(12-22-2020 01:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  App St has generally fielded good teams, but there is a world of difference in the brand and recognition levels of Boise and any school that the AAC might select from from CUSA/MAC/SB. In the east, Army is the only G5/indy team that has that kind of brand/value that would make them an attractive addition to the AAC---and they arent interested. So--that leaves BYU, Boise, and Air Force---of which--only one has expressed and interest in joining. Thus--Boise it is.

I'm a huge fan of brand value, it's really the only thing that matters. In this case though, I just do not think Boise brings enough brand value to significantly move the needle, meaning boosting our TV value.

Maybe I am underestimating Boise, but I think if we go to ESPN and say we're adding Boise, what kind of raise do we get, the answer will be basically "nothing". The $7m for our new TV deal is about what Boise is getting from their sweetheart deal with the MWC.

Plus, there's the trouble factor. Boise is like BYU, they are a prima-donna program that thinks they are worth more than they are. The AAC, while being very disparate in geography and culture, has had a basically harmonious decision making structure - and yes, thank Aresco for that. But to me, Boise is a wildcat. Sooner or later, they will make trouble, IMO. Those who think Boise is going to step in and regard other AAC schools as their "equals" are likely in for a surprise. They might regard Cincy as an equal. Maybe UCF. That will be about it.

Their attitude is that of a natural independent. But I suspect they know they would lose value as an independent - which IMO says something about their value to a conference.

That's a good point.

A Big Ten fan once told me that Louisville is a community college attached to a top-30 athletic department. They were exaggerating, of course. But that phrase describes Boise even better than Louisville.

That's also another reason to add SDSU along with Boise/BYU.

Institutionally, SDSU is a perfect fit with the big city schools in the American. They want the same things and will vote with the rest of the conference against the prima donnas.

(12-22-2020 01:15 PM)bullet Wrote:  Boise St. has been slipping a little. There's no guarantee they continue at their current level. They've got no fundamentals that propel them above SDSU or Fresno or even UNLV. Right now they are a plus. Will they be in 10-15 years?

Full membership is a big step.

Whatever fundamentals UNLV has, they've been no help to their football team.

The most encouraging thing about Boise State football, IMO, is that they've had several head coaching changes -- they're on their 4th head coach in 23 seasons since they started winning consistently in FBS -- without crashing and burning. That shows their "fundamentals", whatever they are, are pretty good. I'll grant that SDSU has a place that (too many) people like to live in, and theoretically easier access to SoCal recruits, and in a few years they should have the best stadium in the conference other than the one UNLV borrows from the Raiders, and maybe the new CSU stadium which is really nice. In any event, SDSU is the only MWC football program whose long-term projection is on the same level as Boise.

The big question is would there be enough tv value to justify a true Western Expansion of 5 Mountain/Pacific time zone programs to add to the existing 11? Is that conference closer to the ACC and PAC 12 in value and performance than say the MAC/C-USA/SBC and a weakened MWC?

West: Navy/Wich St, Tulsa, SMU, AFA, BYU, Boise St, Fresno St, San Diego St
East: Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, UCF, USF

West schools get an annual CA trip and Texas every other year; East schools get an annual trip to FL and Texas every other year.

7 game conference schedule for more opportunities to play P5 OOC (divisional opponents only, SMU-Houston can play as an OOC game)

The 5 mountain/pacific schools open up the opportunity for AAC-After-Dark time slot.

Those 5 western schools can then create separation between themselves and the the MWC schools.

The MWC is left with Hawaii, San Jose St, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, UNM. Those 8 can find 2 replacements from among NMSU and the Texas C-USA schools.

Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

They can? Where are they going to play them? QUALCOMM stadium is being demolished as I type this.

(12-22-2020 03:15 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

They can? Where are they going to play them? QUALCOMM stadium is being demolished as I type this.

Still the point stands, that's a long way to travel to play a game near the second largest naval base.

(12-22-2020 03:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:15 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

They can? Where are they going to play them? QUALCOMM stadium is being demolished as I type this.

Still the point stands, that's a long way to travel to play a game near the second largest naval base.

Not a team we want near the largest though

(12-22-2020 03:20 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:18 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:15 PM)SDSUguy Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

They can? Where are they going to play them? QUALCOMM stadium is being demolished as I type this.

Still the point stands, that's a long way to travel to play a game near the second largest naval base.

Not a team we want near the largest though

Ooooooohhhhhhh! Damn ECU! Feel that burn?

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

Where are Navy and ND going to play in SD?

There is a sports vacuum in SD created by the departure of the Chargers. This is part of the reason why the crappy MW is getting so much attention locally now. It's true that SDSU and BSU are far flung from AAC members.

However, it's also true that San Diego is probably the best tv market out there waiting for something to get excited about(No NFL, no P5 school(yet), just MLB). San Diego county has more people living in it than the entire state of Utah and would be ranked 30th by population if it was a state. This is probably why we were invited to the BE ten years ago even though we were at the end of a 12 year bowl drought.

Now add in a 90 wins over ten years and a bowl ever year between 2010-2019, new stadium opening 2022 season with campus expanding enrollment above 50K in the future. I think with Boise and another it will be well worth it to all parties.

I almost want to say that ESPN would love to get Boise back on the ESPN dole and rob CBS of some value.

(12-22-2020 03:31 PM)AztecEmpire Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

Where are Navy and ND going to play in SD?

Petco.

(12-22-2020 01:29 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 10:52 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  App St has generally fielded good teams, but there is a world of difference in the brand and recognition levels of Boise and any school that the AAC might select from from CUSA/MAC/SB. In the east, Army is the only G5/indy team that has that kind of brand/value that would make them an attractive addition to the AAC---and they arent interested. So--that leaves BYU, Boise, and Air Force---of which--only one has expressed and interest in joining. Thus--Boise it is.

I'm a huge fan of brand value, it's really the only thing that matters. In this case though, I just do not think Boise brings enough brand value to significantly move the needle, meaning boosting our TV value.

Maybe I am underestimating Boise, but I think if we go to ESPN and say we're adding Boise, what kind of raise do we get, the answer will be basically "nothing". The $7m for our new TV deal is about what Boise is getting from their sweetheart deal with the MWC.

Plus, there's the trouble factor. Boise is like BYU, they are a prima-donna program that thinks they are worth more than they are. The AAC, while being very disparate in geography and culture, has had a basically harmonious decision making structure - and yes, thank Aresco for that. But to me, Boise is a wildcat. Sooner or later, they will make trouble, IMO. Those who think Boise is going to step in and regard other AAC schools as their "equals" are likely in for a surprise. They might regard Cincy as an equal. Maybe UCF. That will be about it.

Their attitude is that of a natural independent. But I suspect they know they would lose value as an independent - which IMO says something about their value to a conference.

Well---I think I'd push back fairly hard on that. I think at this point, their brand value is probably fairly close to BYU's. Their ratings would certainly indicate something to that affect. I mean---given the choices available to the AAC---who has more value to the AAC than Boise? BYU and Army are the only two I'd consider "as or more" valuable. In terms of the pallet of schools currently willing to join---nobody else is even close. AppSt? UAB? Marshall? None of those are even in the ballpark in terms of brand or accomplishments. There is a reason that the MW was willing to give the Broncos a special deal.

(12-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The big question is would there be enough tv value to justify a true Western Expansion of 5 Mountain/Pacific time zone programs to add to the existing 11? Is that conference closer to the ACC and PAC 12 in value and performance than say the MAC/C-USA/SBC and a weakened MWC?

West: Navy/Wich St, Tulsa, SMU, AFA, BYU, Boise St, Fresno St, San Diego St
East: Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, UCF, USF

West schools get an annual CA trip and Texas every other year; East schools get an annual trip to FL and Texas every other year.

7 game conference schedule for more opportunities to play P5 OOC (divisional opponents only, SMU-Houston can play as an OOC game)

The 5 mountain/pacific schools open up the opportunity for AAC-After-Dark time slot.

Those 5 western schools can then create separation between themselves and the the MWC schools.

The MWC is left with Hawaii, San Jose St, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, UNM. Those 8 can find 2 replacements from among NMSU and the Texas C-USA schools.

What separates the Pac 12, Big 12 and ACC from the AAC? Basically 2 or 3 schools in each conference. Yes, the rest are better than the rest of the AAC, but only marginally. For that matter, drop Nebraska, Penn St., Michigan and Ohio St. and the rest are not a P5 conference. The Big East was going to lose its BCS slot as soon as the contract was over even though they still had Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Rutgers and Louisville.

The P5 are defined by roughly 20 schools who generate the lion's share of the dollars and the lion's share of the top 5 football rankings. All but a handful of the rest are top 65 programs, but the distance from #40 to #80 is not that big.

There is nobody the AAC could add who would make them part of the P6. There's no combination of 10-14 schools that would make them a power conference. All they can do is isolate themselves on the mezzanine.

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

But the ACC---a conference thats made up of major universities along the eastern seaboard---didnt add the school that sits right on the Atlantic coast when they went looking for new members---but, hey---nothing screams "Atlantic Coast" like South Bend Indiana and Louisville Kentucky!

Look---every addition for every conference is battle between quality vs location. There is an obvious reason the AAC jumped over MANY university athletic programs that were located within or adjacent to its footprint in order to add a school like Notre Dame or a Louisville that was going gang busters at the time. The quality and value of those programs trumped the locational advantage of many closer universities.

For the G5---there are only two ways to organize. You can either prioritize location in conference building (like the MAC) or you can emphasize quality like the AAC. It was clear from the get go that AAC geography would be a mess and was never going to be an identifying characteristic or an asset to the conference. At this point---the identity the AAC is shooting for is summed up as "best of the rest". Boise as a "football only" invite is the best way forward based on the options available to the AAC.

(12-22-2020 05:03 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 02:38 PM)Fighting Muskie Wrote:  The big question is would there be enough tv value to justify a true Western Expansion of 5 Mountain/Pacific time zone programs to add to the existing 11? Is that conference closer to the ACC and PAC 12 in value and performance than say the MAC/C-USA/SBC and a weakened MWC?

West: Navy/Wich St, Tulsa, SMU, AFA, BYU, Boise St, Fresno St, San Diego St
East: Houston, Tulane, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, ECU, UCF, USF

West schools get an annual CA trip and Texas every other year; East schools get an annual trip to FL and Texas every other year.

7 game conference schedule for more opportunities to play P5 OOC (divisional opponents only, SMU-Houston can play as an OOC game)

The 5 mountain/pacific schools open up the opportunity for AAC-After-Dark time slot.

Those 5 western schools can then create separation between themselves and the the MWC schools.

The MWC is left with Hawaii, San Jose St, Nevada, UNLV, Utah St, Wyoming, Colorado St, UNM. Those 8 can find 2 replacements from among NMSU and the Texas C-USA schools.

What separates the Pac 12, Big 12 and ACC from the AAC? Basically 2 or 3 schools in each conference. Yes, the rest are better than the rest of the AAC, but only marginally. For that matter, drop Nebraska, Penn St., Michigan and Ohio St. and the rest are not a P5 conference. The Big East was going to lose its BCS slot as soon as the contract was over even though they still had Pitt, Syracuse, West Virginia, Rutgers and Louisville.

The P5 are defined by roughly 20 schools who generate the lion's share of the dollars and the lion's share of the top 5 football rankings. All but a handful of the rest are top 65 programs, but the distance from #40 to #80 is not that big.

That’s a good assessment. Some schools were blessed with good geography and/or made friends with the right programs 100+ years ago.

Banded together, I think this consortium could prove its worth and if some schools emerge from the pack that’ll elevate the rest in terms of respect and value.

(12-22-2020 03:12 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

So UNF is adding FBS football?

(12-22-2020 03:00 PM)esayem Wrote:  Nothing about adding a school in Boise or San Diego screams “stability” for an eastern/central conference. Somebody needs to do some homework because San Diego State is not a popular eastern property. That is not a transcendent brand.

Also, I can’t believe some of the posters here think adding BSU and SDSU is going to somehow guarantee a monopoly on the G5 bowl. Do those teams dominate the G5 bowl bids? I wonder how many southern football teams are going to look forward to those November trips to play on frigid blue turf?

Also, Navy can play Notre Dame in San Diego if they want to make the trip. You know there’s a giant naval base within the AAC footprint, and there just so happens to be a university right down the road?

Good luck!

Stability is not possible. Every single American Conference member would eagerly enter a Thunderdome match if a P5 conference showed the slightest interest in adding the winner.

Nay, the goal is to be in the best conference we can piece together for the next decade.

Cincinnati has been in 5 conferences in the last 30 years. We're like the Michael Scott Paper Company: if our conference falls apart, we'll just start another one. And another one. We've got plenty of new conference names in mind. (Conference Americana! USA Athletic Conference!)