The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

Patterson looks to be the best of the bunch at the moment for sure. Kumah will help. We might need Mayo to perform. Brown will probably have a bigget impact than people assume.

Did I miss seeing Elijah Blue?

Who knows the injury situation? It seems Mayo and Fitzgerald are down. I read Kounta, a young promising OL, hurt his back. Another article said Justinn Richardson had a leg injury. How bad? He is important at safety. Any others? Also I hear our biggest question mark is who can play center.

Not sure who, but there were a ton of low snaps.

(04-14-2019 05:24 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  Who knows the injury situation? It seems Mayo and Fitzgerald are down. I read Kounta, a young promising OL, hurt his back. Another article said Justinn Richardson had a leg injury. How bad? He is important at safety. Any others? Also I hear our biggest question mark is who can play center.

With the departure of Nick Clarke, the center position has been a huge question mark; and snapping is only one part of the equation.

Question;
Have we actually installed a bona fide 3-4 defense and if so who is playing the nose?
I still have a lot of concerns about playing a base 3-4 w/o a legitimate NT, not to mention a quality backup.

(04-16-2019 08:57 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(04-14-2019 05:24 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  Who knows the injury situation? It seems Mayo and Fitzgerald are down. I read Kounta, a young promising OL, hurt his back. Another article said Justinn Richardson had a leg injury. How bad? He is important at safety. Any others? Also I hear our biggest question mark is who can play center.

With the departure of Nick Clarke, the center position has been a huge question mark; and snapping is only one part of the equation.

Question;
Have we actually installed a bona fide 3-4 defense and if so who is playing the nose?
I still have a lot of concerns about playing a base 3-4 w/o a legitimate NT, not to mention a quality backup.

Our base is not a 3-4. We're playing a 4-2-5, that switches between a 4-3, 3-4, 2-5, etc. Much of which is dependent on where the bandit lines up.

(04-16-2019 09:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-16-2019 08:57 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  

(04-14-2019 05:24 PM)CalODUFan Wrote:  Who knows the injury situation? It seems Mayo and Fitzgerald are down. I read Kounta, a young promising OL, hurt his back. Another article said Justinn Richardson had a leg injury. How bad? He is important at safety. Any others? Also I hear our biggest question mark is who can play center.

With the departure of Nick Clarke, the center position has been a huge question mark; and snapping is only one part of the equation.

Question;
Have we actually installed a bona fide 3-4 defense and if so who is playing the nose?
I still have a lot of concerns about playing a base 3-4 w/o a legitimate NT, not to mention a quality backup.

Our base is not a 3-4. We're playing a 4-2-5, that switches between a 4-3, 3-4, 2-5, etc. Much of which is dependent on where the bandit lines up.

That makes more sense.

Back in January when, to much fanfare, it was announced that we would go to a 3-4, I wondered where the personnel would come from, as many of us discussed on here.

I found this:
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html

That was from Bobby saying we would play more 3 man fronts. Someone that turned into our base defense is a 3 man front. Really, the defense is going to be all over the place with several different looks. We will probably make more plays, but there will likely be a lot of breakdowns, at least early.

The bandit role is very interesting. It's a great way to get an athlete on the field without worrying about having your end set the edge.

(04-16-2019 10:04 AM)Gilesfan Wrote:  That was from Bobby saying we would play more 3 man fronts. Someone that turned into our base defense is a 3 man front. Really, the defense is going to be all over the place with several different looks. We will probably make more plays, but there will likely be a lot of breakdowns, at least early.

The bandit role is very interesting. It's a great way to get an athlete on the field without worrying about having your end set the edge.

Actually it was announced and confirmed by BW that we would switch to the 3-4 on more than one occasion. I am puzzled by your response as you even participated in one of the threads.

here: 1/13/2019

Quote:Blackwell has been on campus a couple of weeks and is already in the process of transitioning ODU from a traditional 4-man defensive front to a 3-man line.
ODU is going to that defense for two reasons. First, ODU’s depth on the line is thin. Secondly, having eight defenders drop back in pass protection should help ODU in Conference USA, which is largely a spread offense, passing league.
“Our players are excited about the possibilities of playing a 3-4 defense,” Wilder said. “So is the coaching staff.”

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=211786430

and here: 1/4/2019

Quote:Monarchs will go to a 3-4 alignment in 2019, a switch from 4-2-5. Fits personnel and Blackwell's background. "Our league is a spread, throw-the ball-around league. You've need to have the ability to drop 8 and cover people."

https://csnbbs.com/thread-867708.html

and here: 1/5/2019

Quote:The Monarchs reloaded with junior-college players and will retool the scheme and switch from a 4-2-5 alignment to a 3-4, Wilder said.

https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html


Minium was still playing the 3-4 card as recently as a week ago. 4/10/2019

Quote:Defensively, ODU has gone from a traditional 4-man line to a 3-4 defense that Blackwell used successfully at ECU,

http://www.odusports.com/ViewArticle.dbm...=211799162

The above statements have me very perplexed.

They remind me of the time a caller asked Bobby Wilder if he had plans to run the ball more after the Maryland loss, and he replied "We run the Spread, we don't plan to use the run much." He then mentioned Oregon as a program that influenced his offensive philosophy. That left me scratching my head as Oregon's Spread was a run-first read option.

In the previous post examples, BW and the media repeatedly tout the move to the 3-4, citing Blackwell's experience and success with it at ECU.
This has bothered me since January because I did not see the the specialized players normally associated with the 3-4 defense.
So I did some research and discovered that apparently David Blackwell did NOT run a 3-4 successfully at Jacksonville or ECU.
In fact, at ECU he apparently he dropped the existing 3-4 and installed the 4-2-5 when he got there. Indeed, in his own words, he is partial to the the 4-2-5 base.

Out of necessity at ECU; because of talent deficiencies and the best utilization of players at hand, he modified the 4-2-5 to use a "bandit" to help with setting the edge. This entailed using 3 and even two down linemen at times depending on the situation. However, that was not a 3-4 defense.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/arti...24000.html
https://bonesville.net/2018/01/26/blackw...p-defense/

It seems that David Blackwell has brought this defensive concept with him, and I am very optimistic.
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html
I think he is a great asset to the program. I believe that we will have a real defense (2016 debatable) for the first time in our short history.

What I don't understand is the months of 3-4 rhetoric from both BW and Harry Minium, which is not even close to being accurate - just as BW's characterization of his Spread with the Oregon analogy.

That your HC doesn't always seem to know what is going on is not a good look.

(04-18-2019 10:14 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  The above statements have me very perplexed.

They remind me of the time a caller asked Bobby Wilder if he had plans to run the ball more after the Maryland loss, and he replied "We run the Spread, we don't plan to use the run much." He then mentioned Oregon as a program that influenced his offensive philosophy. That left me scratching my head as Oregon's Spread was a run-first read option.

In the previous post examples, BW and the media repeatedly tout the move to the 3-4, citing Blackwell's experience and success with it at ECU.
This has bothered me since January because I did not see the the specialized players normally associated with the 3-4 defense.
So I did some research and discovered that apparently David Blackwell did NOT run a 3-4 successfully at Jacksonville or ECU.
In fact, at ECU he apparently he dropped the existing 3-4 and installed the 4-2-5 when he got there. Indeed, in his own words, he is partial to the the 4-2-5 base.

Out of necessity at ECU; because of talent deficiencies and the best utilization of players at hand, he modified the 4-2-5 to use a "bandit" to help with setting the edge. This entailed using 3 and even two down linemen at times depending on the situation. However, this was not a 3-4 defense.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/arti...24000.html
https://bonesville.net/2018/01/26/blackw...p-defense/

It seems that David Blackwell has brought this defensive concept with him, and I am very optimistic.
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html
I think he is a great asset to the program. I believe that we will have a real defense (2016 debatable) for the first time in our short history.

What I don't understand is the months of 3-4 rhetoric from both BW and Harry Minium, which is not even close to being accurate - just as BW's characterization of his Spread with the Oregon analogy.

That your HC doesn't always seem to know what is going on is not a good look.

Hope Im wrong, but I'm not sure we have the personnel for a "real defense" this year, but if we can keep Blackwell around a few years we should begin to see some serious improvement... I hope.

(04-18-2019 10:14 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  The above statements have me very perplexed.

They remind me of the time a caller asked Bobby Wilder if he had plans to run the ball more after the Maryland loss, and he replied "We run the Spread, we don't plan to use the run much." He then mentioned Oregon as a program that influenced his offensive philosophy. That left me scratching my head as Oregon's Spread was a run-first read option.

In the previous post examples, BW and the media repeatedly tout the move to the 3-4, citing Blackwell's experience and success with it at ECU.
This has bothered me since January because I did not see the the specialized players normally associated with the 3-4 defense.
So I did some research and discovered that apparently David Blackwell did NOT run a 3-4 successfully at Jacksonville or ECU.
In fact, at ECU he apparently he dropped the existing 3-4 and installed the 4-2-5 when he got there. Indeed, in his own words, he is partial to the the 4-2-5 base.

Out of necessity at ECU; because of talent deficiencies and the best utilization of players at hand, he modified the 4-2-5 to use a "bandit" to help with setting the edge. This entailed using 3 and even two down linemen at times depending on the situation. However, that was not a 3-4 defense.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/arti...24000.html
https://bonesville.net/2018/01/26/blackw...p-defense/

It seems that David Blackwell has brought this defensive concept with him, and I am very optimistic.
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html
I think he is a great asset to the program. I believe that we will have a real defense (2016 debatable) for the first time in our short history.

What I don't understand is the months of 3-4 rhetoric from both BW and Harry Minium, which is not even close to being accurate - just as BW's characterization of his Spread with the Oregon analogy.

That your HC doesn't always seem to know what is going on is not a good look.

If this is true, it's a terrible comment made by BW. Please tell me he just made a mistake and word vomited.

(04-18-2019 12:58 PM)757ODU Wrote:  

(04-18-2019 10:14 AM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  The above statements have me very perplexed.

They remind me of the time a caller asked Bobby Wilder if he had plans to run the ball more after the Maryland loss, and he replied "We run the Spread, we don't plan to use the run much." He then mentioned Oregon as a program that influenced his offensive philosophy. That left me scratching my head as Oregon's Spread was a run-first read option.

In the previous post examples, BW and the media repeatedly tout the move to the 3-4, citing Blackwell's experience and success with it at ECU.
This has bothered me since January because I did not see the the specialized players normally associated with the 3-4 defense.
So I did some research and discovered that apparently David Blackwell did NOT run a 3-4 successfully at Jacksonville or ECU.
In fact, at ECU he apparently he dropped the existing 3-4 and installed the 4-2-5 when he got there. Indeed, in his own words, he is partial to the the 4-2-5 base.

Out of necessity at ECU; because of talent deficiencies and the best utilization of players at hand, he modified the 4-2-5 to use a "bandit" to help with setting the edge. This entailed using 3 and even two down linemen at times depending on the situation. However, that was not a 3-4 defense.

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/arti...24000.html
https://bonesville.net/2018/01/26/blackw...p-defense/

It seems that David Blackwell has brought this defensive concept with him, and I am very optimistic.
https://www.dailypress.com/sports/dp-spt...story.html
I think he is a great asset to the program. I believe that we will have a real defense (2016 debatable) for the first time in our short history.

What I don't understand is the months of 3-4 rhetoric from both BW and Harry Minium, which is not even close to being accurate - just as BW's characterization of his Spread with the Oregon analogy.

That your HC doesn't always seem to know what is going on is not a good look.

If this is true, it's a terrible comment made by BW. Please tell me he just made a mistake and word vomited.

Oh, it's true.
Whether it was word vomit, calculated deception, true ignorance of the offense, or just a misunderstanding of the question I cannot say.
There was a discussion on here about it in 2013, including a possible explanation that he had confused the the Oregon spread with the Air Raid Spread of Mike Leach.
Indeed, for all intents and purposes, the Air Raid Spread was what we ran during the Heinicke era, although at the time I never heard it referred to as such.

I find the more recent mis-characterizations of our "new" defense far more disturbing than a one time heat-of-the-moment comment about the offense.
The entirely inaccurate representation of David Blackwell and the "new" scheme was repeated many times for more than four months.

The timing of Wilder's comments and the press releases from the beginning of January until mid April would seem to serve no strategic purpose as to opponent deception or in recruiting.

One might conclude that BW has no clue as to football defenses and/or, and I know how ridiculous this sounds on the surface, that he was not directly involved in the David Blackwell hire.

Wilder has consistently said this offseason be wants a flexible defense. There is no need for anyone to label it because its going to look different play to play.

“Our players are excited about the possibilities of playing a 3-4 defense,” Wilder said. “It gives you so much flexibility. We can shift into a 4-man line, and then blitz, or we can drop eight guys back. There are so many things you can do.”

The “4th” DL is the bandit that might rush the passer one down or may cover the flats in zone or man up vs a RB. They will move him all around to try to confuse the offense.

(04-20-2019 03:15 PM)Gilesfan Wrote:  Wilder has consistently said this offseason be wants a flexible defense. There is no need for anyone to label it because its going to look different play to play.

“Our players are excited about the possibilities of playing a 3-4 defense,” Wilder said. “It gives you so much flexibility. We can shift into a 4-man line, and then blitz, or we can drop eight guys back. There are so many things you can do.”

The “4th” DL is the bandit that might rush the passer one down or may cover the flats in zone or man up vs a RB. They will move him all around to try to confuse the offense.

Yes indeed.

The " We can shift into a 4-man line, and then blitz, or we can drop eight guys back" can apply to almost any defense.
That is NOT a 3-4 defense by any accepted definition.
That is Blackwell's version of a 4-2-5, and Blackwell has said as much, and that is my point

As a friend reminded me in PM, these technical debates are all moot if we cannot win in the trenches.