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Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #41
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-02-2011 11:33 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:32 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 05:49 PM)BucNut22 Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 02:55 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 02:09 PM)bucfan81 Wrote:  If there is anything proven over the last eight years and that is ETSU is going nowhere without football. With football it might even elevate the soccer program.

might...might not. FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now?
You speak without knowledge sir.

enlighten me then...
Every dime spent on football is worth 10 spent on any other sport.

Its funny because I was having a conversation with one of the big boosters for the University of Cincinnati. This is a guy who has given A LOT of money to the athletic department, almost all of which was earmarked for football. He is currently distraught because despite all the money he has given to UC basketball, despite all the winning, the packed house on gameday, etc he is about to watch UC athletics take a major step backwards as a result of the conference realignment saga.

Albeit it may be too late but he understands now what you and others never have, FOOTBALL DRIVES THE BUS. He tells me last night "if we had invested and committed to football sooner it would be us not those rednecks from West Virginia getting that invite to the Big 12." Despite a long an illustrious basketball tradition going all the way back beyond Oscar Robertson, UC is about to get left out in the cold because of the state of its football program.

Even as a money drain football has more value for ETSU than any other sport. It has been proven time and again that schools with strong football programs attract and retain better students. Conferences looking to add members continue to seek out schools on the basis of football first and everything else second (why the Big 10 went after Nebraska and not Kansas).

UNC Charlotte AD Judy Rose, who kick starter their football renewal nailed it on the head.... "the question is not whether we can afford football, the question is whether we can afford NOT to have football."

Quote:"I have thought for a longtime that the landscape of intercollegiate athletics was going to change," said Rose. "My concern has been what would happen to a large public institution that did not have football. My fear has been that schools that don't have football might get left out of the mix in intercollegiate athletics all together. I would hate to have seen not having football to have become a major issue for our institution. The main reason for us to add football was to protect the rest of our athletic program."

Citing recent conference realignments, Rose said she believed that UNC Charlotte's options have been limited in the past because of the lack of a football program despite having an excellent basketball team.

"The last two conference expansions, they were not motivated by basketball, they were motivated by football," Rose said. "Why did the Big East take TCU, they are nowhere in that geographic region. It's because of football. And when Nebraska joins the Big Ten, it's because of football... This is all driven by football."
http://www.collegefootballpoll.com/news_...teams.html

thanks for the lecture...now maybe you can answer MY question...and i will give it to you again....

FB did not elevate ANY other program at etsu. why would it now? As this relates to ETSU, NOT UC, NOT Nebraska, NOT TCU, NOT Charlotte
11-03-2011 08:09 AM
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bucfan81 Offline
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Post: #42
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.
11-03-2011 08:29 AM
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Goldfinger Offline
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Post: #43
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-02-2011 09:38 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:05 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:02 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:57 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:48 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  havent we been over this?

I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

who said better off...?

Fine...Gains...GO

i dont have time to hold your hand. go down the normal threads to the "this should end the debate" thread. it clearly states what i would consider gains. 7 teams in the top 100 nationally, the first time since the dome that athletic facilities were constructed on campus, four of them counting baseball, 3.2 gpa overall athletics gpa, etc...

I've already read you're little thread. I'm waiting to be impressed.
11-03-2011 09:21 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #44
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 08:29 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.

7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.
11-03-2011 09:21 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #45
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)Goldfinger Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:38 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:05 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:02 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:57 PM)Goldfinger Wrote:  I'm sorry but the claim ETSU is better off now than it was in 2003 is a new one for me.

who said better off...?

Fine...Gains...GO

i dont have time to hold your hand. go down the normal threads to the "this should end the debate" thread. it clearly states what i would consider gains. 7 teams in the top 100 nationally, the first time since the dome that athletic facilities were constructed on campus, four of them counting baseball, 3.2 gpa overall athletics gpa, etc...

I've already read you're little thread. I'm waiting to be impressed.

thats about what i expected...
11-03-2011 09:22 AM
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Mister Consistency Offline
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Post: #46
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-02-2011 09:52 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  If we want change we should be pushing for better than that. How about a REAL league, say the CAA or A10?

A "real" league would require "real" facilities for football and basketball almost immediately (just the latter in the case of the A-10), so unless you've recently struck oil and are willing to donate the proceeds to the athletics department, it's not happening.

Our options are SoCon, OVC or Big South. The Big South is the worst football conference in the country, and the OVC is horrible for basketball and baseball. The SoCon is the best fit for our athletic profile (with or without football) and our aspirations as a university. If they're remotely interested in us, we need to kick their door down and make it happen.
11-03-2011 09:32 AM
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Goldfinger Offline
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Post: #47
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
You know, slappy, as little as a year ago I would have passionately taken you to task. At this point in history you simply aren't worth me getting involved beyond a single line or two. Why you ask? Because this situation is going to play out one of two ways. Either a new president is going to come in and completely wash away your cronies or they will remain in power and etsu will fall to a level of insignificance that is unthinkable to many on this board. Either way, I win.
11-03-2011 09:36 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #48
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 09:32 AM)Mister Consistency Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 09:52 AM)etsuBucsFan1988 Wrote:  If we want change we should be pushing for better than that. How about a REAL league, say the CAA or A10?

A "real" league would require "real" facilities for football and basketball almost immediately (just the latter in the case of the A-10), so unless you've recently struck oil and are willing to donate the proceeds to the athletics department, it's not happening.

Our options are SoCon, OVC or Big South. The Big South is the worst football conference in the country, and the OVC is horrible for basketball and baseball. The SoCon is the best fit for our athletic profile (with or without football) and our aspirations as a university. If they're remotely interested in us, we need to kick their door down and make it happen.

mister, a reasonable and well thought out response. this type of logic WILL NOT be tolerated on this board...

booo hissss
11-03-2011 09:39 AM
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Goldfinger Offline
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Post: #49
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
You're not going to the A-10 for many reasons. One is you're not Catholic.
11-03-2011 09:40 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #50
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 09:36 AM)Goldfinger Wrote:  You know, slappy, as little as a year ago I would have passionately taken you to task. At this point in history you simply aren't worth me getting involved beyond a single line or two. Why you ask? Because this situation is going to play out one of two ways. Either a new president is going to come in and completely wash away your cronies or they will remain in power and etsu will fall to a level of insignificance that is unthinkable to many on this board. Either way, I win.

thats about what i expected...
11-03-2011 09:40 AM
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Goldfinger Offline
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Post: #51
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 09:40 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:36 AM)Goldfinger Wrote:  You know, slappy, as little as a year ago I would have passionately taken you to task. At this point in history you simply aren't worth me getting involved beyond a single line or two. Why you ask? Because this situation is going to play out one of two ways. Either a new president is going to come in and completely wash away your cronies or they will remain in power and etsu will fall to a level of insignificance that is unthinkable to many on this board. Either way, I win.

thats about what i expected...

I always knew you were a last word whore.
11-03-2011 10:00 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #52
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 07:27 AM)ReturnOfMommaBear Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 08:45 PM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-02-2011 04:32 PM)buckys Wrote:  slappy, we are tired of your defeatist attitude but alas, you fit in perfect with the mullins/stanton duo. You sir, agree with their policy of 'can't do', 'stupid excuses' and 'care less about what the students, fans, alumni, community and donors want'. Its people like you that have caused the mess that ETSU has put the athletic department in. Your support of a poorly run sports department just continues to feed their failure to bring ETSU into the 21 century of college sports.

just because i dont think the sky will cave in without football, dont lump me into the yes crowd. never said cant, never made excuses, and as for the students, fans, alumni, community and donors you speak of, why not answer the question in my post...

I just grow tired of hearing how things would be different THIS time and how we SHOULD have done this or IF we had done that. Tired... Where was all this enthusiasm and rhetoric when they were thinking about dropping it? You all knew it was coming if X,Y and Z didnt change. Nothing changed and now you are reacting. Where was all this vision in 2001?

There were people to tried to organize concerted efforts to stop this action but we were threatened and intimidated. People tried to contact Dr. Stanton (namely Ken Simonds and Steve Grindstaff, just off the top of my head) and they could not talk to him. The "announcement" was leaked a tad late in the semester with students moving out of the dorms and graduation taking place. Of course we know how hard the Pirate Club tried to convince Dr. Stanton to give them a chance to raise money to stop the process. He said no.

So, my friend, this is not a new thing. The same people who started this are still working everyday and we've added many people over the past 7 years. The "base" if fired up right now, so we can only hope that a new President will see this as an opportunity and not a threat.

I guess those people should have tried harder. What was Grindstaff gonna do, sell him a car? This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

So friend, where was this "base" then? Its all reactionary and by the looks of the candidates by the end of the day of thier interviews, they are already tired of the football question. It is an opportunity for the president, but, as they have all said, it will take a tremendous effort to get it done. What will happen when the rubber meets the road?
11-03-2011 10:07 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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Post: #53
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 10:00 AM)Goldfinger Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:40 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:36 AM)Goldfinger Wrote:  You know, slappy, as little as a year ago I would have passionately taken you to task. At this point in history you simply aren't worth me getting involved beyond a single line or two. Why you ask? Because this situation is going to play out one of two ways. Either a new president is going to come in and completely wash away your cronies or they will remain in power and etsu will fall to a level of insignificance that is unthinkable to many on this board. Either way, I win.

thats about what i expected...

I always knew you were a last word whore.

and for the last time...thats about what i expected.
11-03-2011 10:08 AM
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Buc66 Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 08:29 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.

7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.

With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.
11-03-2011 10:21 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 10:21 AM)Buc66 Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 09:21 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 08:29 AM)bucfan81 Wrote:  We have seen over the last eight years what a school in Tennessee can do without football. Bragging about minor sports is about all. Basketball and baseball have stalled out at a level we all know can be much better. There is a good reason why every other school in Tennesse plays football. At least you have your foot in the door and have it open to greater things. Without fooball that door is obviously closed shut.

7 teams in the top 100 nationally, 3-4 NEW athletics facilities on campus (previous 30 years = none), good STUDENT-athletes, etc.... Basball was top 40 in the country...theres a problem stalling out there? You want top 10? Basketball is fair game. What door has etsu football opened in the past? Same door WCU has opened.

With football, could have had same results as well. There's no way of tying the demise of football to these (totally insignificant and irrelevant) numbers. Even if you could make a case, these tiny, little A-Sun driven numbers in no way justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this product - NO WAY! Basketball and maybe baseball are the ONLY sports at ETSU where numbers matter, and they have not moved up. ETSU and other schools fund the invisible sports because NCAA membership and Title IX require it. By the way, how have the fall sports done this year at ETSU? Last time I checked, no championships - and several losing records. Is this the "positive gains" that you tout? You have yet to justify the expenditure of $11 million annually on this UNIQUE ETSU athletic model. Show me that there are more fans, more enthusiasm, more recognition, and more prestige for the university with this athletic model than before when football was around and I'll join your group and start telling all the other FCS schools that they should adopt this model asap.

you are rambling again...go back and check the posts for accuracy in your assertions.
11-03-2011 10:30 AM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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Post: #56
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
Men's Soccer - Sixth place after being ranked one week and barely gets into the conference tournament that it's hosting.
Women's Soccer - Unbelievable turnaround. Basically a worst to tied for first, but FGCU gets the overrall one seed.
XC - Men finished 6th. Women Finished 8th.
Volleyball - Currently 5th place with an overrall losing record. (Big shock here, damn Canadian)
Golf and Tennis have Spring championships.
Overrall, when you look at that body of work, it wreaks of classic underachievement and mediocrity with one outlying turnaround from a program that hasn't been competitive before this year.
So the men have two 6th place finishes, and the women's sports gave us a tie for first but not the overrall champ based on tiebreakers, an 8th place and currently a 5th. Yep, that's #WINNING!
I guess in short, ETSU was doing this WITH football and spending a whole hell of alot less money doing it, and they were doing it in what is percieved to be a better conference.
(This post was last modified: 11-03-2011 11:01 AM by Buccaneerlover.)
11-03-2011 11:01 AM
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posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Offline
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Post: #57
RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 10:07 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
11-03-2011 11:13 AM
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etsubuc Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
I am pretty sure that the faculty did not care about the dropping of football- most are in favor of dropping it and today most are not in favor of bringing it back.
11-03-2011 11:49 AM
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slappywhite Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
(11-03-2011 11:13 AM)posterformerlyknownasthedoctor Wrote:  
(11-03-2011 10:07 AM)slappywhite Wrote:  This was known to have been coming down the pike for at least two years. Timing was not the issue, nor were the students moving out. Where were the faculty? They drive the university, they could have had a vote of no confidence in the president and stopped it. Who tried to organize the faculty?

On this you are wrong. There were hints two years prior that it was a possibility, but as MommaBear pointed out repeatedly, all that was at least "smoothed over" for a period. The dropping of football, when and how it happened, was a total shock to 99.9% of the campus, including students, faculty, and other administrators. And that 99.9% is not an exaggeration. As I've mentioned before, again and again and again, there was no warning that anything of the sort was imminent. I have multiple degrees from ETSU. I was NEVER contacted about trying to save football, and I'm on all the alumni lists, mailouts, etc. To my knowledge, NOT ONE SINGLE football player, either present or past, was contacted about trying to raise money for the program. And I've talked to many of them, and others on this board have said exactly the same thing. There was NO realistic, "real" effort to raise the money needed to make it work. My contacts within the university community are vast and extensive, and I can assure you that not a single contact had any knowledge of it, nor any warning of it. JoAnn Paty herself didn't know of it, or if she did, she covered it up, because (again as I've posted repeatedly), she was quoted in the JC Press immediately after the ceremony opening the golf facility, to the effect that "ok, now we have to get working on the baseball stadium" (paraphrased, but very close to verbatim). Not a hint that there was anything worrisome about the football program.

As to the faculty, you have a point, but:
1) The faculty do not drive the university;
2) They were apparently (from all the evidence I've heard and seen) sold a bill of goods about how dire the financial situation was if football was kept. They were not informed that student activity fees were coming regardless. Some of the more outspoken faculty members, more academically-oriented, drowned out any opposing voices. Moreso, however, stanton presented it as a "done deal", with no room to argue.

That being said, however, if more faculty had taken it upon themselves to become educated about all the pros and cons, then perhaps there would have been more of an outcry. Sadly, no one tried to organize the faculty, but.........well, see point 1 above.
Et tu, doctor? With all do respect, (and i read your posts and agree with mostly everything you say) were gonna disagree here on a couple things.
1. "there were hints two years prior about the possibility" What do you need...a sledgehammer over the head? Even with the assurance(whatever that is worth), did football attendence spike? Did financial contributions spike? Did the community even wimper? Students?
2. why is any "real" effort(or lack there of) to save football tied to etsu. Why couldnt some of the ardent supporters on this board put forth a "real" effort and contact the folks you listed? why?
3. name another constiuency within the university that can have a president thrown out with a simple vote...see Ron Beller? The faculty have an ability to drive the university. They have a trump card that no one else does.
4. there was NO response from faculty because either 1)their head was in the sand with regards to the ramifications or 2) they just didnt care. Either way, it does not show much solidarity towards the football program. As for the student fees, this is a state university and things happen. thats how it is with public institutions. if they want more upfront dealings, i suggest a private institution (see also the current presidential search).
11-03-2011 11:57 AM
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Buccaneerlover Offline
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RE: Will ETSU Grab SoCon Opening?
It's amazing how quiet people are when they have their jobs threatened. Alot of people there kept quiet as to keep their job and support their family. That's life. Also faculty and staff were told of all this extra money they would have for pay raises, additional resources, etc... I guess Dr. Stanton knew about Obama's stimulus package that did all that back in 2003. He must've called the Psychic Friends Network.
BTW Slappy, Skittles were 50 percent off yesterday, though I'm more of a Starburst guy. I would have pegged you for a Jolly Rancher/Zima kinda person
11-03-2011 12:12 PM
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