comments, etc., etc., for proof of that phenomenon.] There was NO imminent warnings; not even an *hint* of the ax. And we both know attendance wasn't going to save it. Yes, the community and students did indeed whimper - and more.
2. Well, primarily because it's an ETSU institution (or *was*). There *was* an ardent movement put forth at the time, but was denied even the courtesy of meetings with stanton; denied the courtesy of a "what if" establishment of an account at a bank across the street. I'm not sure from whence your lack of knowledge or remembrance stems here. This point is completely invalid.
3. and 4. Well, obviously Beller had "cause" as they say, to go. They have the ability to make a big noise, which sometimes can have an effect, but historically, ETSU's faculty have been mice, overall. Buccaneerlover's point about job security is also not moot, although I think the bark was worse than the bite might have been, we'll never know. Moreover, as I said, this is a good point - the faculty haven't been overly supportive of football - but neither have they been overly supportive of ROTC, DeRosier, Beller, and numerous other things we could mention. To be honest, I don't think the faculty have educated themselves about this issue at all - with a few exceptions.

In summary(?), football shouldn't really be *much* of a faculty issue (financial considerations notwithstanding, of course), nor should any individual program in and of itself. Football is really more an issue of the quality and extent of student life, especially in the South, and especially at a regional university like ETSU. Students don't really know how much they're getting from a college experience (with exceptions, of course) until maybe towards the end of their junior year, if then. It's up to the university to provide them with an atmosphere of extra-classroom activities [see Mary B. Martin School of Art for a recent positive], not to mention it's up to the university to try and attract a diverse student body, not to mention it's up to the university to try to attract (and hold) more quality students [see Appalachian St., among others] - and, as has been shown in older threads, football is a significant tool for this aim. [This summary is shorter and less nuanced than I would like. Forgive my lack of details.]

OK doctor, lets simplify things. i personally enjoy the intelligence you bring to the board, but all these words are just muddling things up.

Lets try this and end it because its really not that important. I just want simple YES or NO answers...not historical observations or reasoning to contrary.


1)were there warnings prior to football being dropped that it was a possibility?
2)did alumi, fans, faculty, students, heed these warnings and increase support through attendance, financial giving or by any othr means neccesary to show overwelming support to save our football program during these difficult times?
3)can any one person start a foundation to solicite funds to be contributed to a cause of their own desire?
4)do faculty of a university have the power to use "a vote of no confidence" to affect a change in leadership?

and most importantly...
5)in this era of "shared governance", will faculty support for the re-estblishment of football at etsu be absolutely necessary for a new president to move forward on it?

simple yes or no please...
11-04-2011 08:36 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-04-2011 08:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 12:37 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:13 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:07 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
Et tu, doctor? With all do respect, (and i read your posts and agree with mostly everything you say) were gonna disagree here on a couple things.
1. "there were hints two years prior about the possibility" What do you need...a sledgehammer over the head? Even with the assurance(whatever that is worth), did football attendence spike? Did financial contributions spike? Did the community even wimper? Students?
2. why is any "real" effort(or lack there of) to save football tied to etsu. Why couldnt some of the ardent supporters on this board put forth a "real" effort and contact the folks you listed? why?
3. name another constiuency within the university that can have a president thrown out with a simple vote...see Ron Beller? The faculty have an ability to drive the university. They have a trump card that no one else does.
4. there was NO response from faculty because either 1)their head was in the sand with regards to the ramifications or 2) they just didnt care. Either way, it does not show much solidarity towards the football program. As for the student fees, this is a state university and things happen. thats how it is with public institutions. if they want more upfront dealings, i suggest a private institution (see also the current presidential search).

Well, thank you for the respect. I try to be balanced (no, not like that other entity) and accurate, to the best of my ability. I don't have time for a lengthy response, and I don't know how much of the history of this board, and historical comments you're aware of. So.....here are brief responses to your enumerated points:

1. Human nature being what it is, warnings must be somewhat dire, and have a bit of "it's now or never" about them. [See Tulane football salvation, global warming, hurricane warnings, "you need to see a doctor about that" comments, etc., etc., for proof of that phenomenon.] There was NO imminent warnings; not even an *hint* of the ax. And we both know attendance wasn't going to save it. Yes, the community and students did indeed whimper - and more.
2. Well, primarily because it's an ETSU institution (or *was*). There *was* an ardent movement put forth at the time, but was denied even the courtesy of meetings with stanton; denied the courtesy of a "what if" establishment of an account at a bank across the street. I'm not sure from whence your lack of knowledge or remembrance stems here. This point is completely invalid.
3. and 4. Well, obviously Beller had "cause" as they say, to go. They have the ability to make a big noise, which sometimes can have an effect, but historically, ETSU's faculty have been mice, overall. Buccaneerlover's point about job security is also not moot, although I think the bark was worse than the bite might have been, we'll never know. Moreover, as I said, this is a good point - the faculty haven't been overly supportive of football - but neither have they been overly supportive of ROTC, DeRosier, Beller, and numerous other things we could mention. To be honest, I don't think the faculty have educated themselves about this issue at all - with a few exceptions.

In summary(?), football shouldn't really be *much* of a faculty issue (financial considerations notwithstanding, of course), nor should any individual program in and of itself. Football is really more an issue of the quality and extent of student life, especially in the South, and especially at a regional university like ETSU. Students don't really know how much they're getting from a college experience (with exceptions, of course) until maybe towards the end of their junior year, if then. It's up to the university to provide them with an atmosphere of extra-classroom activities [see Mary B. Martin School of Art for a recent positive], not to mention it's up to the university to try and attract a diverse student body, not to mention it's up to the university to try to attract (and hold) more quality students [see Appalachian St., among others] - and, as has been shown in older threads, football is a significant tool for this aim. [This summary is shorter and less nuanced than I would like. Forgive my lack of details.]

OK doctor, lets simplify things. i personally enjoy the intelligence you bring to the board, but all these words are just muddling things up.

Lets try this and end it because its really not that important. I just want simple YES or NO answers...not historical observations or reasoning to contrary.


1)were there warnings prior to football being dropped that it was a possibility?
2)did alumi, fans, faculty, students, heed these warnings and increase support through attendance, financial giving or by any othr means neccesary to show overwelming support to save our football program during these difficult times?
3)can any one person start a foundation to solicite funds to be contributed to a cause of their own desire?
4)do faculty of a university have the power to use "a vote of no confidence" to affect a change in leadership?

and most importantly...
5)in this era of "shared governance", will faculty support for the re-estblishment of football at etsu be absolutely necessary for a new president to move forward on it?

simple yes or no please...

Answer to 1) NO!!!
11-04-2011 09:05 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #69
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-04-2011 09:05 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  
(11-04-2011 08:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 12:37 PM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:57 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 11:13 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
Et tu, doctor? With all do respect, (and i read your posts and agree with mostly everything you say) were gonna disagree here on a couple things.
1. "there were hints two years prior about the possibility" What do you need...a sledgehammer over the head? Even with the assurance(whatever that is worth), did football attendence spike? Did financial contributions spike? Did the community even wimper? Students?
2. why is any "real" effort(or lack there of) to save football tied to etsu. Why couldnt some of the ardent supporters on this board put forth a "real" effort and contact the folks you listed? why?
3. name another constiuency within the university that can have a president thrown out with a simple vote...see Ron Beller? The faculty have an ability to drive the university. They have a trump card that no one else does.
4. there was NO response from faculty because either 1)their head was in the sand with regards to the ramifications or 2) they just didnt care. Either way, it does not show much solidarity towards the football program. As for the student fees, this is a state university and things happen. thats how it is with public institutions. if they want more upfront dealings, i suggest a private institution (see also the current presidential search).

Well, thank you for the respect. I try to be balanced (no, not like that other entity) and accurate, to the best of my ability. I don't have time for a lengthy response, and I don't know how much of the history of this board, and historical comments you're aware of. So.....here are brief responses to your enumerated points:

1. Human nature being what it is, warnings must be somewhat dire, and have a bit of "it's now or never" about them. [See Tulane football salvation, global warming, hurricane warnings, "you need to see a doctor about that" comments, etc., etc., for proof of that phenomenon.] There was NO imminent warnings; not even an *hint* of the ax. And we both know attendance wasn't going to save it. Yes, the community and students did indeed whimper - and more.
2. Well, primarily because it's an ETSU institution (or *was*). There *was* an ardent movement put forth at the time, but was denied even the courtesy of meetings with stanton; denied the courtesy of a "what if" establishment of an account at a bank across the street. I'm not sure from whence your lack of knowledge or remembrance stems here. This point is completely invalid.
3. and 4. Well, obviously Beller had "cause" as they say, to go. They have the ability to make a big noise, which sometimes can have an effect, but historically, ETSU's faculty have been mice, overall. Buccaneerlover's point about job security is also not moot, although I think the bark was worse than the bite might have been, we'll never know. Moreover, as I said, this is a good point - the faculty haven't been overly supportive of football - but neither have they been overly supportive of ROTC, DeRosier, Beller, and numerous other things we could mention. To be honest, I don't think the faculty have educated themselves about this issue at all - with a few exceptions.

In summary(?), football shouldn't really be *much* of a faculty issue (financial considerations notwithstanding, of course), nor should any individual program in and of itself. Football is really more an issue of the quality and extent of student life, especially in the South, and especially at a regional university like ETSU. Students don't really know how much they're getting from a college experience (with exceptions, of course) until maybe towards the end of their junior year, if then. It's up to the university to provide them with an atmosphere of extra-classroom activities [see Mary B. Martin School of Art for a recent positive], not to mention it's up to the university to try and attract a diverse student body, not to mention it's up to the university to try to attract (and hold) more quality students [see Appalachian St., among others] - and, as has been shown in older threads, football is a significant tool for this aim. [This summary is shorter and less nuanced than I would like. Forgive my lack of details.]

OK doctor, lets simplify things. i personally enjoy the intelligence you bring to the board, but all these words are just muddling things up.

Lets try this and end it because its really not that important. I just want simple YES or NO answers...not historical observations or reasoning to contrary.


1)were there warnings prior to football being dropped that it was a possibility?
2)did alumi, fans, faculty, students, heed these warnings and increase support through attendance, financial giving or by any othr means neccesary to show overwelming support to save our football program during these difficult times?
3)can any one person start a foundation to solicite funds to be contributed to a cause of their own desire?
4)do faculty of a university have the power to use "a vote of no confidence" to affect a change in leadership?

and most importantly...
5)in this era of "shared governance", will faculty support for the re-estblishment of football at etsu be absolutely necessary for a new president to move forward on it?

simple yes or no please...

Answer to 1) NO!!!

There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period.

the above is a quote from a post from the doctor, who you have no reason to question. I too know that you are wrong.
11-04-2011 09:10 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #70
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 10:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 03:17 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:30 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:21 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.

With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.

you are rambling again...go back and check the posts for accuracy in your assertions.

That's it? I ask you a specific question, show me these "positive gains" of more fans on campus at athletic events, show me these "positive gains" of more enthusiasm for ETSU athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more prestige in ETSU as a result of athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more recognition of ETSU through athletics. And, they've spent over $70 million on athletics since 2003 - and these things you cite are considered "positive gains". If that is true, show me just one other FCS state university in the USA that has seen the light of this ETSU athletic model and adopted it since 2003 - show me just ONE.

you are rambling again... do you get "street cred" with the gulag for using bold lettering?

You are evading again in your usual condescending tone. You can't answer my questions because you can't find the words that conforms to the propaganda that you've been shoveling. At least you should be able to name just one other FCS state university that has adopted the ETSU athletic model/philosophy over the last eight years of dropping football in order to fully fund its other sports.
11-04-2011 09:59 AM
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BucNut22 Offline
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Post: #71
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-04-2011 09:59 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:30 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 03:17 PM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:30 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:21 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.

you are rambling again...go back and check the posts for accuracy in your assertions.

That's it? I ask you a specific question, show me these "positive gains" of more fans on campus at athletic events, show me these "positive gains" of more enthusiasm for ETSU athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more prestige in ETSU as a result of athletics, show me these "positive gains" of more recognition of ETSU through athletics. And, they've spent over $70 million on athletics since 2003 - and these things you cite are considered "positive gains". If that is true, show me just one other FCS state university in the USA that has seen the light of this ETSU athletic model and adopted it since 2003 - show me just ONE.

you are rambling again... do you get "street cred" with the gulag for using bold lettering?

You are evading again in your usual condescending tone. You can't answer my questions because you can't find the words that conforms to the propaganda that you've been shoveling. At least you should be able to name just one other FCS state university that has adopted the ETSU athletic model/philosophy over the last eight years of dropping football in order to fully fund its other sports.
He does a lot of that, or simply clams up when presented with a superior argument.
11-04-2011 12:37 PM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #72
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-04-2011 08:36 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  OK doctor, lets simplify things. i personally enjoy the intelligence you bring to the board, but all these words are just muddling things up.

Lets try this and end it because its really not that important. I just want simple YES or NO answers...not historical observations or reasoning to contrary.


1)were there warnings prior to football being dropped that it was a possibility?
2)did alumi, fans, faculty, students, heed these warnings and increase support through attendance, financial giving or by any othr means neccesary to show overwelming support to save our football program during these difficult times?
3)can any one person start a foundation to solicite funds to be contributed to a cause of their own desire?
4)do faculty of a university have the power to use "a vote of no confidence" to affect a change in leadership?

and most importantly...
5)in this era of "shared governance", will faculty support for the re-estblishment of football at etsu be absolutely necessary for a new president to move forward on it?

simple yes or no please...

+++ I'll (sort of) take the bait, but won't play the game the way you want it to be played. You well know that yes/no answers don't do justice to these complex (in some cases) questions. You say "let's simplify things"; to what end? The complexity of these issues defies simplification - to a large extent. Those things being said, here is my best, honest attempt to answer your 4 questions, as briefly as I can:

1) Yes. However, ALL of those warnings were over 2 years old, and even at that earlier time were not 'dire' enough to cause real concern to almost all stakeholders. The activity on this board, and the questions for the presidential candidates proves that. In the *real*, pertinent sense, the answer to your question would have to be "no".
2) No. But that's because of 1) above. *IF* these stakeholders had been apprised of the impending reality of such a move, then the answer would undoubtedly have been yes - with the possible/probable exception of a large segment of the faculty.
3) Don't know. I would want to say "yes", but am not sure of the legal ramifications of the word "foundation".
4) Yes; but limited. There is far from any guarantees there. And again, as I pointed out earlier, the faculty were probably the weakest stakeholder in this situation. A vote of no confidence is (in my experience and knowledge) normally reserved for academic issues (like academic fraud, or presidential support of a faculty member engaged in same), and/or moral personal issues.
5) Hard to say. I think we both know the faculty is split on this, with perhaps the "no" votes being more vocal, but I suspect less numerous - *if* football wouldn't hurt their area of the university. And I think all involved would say that that would be part of the deal, anyway.

You're welcome, but I decry your disingenuous attempt to have myself, or anyone, reply to those questions with a yes/no answer. That doesn't help to get to the bottom of what has happened, or needs to happen.
11-05-2011 08:33 AM
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OldGrayDog Offline
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Post: #73
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
I admit that I haven't read through the entire thread so the following my redundant. It may also be irrelevant, but I'm used to that position. I think that a move upwards would probably have to be to the SoCon if we want to do it within in the next 3 or 4 years simply based on facilities and fan base. I say 3 or 4 rather than 1 or 2 for one reason. It will take some time to re-establish a relationship with the other schools in the SoCon. Boring as it may be I'll share one story from the history of our leaving the SoCon. About a year before ETSU dropped football I had the occasion to visit with the president of Georgia Southern. I mentioned that he must know Paul Stanton since the SoCon presidents meet regularly. He told me that he had only met Stanton once but knew Wayne Andrews very well because Andrews always came to the meetings on behalf of the president. Roll ahead to when ETSU dropped football and then tired to stay in the SoCon. The SoCon's decision was made by one group and one group only - the presidents of the SoCon schools. Stanton went to their meeting asking to stay in citing Davidson as an example of a SoCon school without football. We know how that turned out. Perhaps if there had been a personal relationship with the other presidents things would have gone differently.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2011 09:05 AM by OldGrayDog.)
11-05-2011 09:03 AM
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meatEATINGbirds1 Offline
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Post: #74
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
KSU has a better chance of filling any Southern opening. They enjoy better leadership. Football is already in the works as just last week Dooley stated the program development is sitting at "half time." Sounds like they will be hiring a coach in the next year or so. Also, Kennesaw offers a better market.
(This post was last modified: 11-05-2011 10:43 AM by meatEATINGbirds1.)
11-05-2011 10:42 AM
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buckys Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
As I have said in earlier posts, ETSU is in dire straits when it comes to changing conferences. ETSU has no football and poor facilities for basketball, the sports that drive an athletic program. Basketball attendence has decreased, season ticket sales have decreased, community and alumni support has decreased, athletic public relations have decreased and the overall visablity of the athletic department has decreased and the masked duo of mullins/breedlove has alienated thousands of former supporters.

As for returning to the SoCon, persons on this board need to know that officials of the SoCon have a definite dislike for mullins. He ruffled many a feather both as a tennis coach and ad. mullins is a definite 'millstone' around the neck of the athletic departmant
11-05-2011 11:12 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-05-2011 11:12 AM)buckys Wrote:  As I have said in earlier posts, ETSU is in dire straits when it comes to changing conferences. ETSU has no football and poor facilities for basketball, the sports that drive an athletic program. Basketball attendence has decreased, season ticket sales have decreased, community and alumni support has decreased, athletic public relations have decreased and the overall visablity of the athletic department has decreased and the masked duo of mullins/breedlove has alienated thousands of former supporters.

As for returning to the SoCon, persons on this board need to know that officials of the SoCon have a definite dislike for mullins. He ruffled many a feather both as a tennis coach and ad. mullins is a definite 'millstone' around the neck of the athletic departmant

Perfect time for a house cleaning.
11-05-2011 01:36 PM
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ReturnOfMommaBear Offline
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Post: #77
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-05-2011 09:03 AM)OldGrayDog Wrote:  I admit that I haven't read through the entire thread so the following my redundant. It may also be irrelevant, but I'm used to that position. I think that a move upwards would probably have to be to the SoCon if we want to do it within in the next 3 or 4 years simply based on facilities and fan base. I say 3 or 4 rather than 1 or 2 for one reason. It will take some time to re-establish a relationship with the other schools in the SoCon. Boring as it may be I'll share one story from the history of our leaving the SoCon. About a year before ETSU dropped football I had the occasion to visit with the president of Georgia Southern. I mentioned that he must know Paul Stanton since the SoCon presidents meet regularly. He told me that he had only met Stanton once but knew Wayne Andrews very well because Andrews always came to the meetings on behalf of the president. Roll ahead to when ETSU dropped football and then tired to stay in the SoCon. The SoCon's decision was made by one group and one group only - the presidents of the SoCon schools. Stanton went to their meeting asking to stay in citing Davidson as an example of a SoCon school without football. We know how that turned out. Perhaps if there had been a personal relationship with the other presidents things would have gone differently.

Bingo. Thank you for validating what I've been saying for 8 years. I know we'll both be accused of this being "our perception" but I'm glad to see that someone other than the 4 people I talked with from other SoCon schools and the Conference office also elaborated on details.
11-05-2011 05:54 PM
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ReturnOfMommaBear Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-05-2011 11:12 AM)buckys Wrote:  As I have said in earlier posts, ETSU is in dire straits when it comes to changing conferences. ETSU has no football and poor facilities for basketball, the sports that drive an athletic program. Basketball attendence has decreased, season ticket sales have decreased, community and alumni support has decreased, athletic public relations have decreased and the overall visablity of the athletic department has decreased and the masked duo of mullins/breedlove has alienated thousands of former supporters.

As for returning to the SoCon, persons on this board need to know that officials of the SoCon have a definite dislike for mullins. He ruffled many a feather both as a tennis coach and ad. mullins is a definite 'millstone' around the neck of the athletic departmant

I agree on all points. I know from my time around the SoCon that heads turned and eyes rolled on both of those hirings.
11-05-2011 05:56 PM
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Post: #79
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
I told you then and again now - Danny Morrison and Les Robinson told me (in meetings years apart) the conference was looking for opportunities to restructure their conference without ETSU, App State, and UTC. They want to keep GaSouthern and UNCG. The conference presidents either like the administrations at those universities or their locations. I have met with the administrators at GaSouthern - they are very nice, open, honest and easy to speak with.

ETSU's problems were and continue to be inbreeding withing the ETSU community - Stanton and Mullins just have no experience within social arenas and do not know how to act with other universities. Mullins for example has a resume listing his athletic experience being Roan State CC and ETSU. I have been in conference meetings with him...he comes across very cold with an lack of the ability to work with others and even listen to their ideas. Basically the inbreeding comes out as "this is the way I learned it and the way I do it so it must be correct - your ideas are different than mine so they must be wrong".

As for other conferences - the Colonial commissioner told me ETSU does not have the facilities required to join their conference - basketball, tennis, volleyball met their checklist but at the time ETSU did not have on campus facilities for outdoor track, baseball, softball, and soccer. At the time this was more than 1/2 of the teams.
11-06-2011 08:31 AM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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Post: #80
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
Baseball, softball and soccer are solved, the outdoor track could potentially come with a football stadium. (though I hope its' separate)
Fresh blood all around will help alot.
No SoCon. To hell with em.
11-07-2011 03:05 PM
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